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Posted: 12/12/2005 1:29:24 PM EDT
[#1]
If you are worried about ballistic performance, then you should choose something bigger than a poodle shooter.
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Posted: 12/12/2005 1:37:01 PM EDT
[#2]
A 10.5" Barrel with 55 grain ammo should have around 35-45 yards of fragmentation, a 11.5 inch should have a little more, around 45-60 yards( both from memory). That is more than enough for close combat, its when you shoot over this that terminal ballistics become a problem. I would prefer a 14.5" barrel(and 75 or 77 grain ammo) but it is not as compact as the 10 or 11" barrels, but it does have a significant edge in fragmentation range. IIRC the fragmentation floor 55 grain ammo is between 2700 FPS and 2500fps, so just check the velocity of the shorter barrels against that and it should give you a good Idea as I don't have the velocity chart close at hand. The 10.5 or 11.5 Barrels is not a good choice for over CQC range, and the 14.5 is much better, especially with 75/77 grain OTMs(around 2200 FPS frag range) at all ranges, but size is a factor. Both lengths have their place, as 14.5 is a good compromise between a 10.5"(short) and a 20(long range)
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Posted: 12/12/2005 9:33:10 PM EDT
[#3]
sounds like your a man of experience, why dont you tell us about your real world testing! and what would you use since your not fancy on the "poodle shooter" |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 9:34:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks 223, definitly the 77gr for me! |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 9:37:36 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 12/12/2005 9:39:20 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 12/12/2005 9:49:42 PM EDT
[#7]
I am wondering about this too.
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Posted: 12/12/2005 9:51:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Apparently not.  BTW, SD, if you have the velocity and ballistic co-efficient of the round you want to know about (M193 has a BC of .243, IIRC) you can go HERE and "Define Your Own Bullet" and set the velocity and zeroing distance, etc. Very interesting tool to play with. WIZZO |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 11:11:51 PM EDT
[#9]
uh oh
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Posted: 12/12/2005 11:23:33 PM EDT
[#10]
GO DYNAMIC!
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Posted: 12/13/2005 1:06:16 AM EDT
[#11]
WAIT A MINUTE!!! THERE'S A POODLE SHOOTING VIDEO?????????????????
This I have to see!!!! ( loves dogs, hates poodles ) |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 2:17:38 AM EDT
[#12]
oh boy...
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Posted: 12/13/2005 3:17:01 AM EDT
[#13]
The velocity/fragmentation threshold fo MK262 or 5.56 pressure TAP from an 11.5" barrel exceeds 100 yards. It is less than 100 yards for a 10.25" barrel I beleieve in the 70-75 yard range. Cant remember exactly off the top of my head.
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Posted: 12/13/2005 3:36:46 AM EDT
[#14]
as DevL pointed out the "fragmentation threshold" varies with the ammo it is not a constant related to the velocity.
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Posted: 12/13/2005 4:17:17 AM EDT
[#15]
BTW, does anyone remember the minimum velocity required for MK262 Mod1 to fragment?
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Posted: 12/13/2005 5:03:11 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 12/13/2005 5:11:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Oh damn, this could be fun to watch. BTW, SD- did you get the MER for point targets on your "poodle shooter" from Crane? I'll do some scratching around, but I seem to remember that with the really short bbls firing M193 or M855 that the round does not reach the frag threshold at any point. Of course, the Mk262 changes that. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 10:39:57 AM EDT
[#18]
thanks Bro awsome help |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 10:41:34 AM EDT
[#19]
Havent heard back yet, I have the Navy guys here looking into it, Ill let you know when I here something Thanks |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 10:59:55 AM EDT
[#20]
The guys I was checking with had to go someplace, so I'm not going to be getting any real world answers for awhile. Sorry, I'll dig a little more out of curiosity.
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Posted: 12/15/2005 11:08:56 AM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 12/15/2005 11:23:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Or he has and is just showing everyone what we already know about him. C4 |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 11:35:07 AM EDT
[#23]
That wasn't very nice, Grant. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 11:36:52 AM EDT
[#24]
What I can I say. I call it like I see it. SD has served his country and made the world a safer place for all of us. He doesn't deserve a snide comment from ANYONE. C4 |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 11:38:01 AM EDT
[#25]
So THAT is what it feels like to step on your dick with golf shoes..... I almost feel bad for you Dave. Good job though! 
