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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/25/2005 6:48:31 PM EDT
What exactly would happen if a round went off that wasn't chambered. ie,cooked off in a fire or was struck in a way that hit the primer. Would it explode like a firecracker-fragment,or send the bullet and case in two different directions. If the latter happend, any idea of the velocity the 2 would pruduce? I was just reading the post on ammo storage and this came to mind. I am starting to "collect"ammo, and want to take this into consideration. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 10:46:02 PM EDT
The primer would probably blow out if it cooked off, that's about all the flying debris you would get.

The case will split and immediately vent the gas, the bullet would probably never leave the neck area.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:07:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:14:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
we just had a girl hit here locally by a bullet from a round tossed into the fire, can happen tho most times the case just grenades.

any more details?

I've already read and heard that the round usually splits. bullets goes one way, and casing usually goes the other, if they even separate. Little to no penetration. Bruises. Possible cuts from jacket or casing edges. Nowhere near the damage if it were to have been fired from a firearm. Mostly blunt force.

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:54:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:05:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 2:06:55 AM EDT by NAM]

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By NAM:
any more details?

like a name or something?

request clarification of term "hit". description of wounds received.

I mean, it didn't hit her at 2600+ FPS and penetrate several inches before violently yawing and fragmenting. Right?

There's alot of rumors that fire fighters won't fight a fire if ammo is present cause it'll kill everyone. And consensus is it's bs. I'm jsut curious what kind of wound she received. My guess would be misc. cuts and abrasions from shrapnel. possibly some serious cuts of she was'nt wearing much clothing.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:25:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 7:04:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 7:04:42 AM EDT by thezman]
I got hit with a piece of shell casing from a Wolf round that was thrown in the burn barrel.

It went off like a grenade and sent pieces flying, one of them into my finger, that only stopped penetrating because it hit bone.

The myth that rounds are only dangerous when chambered is false.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 7:20:54 AM EDT
I've seen rounds cook off in a fire. The primers didn't blow out. Instead, the case split and/or the round "discharged" the bullet in whatever direction it was pointing. Blanks in a fire are just as dangerous.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 8:07:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thezman:
I got hit with a piece of shell casing from a Wolf round that was thrown in the burn barrel.

It went off like a grenade and sent pieces flying, one of them into my finger, that only stopped penetrating because it hit bone.

The myth that rounds are only dangerous when chambered is false.

not doubting you, but i'll have t osee if i can find the test. Naturally bare of lightly skinned clothing isn't going to help.

The test took a Fire fighter's jecket, and used clay underneath the jacket. THey then put a torch to some rounds. In all cases, the rounds put a good dent in the clay, but did not penetrate the jacket.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:10:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 2:11:37 PM EDT by Big-FED]
OK, time to clarify. We are talking semantics here. Ammo in a fire is dangerous, period. It will inflict injuries of a various nature depending on the clothing being worn, where one is struck and by what part of the cartridge strikes. Physics prevents the bullet, the object of the greatest homogeneous mass (and unlikely to fragment in the fire) from attaining a high enough velocity (>150-200 fps) to cause any serious penetration. The primer may exit the primer pocket with some velocity, but due to the low its low mass, not to the point of being lethal. Same pretty much applies to the case. While it has the mass to be of concern, it most likely is going to rupture due to the burning (not exploding) smokless powder charge it is trying to contain. Most expansion will occur near the mouth in the more straight wall cases, and below the shoulder in the more bottle necked cases. The venting of the gases will be abrupt and may cause fragments of the case to reach out, but, again, due to the limited mass, are dangerous to the eyes and other exposed parts of the body.

Stick a fork in me, I'm done.

Would I stand around a fire if ammo was being thrown into it? Mama didn't raise no idiot and I'm an only child.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 3:30:24 PM EDT
American Rifleman magazine (NRA) did an article years ago about ammo in a residential fire scenario. They stated the primer usuly be a projectile, as it was the lightest part, the cases usually burst, and bullets went a few feet.

On the "HEY YALL -- watch this" side of things , when we was in middle school, friends dad had a bunch of 45acp.... I took 1 and set it on the sidewalk behind the house, bullet pointing towards brick wall approx 3 ft away... took a propane torch, dropped it behind the primer, and ran. The round went BANG", swelled and split the case, piece of the case about the size of avg pinky fingernail opened like a door (split down case from mouth, and a little around the circumference). The bullet hit the brick, and came back and was found behind the case really close in the grass.

Never did try a rifle round.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 7:55:20 PM EDT
American Rifleman March 1996 some quotes:

"Not the hazard it's though to be." was General Hatcher's verdict 4 decades ago, and a new test bears that out.

Typically the forward section of the cartridge case is the thinnest, and is the part that ruptures when subjected to heat.

In some cases during the test procedure the author found that the bullets were pushed out of the cases, but did not rupture the case itself.

At the conclusion they noted that the biggest danger was to your eyes, and firefighters had nothing to fear as long as they had eye protection. However, as mentioned above, I wouldn't stick around if someone threw a cartridge in a fire!

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 8:07:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 8:07:29 PM EDT by NAM]

Originally Posted By Wingman26:
American Rifleman March 1996 some quotes:

That's the one! i knew i saw it somewhere.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 8:38:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 10:44:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
IIRC it was a penetrating wound to the leg that required a trip to the ER, you'll have to ask around, most there don't want to talk about it since it casts a bad light and the girl was little.

I'll do the short version.

It was a live .22LR that was in an ammo box and thrown into the fire. It popped and two pieces of "something" blew out of the fire and hit the girl in the thigh and butt. There was enough force to go through some jeans and about 1/8"-1/4" of flesh. Enough to draw blood.

No permanent injuries, but of course a big scare for the father.

Girl was approx. 4-6 feet away from the fire.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:46:38 PM EDT
While camping, I had put some .22lr rounds in my breast pocket and forgot about them.
Later that night I was tending the fire (leaning over putting more logs on), I had sat down for about 3-5min when there was a load POP. I thought someone threw a blackcat in the fire or something but everyone denied it, a minute later another POP followed by a ricochet sound, then another and another. I felt that the bullets in my pocket were gone so we ran and took cover for about an hour before returning to the fire.

Nobody got hit, but those ricochet sound seemed like there was some serious velocity behind those bullets.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 2:04:35 PM EDT
Myth Busters -- the 22LR fuse
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 2:09:14 PM EDT
Great link sws2, very interesting. Thanks to all who posted.

What I gather is if my stash were ever in a fire there would be little to no chance the cooked off rds would penetrate the cabinet and room they are kept in. Is this safe to say?

What about a blunt force? I know this is very unlikely but the way my luck has been, you never know.Thanks again,
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:12:51 PM EDT
Interesting! I hadn't seen that Box O Truth page before!

In the end, the final conclusion is: "Shooting stuff is fun!"
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:17:51 PM EDT
Dusty (you know, the guy that post 50 times a day that had the jacked up avatar ) was responding to a fire, and a .22 that cooked off got him.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:36:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Dusty (you know, the guy that post 50 times a day that had the jacked up avatar ) was responding to a fire, and a .22 that cooked off got him.

yeah but that was cooked off in a gun I think...
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