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Posted: 10/21/2004 3:19:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Then don't buy one...
Personally I can't see what the big deal is about a Mini Cooper for example, but people continue to pay well over MSRP to get one. If you don't see the value then keep your checkbook closed. I've been back here for only a couple of days, but it fucking amazes me how much people are shitting on each other over nothing at all. Last month we scored a major victory in getting some of our rights back, but instead of celebrating we seem to be preoccupied with dumping on each other. What's the big deal about the 6920? A couple of months ago we couldn't fucking own one unless we had a badge. As far as quality goes the Colt LE6920 is the standard LE carbine against which all others are judged. I work for SigArms here in Exeter as a QA technician, and I believe that our carbine is a superior product. That being said we respect Colt's LE entry-it represents what happens when a company does something right. |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 3:19:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Who knows. I'm not.
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Posted: 10/21/2004 3:21:44 PM EDT
[#3]
I take it you didn't like that question very much. |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 3:25:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Thats not what I meant asshat, I got a ar-15 marked lower. I was just asking why is everyone going for the 6920 model, when there are actual ar-15 marked lowers, you never hear much about them. Dont get me wrong I would buy a 6920, but I am working on the a-3 model now. we are on ar-15.com and we all have ar-15's. But instead of getting the model that says ar-15 on it, everyone wants one that says le carbine. Thats all I am asking, yes its vain, but who cares...
kinda like buying a corvette, but not having the chevy symbol on it.... |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 3:37:04 PM EDT
[#5]
OK - everybody needs to take a friggen chill pill. This is a very simply answer. The Colt 6920 is the closest thing a civie can buy to a true M4 carbine. The only difference between the two is their fire capability (Semi vs. Full auto) the trigger pin size. I agree, the other lowers, because they actually have "AR15" stamped on them are more desirable but these people aren't buying lowers, they are buying complete rifles\carbines. The 6920 is the configuration most people want. It's that simple. |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 3:38:36 PM EDT
[#6]
don't forget the barrel length is 16" not 14.5"
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Posted: 10/21/2004 3:46:27 PM EDT
[#7]
ok I see now, they want a m-4 clone, seems to me the best way is to get a ar-15 marked lower and then build the m-4 from there, but I can see the ready made appeal. I went with the ar-15 marked lower cause I had always wanted one and almost bought a sp-1 lower about 2 years ago for 800, but glad I waited, now I have a TRUE ar-15 and the raised fence....
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Posted: 10/21/2004 3:48:06 PM EDT
[#8]
You are correct. I did forget that difference |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 3:53:31 PM EDT
[#9]
I wouldn't mind having a Colt AR15 marked lower either but not enough so to justify the money it would cost. I think the way the 6721 is marked is perfect (except for the LEO markings on the other side) but I hate the upper is comes with. If I bought the 6721 and sold the upper at fair market value, the lower would end up costing me ~$500. Well more than it's worth IMO. Unfortunately, these are not readily available buy themselves or in stripped form. |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 4:00:27 PM EDT
[#10]
This is why
  
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Posted: 10/21/2004 4:01:57 PM EDT
[#11]
And don't forget it doesn't say M4 on it either...a closer M4 would be to buy a postban M4 lower and a 6920 conversion kit... |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 4:06:01 PM EDT
[#12]
I bought a couple lowers with internals from Specialized Armament, 1 Government Carbine (6520) and 1 AR15-A3 Tactial Carbine (6721) Worth Checking out $250.00 Stripped $350.00 With internals (last month) To go along with my 6920 6920HB 6721 and LMT M4 |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 4:09:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Damn good point...however, I would love to celebrate the sunset with legal civilian guns that were not bastardized. Guess what, Colt went and told us to fuck off. I have been a Colt fan my whole life, and was defending them for years over some things that were admittedly retarded at best and inexcusable at worst. We, gun owners that care about the 2nd Amend., made sure of the sunset, not companies like Colt that could give a shit about civilians. So when the truth comes out, fuck yeah, a lot of us are going to bash Colt. This isn't my fault...Colt went way out of there way to kill off the great tradition that Colt once was...IMHO...fuck them. We should be supporting pro 2nd Amend. companies...and that is what I just did, going out and buying a new RRA. If Colt hadn't fucked up they might have gotten my money...oh well, I guess the military and LE's are more important. If that is the case...then expect the dumping to continue when ppl. bring them up. There is a Colt forum btw in case the 6920 boys want to pat each other on the back... |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 4:33:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Still a little pricey but not bad. I'll keep it in mind. Thanks |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 5:28:34 PM EDT
[#15]
I respectfully ask you to think hard about what you just said. Do you realistically expect Colt (or Bushmaster or RRA or --fill in the blank--) to place the civilian market ahead of their *primary* market which IS the military and LE market. IMHO, the people that go into harms' way SHOULD get priority. Let's be rational please. |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 5:39:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Rewind here for a second.... that wouldnt be the 551 carbine would it? |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 6:10:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Yes.
