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Posted: 9/2/2005 4:16:23 PM EDT
with all the different manufacturers out there who in your opinion makes the best lower?thanks to all who respond
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:30:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:03:38 PM EDT
Mil-Spec Mfg:

Colt
Lewis Machine & Tool Co. (LMT)
Stag Arms/ CMT

Non Mil-Spec Mfg:

Armalite
Bushmaster
RRA

­There are other good brands than what I listed.

Avoid Hesse and Vulcan.


Just my dos centavos, YMMV.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:21:40 PM EDT
bushmaster lowers have the lower shelf which would accept a rdias if you ever come up with the money and decide to get one.

all are good basically
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:22:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 5:23:00 PM EDT by eklikwhoa]

Originally Posted By Alpha-Romeo3:
Mil-Spec Mfg:

Colt




Avoid Hesse and Vulcan.


Just my dos centavos, YMMV.



i have never seen mil-spec anything with large pivot pins and trigger/hammer pins.

bu­t then again what is mil-spec
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:54:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By Alpha-Romeo3:
Mil-Spec Mfg:

Colt




Avoid Hesse and Vulcan.


Just my dos centavos, YMMV.



i have never seen mil-spec anything with large pivot pins and trigger/hammer pins.

bu­t then again what is mil-spec



+1

And what about their web that is left in there on their new rifles and the sear block thingy on their older ones.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:41:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By Alpha-Romeo3:
Mil-Spec Mfg:

Colt




Avoid Hesse and Vulcan.


Just my dos centavos, YMMV.



i have never seen mil-spec anything with large pivot pins and trigger/hammer pins.

but then again what is mil-spec



+1

And what about their web that is left in there on their new rifles and the sear block thingy on their older ones.

WIZZO


Mil-Spec is:

Mil-Spec is military specifications that the suppliers agree to manufacture the products they are going to sell to the military.

These includes material, process, dimensional and quality standard specifications.

Materials like 4150 alloy steel for the barrel instead of 4140 alloy. Finish materials like parkerizing and anodizing are specified of which suppliers are qualified. Rockwell hardness and finish smoothness values.

Process in machining, forging, heat treating, drilling, cutting, fasteners, molding and finish.

Dimensional examples are like the 1/7 twist rate, M4 feedramps dimensions and on carbines, buffer tube diameter which commercial brands stocks will not fit it.

Quality standards like 100% inspection not by random or batches and military suppliers have to perform ISO 9001-2000 quality standards. The ISO standards is at least only one third of the normal engineering drawing tolerance or better.

You won't feel any of that when shooting a Mil-Spec and a commercial brands but the quality is built in. Most civilian customers won't even wear out both Mil-Spec and commercial brands in their lifetime.

Even foreign manufacturers like in China makes Mil-Spec and commercial brands of AK-47. The Mil-Spec Poly Technologies brand uses chrome bores, gas piston and BCG. Heat treats critical parts and maintains smaller dimensional variation. The commercial brand Norinco don't have those features in their rifles.

It's up to the individual buyers what rifle they want and buy what they want, to each his own.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:43:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 8:43:26 PM EDT by theshootersden]

Originally Posted By Alpha-Romeo3:
Mil-Spec Mfg:

Colt
Lewis Machine & Tool Co. (LMT)
Stag Arms/ CMT

Non Mil-Spec Mfg:

Armalite
Bushmaster
RRA

­There are other good brands than what I listed.

Avoid Hesse and Vulcan.


Just my dos centavos, YMMV.



What?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:58:35 PM EDT
Alpha-Romeo3,

I understand the whole barrel construction, military requirement stuff.

Colt makes lowers that are further out of "spec" (as in big FCG pins and un-machined web in the 6920 lowers).

Stag, bushy, etc., etc., machine most of the interior around the sear-area away, some deeper than others (think RDIAS-ready), and they use the mil-spec FCG pins.

Technically speaking, Colt purposefully did this. Who else has a proprietary FCG pin size?

That's what I was inferring above. It had nothing to do with barrels, as reddot223 didn't ask about barrels.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 10:06:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 10:08:04 PM EDT by Alpha-Romeo3]

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:
Alpha-Romeo3,

I understand the whole barrel construction, military requirement stuff.

