This is very relevant to my interests.  Could you test the very same, but with the four layers of denim?

Is there a big manufacturer that uses the 110 grain Hornadys for 300 AAC loads that pushes them at speeds you'd recommend?  Not sure I want to be reloading ammo I may use defensively (for liability purposes).

Heavy clothing isn't needed for rifle testing. It's used to determine whether clothing fibers can pack the cavity of a hollow point pistol bullet and prevent expansion. This bullet doesn't have a cavity to pack and it's moving fast enough that no amount of clothing could prevent expansion if it did have a cavity.

As for the reloading thing, I think Mas Ayoob did a great disservice to the community with all his fear mongering. If you don't want to use reloads for quality control reasons, that's fine, but I don't think anyone has ever been convicted for using reloads. The whole "overzealous prosecutor" thing is bullshit. He still had to prove that your ACTIONS were unlawful.

Great points about the denim - it never hit me that that was for handguns only.

I used to be pretty careful when reloading, so wouldn't be worried about that aspect.  However, I do certainly fear a lawyer who would drill a defender about purposely building a round for its damage capabilities.

Good stuff.   I tested the Nosler 110gr bullet a couple weeks ago and it did VERY WELL.   Video will be up one of these days

Nice vid. Great to know I don't have to spring for the expensive Barnes 110g pills every time lol.

Very cool, stoked we got a good test of this vs. Freedom Munitions stuff from before.  I've been saying this is a good .300 load for a long time and it has been loaded in my mags since I bought one.

I'm getting 2300fps from a 10.5" FWIW out of the BLACK loading.

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Here it is out of a 16" IIRC at 2400fps.

How would that be any different from purchasing ammo that is selected for terminal performance and how does that relieve them of the responsibility to prove that your ACTIONS were unlawful? And in this scenario do you also have an attorney?

I'm doing that one soon too.

Is the scale in inches?

For the gel? Yes I believe so.

Here's some screenshots from a .pdf I downloaded from BF years ago but I cant find it online.  Not best picture quality but you get the idea.

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I have that pdf - I suspect that brassfetcher decided to keep the information proprietary for one reason or another and had it taken down. Regardless, the VMax results and others are all analyzed pretty deeply in the pdf; they all perform perfectly adequately for defense. Personally, I load the 125 Speer TNTs - excellent performance, good pricing, and they're damned accurate.

Another example of what the VMAX does at lower velocity.  This is the 110gr VMAX loaded in the 277 Wolverine wildcat cartridge.

Penetration with both bullets was right at 19" in clear gel.

Both bullets expanded nicely in the first inch or two of gel and lost a bit of lead and jacket from about 6in-9in in their respective tracks.  Retained weights were about 85gr per recovered bullet.

This ammo was loaded by JB's Firearms. Muzzle velocity, average of four shots over the chrono, was 2,227 fps from my 12.5in barrel.

I've been keeping the 110gr Hornady V-Max Factory load in my 300 BLK Pistol for a while. Glad my choice was confirmed.

I wonder what the AMAX would do........

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/a-max#!/

I've loaded 125g Nosler Ballistic Tips in for my 300Blk. Got 2 deer with the last year. I use the same bullets for my Super 14" 30-30 Contender. The accuracy and ability to put a deer down are fantastic.

I love ballistic tips for hunting and self defense. I mean hollow points and soft points are good too of course. FMJ's are just for target practice though. Of course I wouldn't use a ballistic tip on such a small lightweight bullet like a 55 grain 5.56mm for self defense, it's going to explode on target sure, but it won't go deep enough for larger game or people. Of course a 77 grain, then we're talking. But yeah a 110 grain bullet, no problem, use the ballistic tip.

Not sure there would be any liability, the point is to terminate the threat, whether you use an old Black Talon, load a V-Max, or a wad cutter, they will be just as dead hit in the right place.

think this one through....   The test used a 110 grain expanding .30 cal at mid 1900's.   In other words, the load tested is a ballistic twin, in all regards, to a .30 Cal US Carbine 110 JHP round fired from a M1 Carbine.  And its got a good reputation as 'getting it done".

Interesting to note:  In this day and age of "more is better", the shooter recommends NOT amping this load up.  More velocity = More expansion = LESS penetration.  I know I've been preaching this for years...  If you take a rapidly expanding and lightly constructed bullet (like a Nosler Ballistic Tip) and drive it to modest speeds, instead of fragmenting and blowing up it will often expand modestly, drive a deep hole and work very very well.

I've been doing that with a 165 Nosler Ballistic Tip out of a shortbarrelled 308 Win, driven to .300 Savage speeds.  Performance on 190-200 lb northern whitetails has been phenomenal.

I suspect that the various 110-125 grain varmint bullets, driven to moderate 2000-2400 fps out of the .300 AAC or other small capacity cases like the 6.5 Grendel would all prove to be very good performers, even though these bullets are technically "varmint" bullets ate 308/30-06/300 mag speeds...

