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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/13/2005 9:32:05 PM EDT
and the cons?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:34:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 9:36:07 PM EDT by eye_spy]
WELCOME!

Pros:

Stability
Accuracy (depends on who you ask)
Takes longer to heat up

Cons:

HEAVY!!!
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:35:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 9:37:05 PM EDT by Darkest2000]
the barrel won't bend downward if you shoot a lot of ammo.

Cons: Heavy, can't mount M203 grenade launcher...
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:39:44 PM EDT
[crickets chirping]
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:46:22 PM EDT
It is an additional way to exercise...
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:52:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eye_spy:
Cons:

HEAVY!!!



My AR with 20" HBAR is still lighter than most of my other rifles, so I really don't think the weight thing is that big an issue. I would bet that most of us around here are big, strong, healthy dudes, so why should we complain about a couple extra pounds in a rifle?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:57:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:

Originally Posted By eye_spy:
Cons:

HEAVY!!!



My AR with 20" HBAR is still lighter than most of my other rifles, so I really don't think the weight thing is that big an issue. I would bet that most of us around here are big, strong, healthy dudes, so why should we complain about a couple extra pounds in a rifle?



Hump it around enough at the ready position and you'll notice a difference. There's a considerable difference between my Colt MT and an issued A2.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:05:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:

Originally Posted By eye_spy:
Cons:

HEAVY!!!



My AR with 20" HBAR is still lighter than most of my other rifles, so I really don't think the weight thing is that big an issue. I would bet that most of us around here are big, strong, healthy dudes, so why should we complain about a couple extra pounds in a rifle?




me = 5'4 - 145 pounds
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:12:28 PM EDT
Weight for target shooting, as in CMP. Back when the A2 made its debut, the A1 was a permitted service rifle but its weight, or actually lack of weight, was one of the weak points. But still, some people tried to make it work at the 600 yard mark by adding weights internally and custom barreling to allow use of heavy bullets. The major problem using it for all positions and yardages (Standing 200, sitting rapid 200, prone rapid 300 and prone 600) was the elevation adjustment.

When the A2 came out, it ushered in faster twist barrels that could stabilize 80 grain custom bullets but the barrels had a tendenacy to shift POI from sling tension. The first remedy was the heavy barrel as this also added weight, something valuable for the standing and sitting postions. Soon enough, free float tubes which preserved the handguards were developed and rules modified allowing front sling point to move to this tube. And then the service rifle scores started to rise dramatically. The issue sights were good enough for all but the top shooters, especially when fitted with a fine adjustment detent wheel. All one needed for high master classification (other than skill and practice) was a good barrel, a float tube and a fine elevation wheel. About 1/4 the cost of the custom work needed on an M1 or M1A.

Colt tries to capitalize on this and introduces the HBAR. Sure, the barrel is a bit better than the standard barrel but they are nothing compared to a Kreiger/Hart/Pac Nor/Douglass match offering.

For the armchair warrior/chair borne ranger/mall ninja, they offer nothing but weight.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:20:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
For the armchair warrior/chair borne ranger/mall ninja, they offer nothing but weight.



Yeup, I'm nothing but a armchair warrior/chairborne ranger/mall ninja
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:48:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Darkest2000:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
For the armchair warrior/chair borne ranger/mall ninja, they offer nothing but weight.



Yeup, I'm nothing but a armchair warrior/chairborne ranger/mall ninja



If it fits...you did post something about "the barrel won't bend down if you fire lots of rounds"...funny how that never was a problem for any rifle I used/saw/touched back when I was on active duty. And we fired multiple magazines from A1s on full auto. To the point of rupturing the gas tube on one. But never did the barrel droop from the heat.

FYI, the front part of the A2 barrel was enlarged to prevent damage from bayonet use. Or using it to spring banding straps etc. You know about grunts...if they cannot break it, they will piss on it to make it rust. Like raccoons in a china closet, whatever they don't break, they will crap on.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:56:44 PM EDT

You know about grunts...if they cannot break it, they will piss on it to make it rust. Like raccoons in a china closet, whatever they don't break, they will crap on.




Truer words....
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:09:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 11:15:24 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
It can even out muscle tone in your off-hand forearm.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:44:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Darkest2000:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
For the armchair warrior/chair borne ranger/mall ninja, they offer nothing but weight.



Yeup, I'm nothing but a armchair warrior/chairborne ranger/mall ninja



If it fits...you did post something about "the barrel won't bend down if you fire lots of rounds"...



It was a joke, but I guess some people lack the ability to differentiate. I even put a smiley after it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 12:43:37 AM EDT
Reduces muzzle rise and vibration?

If you live in MD you can buy an HBAR AR at some shops without a waiting period.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:26:58 AM EDT
HBARS are more accurate because they are stiffer, the extra diameter reduces the effects of the stress in the steel and the piont of impact stays consistent longer as the barrel heats up slower. The extra weight assists in stability and you stay on target in rapid fire. In the standing offhand position the rifle hangs better and again is more stable.