Colt makes lowers that are further out of "spec" (as in big FCG pins and un-machined web in the 6920 lowers).

Stag, bushy, etc., etc., machine most of the interior around the sear-area away, some deeper than others (think RDIAS-ready), and they use the mil-spec FCG pins.

Technically speaking, Colt purposefully did this. Who else has a proprietary FCG pin size?

That's what I was inferring above. It had nothing to do with barrels, as reddot223 didn't ask about barrels.

WIZZO


The author of this post asked about what are our opinions in brands of lowers.

I answered him my opinion on what brands I would recommend.

eklikwhoa also answered him but also questioned me on Mil-Spec and Colt and you also added your comment on sear blocks.

So I answered both of you about what is his Mil-Spec question and that also involves the rest of the rifle, not just the receivers.

You guys should ask the poster if he prefers a lower that are RDIAS or small pin FCG compatible.

Nobody knows but him, we don't know if he likes those features or not.

Colt is not perfect because of their wrong PC policies but it does not make their products weaker (maybe just less desirable) because they deviate a little from the military standards.

Next time please answer the question about the thread and ask the poster if he likes certain features directly so we won't get out of topic again.

Sorry if you got caught in my reply because when you quoted me and eklikwhoa you will be included in my reply.

AR3
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:19:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Alpha-Romeo3:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:
Alpha-Romeo3,

I understand the whole barrel construction, military requirement stuff.

Colt makes lowers that are further out of "spec" (as in big FCG pins and un-machined web in the 6920 lowers).

Stag, bushy, etc., etc., machine most of the interior around the sear-area away, some deeper than others (think RDIAS-ready), and they use the mil-spec FCG pins.

Technically speaking, Colt purposefully did this. Who else has a proprietary FCG pin size?

That's what I was inferring above. It had nothing to do with barrels, as reddot223 didn't ask about barrels.

WIZZO


The author of this post asked about what are our opinions in brands of lowers.

I answered him my opinion on what brands I would recommend.

eklikwhoa also answered him but also questioned me on Mil-Spec and Colt and you also added your comment on sear blocks.

So I answered both of you about what is his Mil-Spec question and that also involves the rest of the rifle, not just the receivers.

You guys should ask the poster if he prefers a lower that are RDIAS or small pin FCG compatible.

Nobody knows but him, we don't know if he likes those features or not.

Colt is not perfect because of their wrong PC policies but it does not make their products weaker (maybe just less desirable) because they deviate a little from the military standards.

Next time please answer the question about the thread and ask the poster if he likes certain features directly so we won't get out of topic again.

Sorry if you got caught in my reply because when you quoted me and eklikwhoa you will be included in my reply.

AR3





i feel that the colt lowers with the bigger hammer/trigger pins along with the pivot pin would make it less desirable/not best.

for one they are not as versatile as the std. size parts since only big pin will work with big pin and its more trouble/work to make it work. i.e. would make swapping uppers more of a hassle.

second the larger hammer/trigger pins have a much smaller market with aftermarket triggers or even replacements since again only big pin setups will work which are harder to come by or leaving colt the only place to look for replacements.

third, lowers with the sear block would limit your choices with aftermarket triggers along with the option of future rdias.

just my opinion why colt is not "the best" choice.

but i agree that colt is of quality as long as they come with std parts.



but if you wanted to stay on topic you wouldnt have put the non-milspec milspec stuff since a lower is a lower and the best ones are the ones that work.

and you stating that the A,B,R is not mil-spec would stray from the topic since all lowers mention would work and large pins imo is not something i would title as mil-spec, whatever that means nowadays.

Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:47:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By Alpha-Romeo3:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:
Alpha-Romeo3,

I understand the whole barrel construction, military requirement stuff.

Colt makes lowers that are further out of "spec" (as in big FCG pins and un-machined web in the 6920 lowers).

Stag, bushy, etc., etc., machine most of the interior around the sear-area away, some deeper than others (think RDIAS-ready), and they use the mil-spec FCG pins.

Technically speaking, Colt purposefully did this. Who else has a proprietary FCG pin size?

That's what I was inferring above. It had nothing to do with barrels, as reddot223 didn't ask about barrels.