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Posted: 12/15/2005 11:39:42 AM EDT
[#26]
Watching someone try to insult Travis or call him out on his shooting ability is pretty funny...
 I would expect anyone that tries and is proven wrong by the link to the video to go "Oh F*ck!! That was YOU!?!?!?  " and then apologize profusely!
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Posted: 12/15/2005 11:41:44 AM EDT
[#27]
;
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Posted: 12/15/2005 11:48:34 AM EDT
[#28]
funniest shit I've read all day. Thanks!
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Posted: 12/15/2005 11:59:58 AM EDT
[#29]
No prob. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 12:50:53 PM EDT
[#30]
No, Grant is right. Some people like to pretend they are the almighty firearms god, when they aren't. Plus, Hineline is a dildo. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 12:53:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Thanks Steve. Now I have to explain to purchasing why I need a new keyboard because mine is covered in coffee and snot. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 1:19:23 PM EDT
[#32]
I know. I was being sarcastic. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 1:23:49 PM EDT
[#33]
I havn't been here that long.. but reading the posts of his I have run acrossed, I concur. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 1:37:28 PM EDT
[#34]
Sorry, I missed the scoop here, is SD the guy in the vid?
I'm assuming so- Oh man that shits funny. Mr "if you don't have a full auto you're a homo" himself just got bitch slapped! 
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Posted: 12/15/2005 1:42:38 PM EDT
[#35]
The list of people here with actual video of them in combat is fairly short to say the least, and this guy questions the credibility of one of them...too funny.
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Posted: 12/15/2005 1:47:57 PM EDT
[#36]
tagged because I want to see the video when I get home.
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Posted: 12/15/2005 1:50:36 PM EDT
[#37]
That's our very own Travis. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 2:05:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Apparently so ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=260777
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Posted: 12/15/2005 2:11:03 PM EDT
[#39]
outstanding....
wait wait wait, didn't Hineline used to be a mod? Well, SD must be full of it then... 
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Posted: 12/15/2005 2:17:11 PM EDT
[#40]
still is, M16/Full Auto section
ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=14 |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 2:21:05 PM EDT
[#41]
ah, well that makes it even worse then...
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Posted: 12/15/2005 2:23:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Damn, I need to pick up some 75 or 77gr. ammo.
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Posted: 12/15/2005 4:31:33 PM EDT
[#43]
nope, normal 
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Posted: 12/15/2005 4:49:49 PM EDT
[#44]
I have no idea what any of you are talking about. My response to the original poster is if you are putting thought into whether or not the gun you have looses effectiveness because the barrel might be 3-4 inches different in length one way or another then the easy fix is to buy a bigger gun.
.223 is barely adequat for any sized animal hunting. It's for killing poodles and other small vermin. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 4:51:34 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 12/15/2005 5:19:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Would you classify Terrorist as small vermin? Cause I hear it works effectively on them. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 5:34:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Just as an FYI, there is NO MAGIC BULLET. I can shoot you dead with a .22 just as I can with a 308. It is 100% about shot placement. C4 |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 5:50:18 PM EDT
[#48]
hahah this just keeps getting better and better.
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Posted: 12/15/2005 5:59:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Does that video have audio? I couldn't hear nuthin...
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Posted: 12/15/2005 6:09:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Pulling this from memory, but we are working on short barreled stuff now...
Your 55gr out of a 10.5 would be around 1600fps at 300yds (this is a swag) and far below what is considered a leathal round. The statement you quoted about the short barrel being no more effective at distances of normal social intercourse, than at a football field is based mostly on ME figures I would bet, I know that the ME of the 10.5 is about what the rifle is just past a hundred yards (or ballpark numbers anyway, we used to say that to make the XM177 they took an M16 and cut off a hundred yards. As you know, the real drag of these guns is using them in a confined space -- some recent lessons learned are saying that even the M4 is not suitable for shootouts in steel boxes! But we are talking CQB, not MOUT... really CQ battle. There is a lot of discussion going on about the short barrels, I am all about 16" as the minimum carbine length -- IM me when you get a chance.... |
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