The downside is the extra weight if the gun is not to be used in competition. On a 20" the barrel will nose dive on you and not be balanced properly unless even more weight is added to the stock. The minimum weight for a properly balanced 20" HBAR is 12lbs, this is considered light, 13 is average, 17lbs. is heavy. You would not want to take this into combat or carry it for long but it does have its purpose.

On a 14 1/2 to 16" rifle, a HBAR is not needed but would heat up slower and be more accurate longer then a standard barrel or Gov. profile. It also will be heavier, its a matter of personal opinion but the farther and longer you carry it, the more one sided the opinion.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:40:54 PM EDT
I prefer HBARs, and don't mind the extra weight.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:49:26 PM EDT
if you have an HBAR and its a 6920 you can pay an extra $1500, so much for the advantages.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:49:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:

Originally Posted By eye_spy:
Cons:

HEAVY!!!



My AR with 20" HBAR is still lighter than most of my other rifles, so I really don't think the weight thing is that big an issue. I would bet that most of us around here are big, strong, healthy dudes, so why should we complain about a couple extra pounds in a rifle?



Either 1.) you are only using it to shoot off bags at the range or 2.) dont shoot it. Because my heavy barreled plain A3 ways a ton compared to my other rifles. My AK even feels lighter fully loaded.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:08:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:

Originally Posted By eye_spy:
Cons:

HEAVY!!!



My AR with 20" HBAR is still lighter than most of my other rifles, so I really don't think the weight thing is that big an issue. I would bet that most of us around here are big, strong, healthy dudes, so why should we complain about a couple extra pounds in a rifle?



Either 1.) you are only using it to shoot off bags at the range or 2.) dont shoot it. Because my heavy barreled plain A3 ways a ton compared to my other rifles. My AK even feels lighter fully loaded.



I shoot my 20" a2 HBAR offhand, and it feels fine. The weight has never bothered me one bit. And I'm not all big and muscle-like either. (5'11" 140 Lbs)
Having never shot anything lighter, I don't know the difference. Maybe if I had to carry it for miles on end...then I'd be crying like a little bitch.

That said, if you can't handle the weight of an HBAR for range or plinking, man up and quit being such a pussy.

Sorry for any harsh words,
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:21:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RRA-A2:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:

Originally Posted By eye_spy:
Cons:

HEAVY!!!



My AR with 20" HBAR is still lighter than most of my other rifles, so I really don't think the weight thing is that big an issue. I would bet that most of us around here are big, strong, healthy dudes, so why should we complain about a couple extra pounds in a rifle?



Either 1.) you are only using it to shoot off bags at the range or 2.) dont shoot it. Because my heavy barreled plain A3 ways a ton compared to my other rifles. My AK even feels lighter fully loaded.



I shoot my 20" a2 HBAR offhand, and it feels fine. The weight has never bothered me one bit. And I'm not all big and muscle-like either. (5'11" 140 Lbs)
Having never shot anything lighter, I don't know the difference. Maybe if I had to carry it for miles on end...then I'd be crying like a little bitch.

That said, if you can't handle the weight of an HBAR for range or plinking, man up and quit being such a pussy.

Sorry for any harsh words,



It has nothing to do with being a pussy or not. Weight is weight. And anyone who says its feels just like any other rifle, well you know the answer to that. Like I said, you must use it for the range (which you admitted to). You would feel the weight if you didnt just have to pick it up and shoot for 30 rounds then put it down. I can lift 400 pounds of my chest one time. Do I think its light just because I can do it once? Do I think I have mastered it because I can do it once? Hell no. Its heavy regardless of if you can hold it or not.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:13:56 PM EDT
I was told the difference between HBAR and govt. profile in the 16" versions was only 1/2 pound.

Is this correct? If so, I can't see it being a big deal either.

Sean
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:16:12 PM EDT
Won't bend when you're opening those pesky ammo crates with your bayonet attatched
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:22:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
It can even out muscle tone in your off-hand forearm.



doesn't work for me cause I shoot lefty...my right arm = popeye-like
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:29:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 8:31:52 PM EDT by Hired_Gun]
rigid
consistant
lower recoil
thermal resistance
strength

No real downers in an HBAR carbine IMHO

The only grip is a few ounces extra to heft. With rifles though are talking a full pound weight difference

Even Colt added the Socom barrel which is beefier than the profiled barrel they use to have
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:43:38 PM EDT
I used to have a HBAR but sold it.

There was not much difference in accuracy with my other 20" Gov't profiled rifle.

The HBAR's balance and weight is better for target shooting like in CMP competition.

I'm going to get another HBAR later on but with a good quality match barrel and FF handguards.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:49:00 PM EDT
It's cheaper ... ... for the maker
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