WIZZO


The author of this post asked about what are our opinions in brands of lowers.

I answered him my opinion on what brands I would recommend.

eklikwhoa also answered him but also questioned me on Mil-Spec and Colt and you also added your comment on sear blocks.

So I answered both of you about what is his Mil-Spec question and that also involves the rest of the rifle, not just the receivers.

You guys should ask the poster if he prefers a lower that are RDIAS or small pin FCG compatible.

Nobody knows but him, we don't know if he likes those features or not.

Colt is not perfect because of their wrong PC policies but it does not make their products weaker (maybe just less desirable) because they deviate a little from the military standards.

Next time please answer the question about the thread and ask the poster if he likes certain features directly so we won't get out of topic again.

Sorry if you got caught in my reply because when you quoted me and eklikwhoa you will be included in my reply.

AR3





i feel that the colt lowers with the bigger hammer/trigger pins along with the pivot pin would make it less desirable/not best.

for one they are not as versatile as the std. size parts since only big pin will work with big pin and its more trouble/work to make it work. i.e. would make swapping uppers more of a hassle.

second the larger hammer/trigger pins have a much smaller market with aftermarket triggers or even replacements since again only big pin setups will work which are harder to come by or leaving colt the only place to look for replacements.

third, lowers with the sear block would limit your choices with aftermarket triggers along with the option of future rdias.

just my opinion why colt is not "the best" choice.

but i agree that colt is of quality as long as they come with std parts.



but if you wanted to stay on topic you wouldnt have put the non-milspec milspec stuff since a lower is a lower and the best ones are the ones that work.

and you stating that the A,B,R is not mil-spec would stray from the topic since all lowers mention would work and large pins imo is not something i would title as mil-spec, whatever that means nowadays.



Note: This will be my last reply to this thread.

I acknowlege your opinions about Colt, it might not be the best choice for a newbie but it's the top choice of carbine combat instructors, peace officers and civilians that wanted to get one of the top brand quality equipment.

Colt had made only a few rare A2 lowers that have standard M16 pivot and FCG pins, they're a collectors item, expensive and hard to find.

The real ones are the M16s which some are available for a price and the rest are serving in the sand box.

I was always on topic and suggested military supplier brands and commercial brands.

Mil-Spec just means the products are manufactured in a more stringent military quality standards.

This thread turned out to be a Colt and military supplier brands bashing. I'm suprised with you guys, I thought that you were more open minded than that.

I dare you, get a 6920 and try it out, you won't go back. (no offense intended)



reddot223,

Cl­ear as mud? If you would like to find out what brands have the most problems, go to our troubleshooting forum and see for yourself so you could make a good decision on which brand you want to buy.


Troubleshooting forum link


Later,

AR3
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:11:33 AM EDT

Alpha-Romeo3


by no means did i intend to start a piss war with you i was just stating my opinion on why some colts should not be conisdered the best.

every manu. has their flukes and agree that some more than others.


there are plenty of manu that have good built lowers and though some are not up to par there are others that are.

there are also other manu. that make "mil-spec" buffer tubes.

i own a 6450 and it has std. pins in it and i love it
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 9:33:34 AM EDT
thanks for all the input guys...what i was thinking is building a good rifle in case things go bad. mostly to be used for plinking but sturdy enough for ?........ what excatly is a rdias?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 9:52:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By reddot223:
thanks for all the input guys...what i was thinking is building a good rifle in case things go bad. mostly to be used for plinking but sturdy enough for ?........ what exactly is a rdias?



A RDIAS is - registered drop in auto sear
Can't use one on any of the "post-ban/no-ban" Colts. That is if you want one anyways.

The only thing that keeps me from buying another Colt is the large trigger/hammer pins. It jsut pisses me off to no end that I would need to keep a seperate set of spares just for Colt.

Any brand makes a fairly good lower, Bushy, RRA, Stag, Ameetec, CMT, LMT and any others out there...

I personally have a Colt SporterII, Colt Match Target, Ameetec, Bushy and a DPMS. I like my DPMS the best for the value. ($99)

Enjoy and shoot 'em up!
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:08:59 PM EDT
i like LMT everyone like CMT
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