Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 1/1/2003 7:02:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/2/2003 10:29:06 AM EST by Stottman]
I never really look at www.subguns.com, but ended up fiding out that someone will be making some reproductions of the very early CAR-15 stock:



www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=1404&query=retrieval

Thought that some might find it intresting.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 8:52:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2003 8:53:42 PM EST by NYPatriot]
Stottman, thanks for the heads up. Just an observation... in order to maximize the number of hits on this very interesting & worthwhile thread, you might want to change the title to something like "very early CAR-15 buttstock repos for sale."
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 9:20:23 PM EST
Real cool! but no shorty triangular handguards available though [:(] (Right?)
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 10:25:01 PM EST
Skammy, contact Ken Drasen at Hay River Trading about shorty triangular handguards. E-mail: hrtco@chibardun.net (715)357-6054
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 6:34:55 AM EST
When you say [i]early[/i] you mean [i]early[/i]! This design predates the XM177 and XM177E1. -- Chuck
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 9:37:09 AM EST
Now that is an odd little beast. The only place I've seen that model is in museums and books; but the lower appears to be an A2 lower (reinforced around the buffer tube and a mag fence) instead of the original lower. Either somebody went through a whole lot of trouble to create an authentic reproduction of the original or someone took an incredibly rare rifle and then parted out the upper.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 10:13:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/2/2003 11:07:54 AM EST by Stottman]
If you look on the ad, the guy mentions that he also offers reproduction short handguards and moderators. Everything on their is a reproduction I am sure. The real ones are super rare. Also, I just looked in the book "the black rifle" by R.Blake Stevens. The one pic of the real thing on page 229 shows a slabside lower with a foward assist upper (A1 of course). Somewhere else in the book, their is a pic of one without the moderator, just a 3 prong flash hider. Seems like a perfect SBR project for a spare SP1 rifle.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 11:35:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Chuck: When you say [i]early[/i] you mean [i]early[/i]! This design predates the XM177 and XM177E1. -- Chuck
View Quote
Yep, the Colt Model 07 carbine. In addition to The Black Rifle, good pictures of the carbine can be found in Kevin Dockery´s: Special Warfare, Special Weapons book concerning SEAL small arms.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 4:49:30 PM EST
The lower in the photo is not authentic for the upper, but does show the design nicely. SP1 or XM16 lower would be the correct one. Don't forget the roll pin hole to secure the buffer and the dimpled takedown pins........ etc -- Chuck
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 2:35:31 PM EST
ive always been curious about these and stocks and am wondering if that stock could be mounted on a preban without too much trouble. i realize there probably are barrel issues to make it legal but am curious nevertheless
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 2:41:36 PM EST
Ya, Ive been wondering... Is there anyway to make a 16inch barrel look nice with those handguards?
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 2:22:05 AM EST
I pics that I looked at in the book, dont have dimpled takedown pins. I put my name is the list that is being compiled for it. I plan on using a 11.5"/4.5" combo. Not perfect, but no SBR needed. If I ever SBR it, then I can have it cut down to 10". That should not look too weird.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 6:17:30 AM EST
The carbine in the photo has a 10" bbl, just like the XM177/XM177E1. The reason this stock is so rare is, like the original waffle magazine, [i]it didn't work well![/i] No reason to think it'll work any better reincarnated after 35 years. But it does [i]look neat[/i]. [;)] -- Chuck
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 4:27:06 PM EST
i think the toggle switch in the back made it inconvenient but if they had put it on the bottom or the side it would work better now can this be mounted on a regular preban?
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 11:22:44 PM EST
It should work fine on a preban. I am planning on using it on a Colt SP1 rifle.
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 7:47:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Skammy: Ya, Ive been wondering... Is there anyway to make a 16inch barrel look nice with those handguards?
View Quote
I kinda like this "retro dissipator"-look. [url]http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/albums/album_image/42605/32447.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 4:55:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2003 4:57:21 AM EST by uxb]
This is the early XM607 collapsible buttstock project. Reproductions are being made from access to an original and price range will be around $300.00 (still more than khalf the cost of a Crane SOPMOD). Link posted above is correct and you can search XM607 for more info...
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 5:11:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By Stottman: Also, I just looked in the book "the black rifle" by R.Blake Stevens...The one pic of the real thing on page 229 shows a slabside lower with a foward assist upper...
View Quote
Stottman - Can you post/link a scan of that pic???
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 5:14:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/9/2003 5:16:21 AM EST by postino]
Originally Posted By uxb: This is the early XM607 collapsible buttstock project...
View Quote
WA Tom has added me to the list, also...I like it!!! [:D] One question on the barrel/moderator...Exactly what does that moderator do??? Doesn't look like it has any slots, gas diffusers, etc...Is it just hollowed out??? I read on the Special Operations.com site "A Short History Of The M4 Carbine" [url]http://www.specialoperations.com/Weapons/Features/M4/Default.html[/url] that the "moderator" was not especially effective at reducing the fireball or the noise with the short (10"/11.5") barrel, especially in enclosed areas...(I researched other sites also)... Is there a print or sketch for the "moderator" available anywhere??? It looks completely different from the 5" Carbine FH...
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 9:58:04 AM EST
The original moderators were not hollow, but had baffles similar to a suppressor. They were meant to bring down the noise and flash of a 10" barrel to the same level as a 20". The 5.5" flash hiders you see today are based off the look of these. Here are some pics. Probably violated a few copyright laws. XM-177E2 on bottom [img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/robstott/xm1771.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/robstott/xm1772.jpg[/img] First tool room proto types [img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/robstott/xm1773.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 10:41:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By Stottman: The original moderators were not hollow, but had baffles similar to a suppressor...Probably violated a few copyright laws...
View Quote
Thank You, Stottman!!! I didn't realize that "moderator" meant "silencer" (at least in NFA-speak)...WA Tom emailed me some "moderator" info also... (I wonder if the ATF considers *all* flash hiders, muzzle brakes, compensators, etc as "silencers"???...That would explain a lot...) I an especially grateful for the pic of the USAF shorty...I saw one in Panama years ago, but not even a pic since...Fascinating historical footnote...
Top Top