I'd bet that a Hornady 125 SST or a Nosler Ballistic Tip 125 in the 300 AAC at 2100-2200  would improve on the already very good performance shown in this test.....  My "Off the cuff" wild assed guess would be  slightly larger wound diameter, and slightly deeper penetration.

I think Ayoob's point was that a politically-driven prosecutor would push a "bloodthirsty gun nut builds Dracula-killers that are more lethal thaen commercial ammo" scenario and toss that to an ignorant jury pool.
ayoob did a lot of expert witness work at one time; he testified very effectively back in the 90s in  a DFW trial of a cop who shot and killed a belligerent suspect with a knife.

I load these for my defensive round for my 300BO. But mine are pushing close to 2400fps with 20.0 grains of H110. Would like to see a gel test @100 yards though. Also have Barnes 110 TAC bullets loaded close to the same too.

Yes, and he always uses extreme examples with other unrelated problems to "prove" his fear mongering. I'm every case, there's always some other factor that was the real reason people had a problem on their trial. For example, he used the Harold Fish case as an example of why you shouldn't use uncommon calibers/hand loads/other scary stuff for defense. The prosecutor did make an issue of the 10mm handgun that Fish carried but the whole trial was a shit show for other reasons. The judge was extremely biased and refused to allow testimony about the character of the deceased and his prior convictions for violent offenses and at the time, Arizona considered self defense to be an affirmative defense to the charge of homicide. That is, the burden of proof was on the accused to show how use of force was necessary. Because Fish and his attacker were the only people present, there was simply no way for Fish to prove he was attacked. He didn't get convicted because of his 10mm, he got convicted because of shitty laws and a kangaroo court. But Ayoob sells advertising by telling people not to carry scary guns.

How was accuracy? SD looks large.

It seems to be a dream of a few of us to see someone test FPS and gel-effectiveness at 100 yards, and then perhaps further.

I'm just not convinced that downloading and using shorter barrels tells it all.  I can understand the frustration of getting center-hits on gel blocks at ranges (to some degree - many a modern platform is 1 MOA or so)(let's skip the Reformation for now, lol).  I can understand that the main body of a chronograph would need to be fronted with a piece of AR500 steel.

I would love to be the guy who risks losing chronographs to get the real deal, but that takes land to test from.

Just a bit of anecdote for this situation....  I grew up hunting with my Uncle and Cousins.  They lived up near where there was a lot of forest land and they were fanatic hunters.  I lived further away and joined them each year.   We hunted a lot of public land so they had a few times they lost a deer to wounding it and it running off a ways and another hunter shoot it or claim it.  So they looked for a way to get a quick kill.  My Uncle shot a pump action remington .30-06 and one cousin a .243 bolt gun, winchester.  Both of them figured out if they load varmint bullets, they may not get a through and through and a blood trail, but they would get deer that died very very quickly.  A deer shot through the lungs with a bullet that mushrooms and goes straight through may still run for a while.

My Uncle had a guy handload him 125 grain ballistic tip for the 06.  And my Cousin shot I believe a factory 80 grain soft point, but meant for Varmints.  And they were right.  I gutted a few of the deer they shot and the 06's with a 125 grain ballistic tip would typically enter and make a huge mess of everything.  And I remember specifically seeing the opposite end where a bullet might come out, a bunch of fragments that didn't exit but smacked up against the rib cage.  The deer died pretty much instantly, typically.  They might have to work a little harder to find the deer, because there wasn't usually a blood trail.  But they were typically very close to where they shot at it, so....  It did work.

But that 06 with a 125 grain varmint bullet was particularly nasty.  One time he neck shot one and it just made a mess of the whole neck and it didn't go anywhere.

The .243 worked similarly, but like you would imagine, just a little rebated in the devastation category.  It still worked very similarly and very well.

So I personally have seen the affects of this type of load work well, albeit I'm sure at higher velocities than a 300 BO.  But one of my points is that you COULD probably push the bullet faster and it probably will still work very well.  But I understand the concern that it may not penetrate as deeply as you might want in gel.  With my Uncles load there was always some evidence of fragments smacking the other side of the chest cavity but not going through.  But I know for sure it was 125 grains.  I just don't know which one.  This was back in the late 80's and early 90's.  I'm betting there weren't that many made at that point.

having shot a few deer with 110g v-max in 6.8, it kills them.

I haven't shot any groups yet. I don't think this powder is ideal.

It's not just getting a center hit. It's placing a shot correctly in three dimensions within the block so that the entire track stays inside the block and the projectile is captured. But also do that after lugging a table, cameras, and the block across rough terrain and then RUNNING back so that the block doesn't warm up in the sun and the cameras don't fill up their cards. And oh yeah, if you screw up a little, all that time spent preparing the gel and setting up the test is wasted. And it's not just the one load that people want to see. They want EVERYTHING tested at EVERY range and EVERY twist rate. I'm sorry if I'm bitch a bit, but putting these videos together is already a lot of work and there just isn't any benefit to me for putting in even more work.

But you'll have undying ARFCOM gratitude.

Wait.  You already have that.  Nevermind...

Impressive.

Do you know what the velocity was?

Yeah, you do a GREAT job.  You can't please us all.....  You do what makes sense to you.  I only made a suggestion cuz you never know, you might like the idea......

I only had a handful of these loads.  They came with some miscellaneous 277WLV stuff I bought awhile ago.  I didn't test for velocity during gel but the four rounds I chrono'ed earlier had an average of 2,227 FPS from my 12.5" barrel.

"varmint bullets" are built for better terminal ballistics than the match bullets everyone creams over. The thing match bullets have over varmint bullets is the sectional density that drives them to further penetration. The SS197SR is using a vmax. I still think there is value in bonded bullets that are tough.

Along this vein of tests, I'd be very very interested in Hornady's 190gr subsonic 300blk bullet.

300 Blackout 190 gr Sub-X Subsonic

And to deviate back to 223, I wonder how their new critical defense 73gr round does.  But I can't find it for sale anywhere.

223 Remington 73 gr Critical Defense

I tried the Sub-X here:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Hornady-300BLK-190gr-Sub-X-in-Gel/16-724086/&page=1&anc=7630075#i7630075

There's a link in my thread to the 300blktalk website where a shooter pulls a bullet and loads it to lower velocity.

I use the same in my 6.8.  Great performer.

Probably icepick.

Though they do turn into grenades out of a .300 Weatherby. 208 grain varmint bullet are fairly amusing.

Thank you. I really do appreciate test ideas. Sorry if I sounded bitchy.

I'd like to see this.

Looks like a special SST Hornady made for this loading. Looks promising.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/fiocchi-300-aac-blackout-125gr-sst-ammunition-25rds-300blkha.html

Also the 115gr Lehigh CC loading.

Yeah, grow a pair, why don't you.  

He might have a point though.  Is it different between downloading or actual hits at distance.  Problem is you might go through the work of all that and it not be different at all than just downloading pressure / velocity.  You can only run down so many "what if's" in your lifetime.   Either way the stuff is going to mess someone's day up.  Even at 400 yards....  might not be expanding at all, but seeins how I hear reports of M855 from an M4 at 800 meters doing their job, it sometimes just feels un-necessary.  We debate the minutia here and people always want that slight bit of edge of the "best".  When in fact most of the stuff that doesn't fall into the category of the best, would most likely work just fine if you really had to shoot someone.  Especially at distances that most people would find themselves in for self defense.  Which is really why I don't mind just having M193 in my mags.    I know, I'm gonna die.

I can see why people would want to use the best for hunting and self defense though.

Nice must've missed that one.  Looks like it did really well.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/172862/lehigh-defense-close-quarters-bullets-300-aac-blackout-308-diameter-78-grain-barrier-blind-fracturing-brass-aluminum-flat-base-box-of-50

Id like to see this at 2550+

If 110gr hits 2400 I think its definitely attainable.

I really want to see more 90gr loads to squeeze more MV out of the BLK. Was pretty pissed they chose 150gr for the Fusion load, 90-100gr would've been great.

The 78gr Lehigh fragments immediately with small pieces traveling inches. The central core of the bullet does about nine inches.

The 78 is a fragile bullet and will come apart if fired from a 1X6 twist.

The only other bullet in this weight range I've seen is loaded by Gorilla. I have not seen any gel or other test reports though.

That's a bit disappointing,  any photos you have to share?

There is no doubt that you do good - no ... great - work.

I have no doubt that running a long-distance test platform would be more complex, and cost more to do it right.  I know that many cameras (like my GoPro) can be started/stopped by a cell phone app, but I have no idea if that bluetooth connection would even work from 100, then 200 or 300 yards away.

Edit: distance testing GoPro https://youtu.be/JA5pPntkJF8

Taken another route, it could all be manual - much like you do it now, but with a second team member down-range and in a deep trench (like some military ranges).  The ideal place to test may be a colder climate for the gel to not deteriorate as well (and... just who in the hell wants to live in a cold-climate state, anyhow?).  It could be a seasonal (i.e. winter) test in central-Florida, I guess.

Just trying to wrap my head around what it would take to make it easier on the tester, and plausible based on location.   I know one thing - if I ever win the lottery and am able to start 'luxury' testing at such distances, I'd fly you in for pointers and tips on the entire process.

Personally, I would not hold you to blame.

Thank you for what you do. I know it's a labor of love, but still, a lot of work.

Again, thank you.

Many of us appreciate it greatly.

Thanks for the link and fantastic work, I appreciate it!

Wow. That’s impressive.

You might like these bullets.  This guy who got charged by a hog would tend to disagree.  He was shooting the 110 VMAX 300BLK in this video.