I can understand and respect your points, but by virtue of your moniker I can assume that like me, you are an HK fan. As a company, Colt can't hold a candle to HK when it comes to slapping civilian customers around. My point is, why do companies like HK get a pass when it comes to their corporate manners, but Colt does not? I have seen reasoning and arguments here time and time again that have mystified me, for example: Many Colt detractors are unhappy with the way Colt webbed their new lowers. They say it makes DIAS installation more difficult. These same people give RRA/CMT a pass for the absurdly high shelf under the rear takedown pin. From a machining standpoint, a Colt lower can be completely unblocked with a single pass of an endmill-versus several passes to unblock an RRA. Why does RRA get a pass? Many Colt detractors decry Colt's use of .170 H/T pins because they somehow aren't "milspec" (nevermind that there is no such thing as a "milspec" AR). Many of these same people however don't seem to mind shelling out $45.00 to replace the "non milspec" commercial grade buffer tubes in their Bushy, RRA, DPMS etc ARs whenever they want to install a Vltor or Crane telestock? Why the duality? Why are some companies held to different standards than others? Many Colt detractors say that Colt doesn't "care" about them. Firms like Colt and HK are LE/military contractors first, and civilian firms second. Why do so many people have such a hard time with this concept? It's not that they don't "care" (whatever the hell that means) it's that the majority of their revenue comes from LE/Mil sales rather than civilian commercial. People seem to take it personally that Colt's business focus isn't on them personally. As much as I love my Colts (and RRAs and Bushys and ACOGs and Surefires) I realize that my needs take a backseat to our troops and police out in harms way. That's just reality folks... |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 6:27:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Chris, I not going to argue your points for or against Colt because frankly, they have nothing to do with this thread. rak1004 didn't ask why a LE6920 over a BM or RRA, he asked why a LE6920 over any of the other Colt LE rifles that come properly marked as "AR15". So I'm sitting here trying to figure out why you jumped all over his post trying to defend Colt when this guy didn't say a bad thing about them? I understand it is a touchy subject with you but relax man!  |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 6:37:16 PM EDT
[#19]
It all started with the thread title "stupid 6920 ???" My long winded diatribe about Colt was aimed at P7M8. Like me, he obviously feels strongly about his convictions and I respect his opinions. I'd just like to better understand why he feels the way he does. |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 6:40:00 PM EDT
[#20]
I was looking to buy a postban and I really like the looks of the 6920, but everytime I think I might want to buy it I look at my M16A1 which sits in my safe and I think "nah!!"
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Posted: 10/21/2004 6:52:54 PM EDT
[#21]
I wasn't aware our troops have a shortage of M16s...and I know LE departments could get free M16s from .gov...what does that have to do with Colt selling us bastardized Match Targets after the sunset? How did you get from my comments that I am advocating taking guns from our troops so these 6920 collectors can get theirs? Oh, and btw...I think Colt has a lot more production capability than they have used in a long time since they lost the contract to FN for the M16A2 a long time ago... |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 7:07:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Ok, I'll say this again...Colt's BS policies towards civilians have nothing to do with taking guns away or the needs of our troops. If one thinks that then they shouldn't be buying all these 6920s that could be going to our troops (some of the parts) or our cops (the complete gun). Colt could sell a ton of guns on the open market, but they have transitioned to a business strategy that gives the middle finger to the 2nd Amend. ppl. Yes, my id is of an HK product, one I bought used mind you and that I happen to love. If you want a gun such as the P7M8 you have to buy and HK. In the AR world, there are many, many choices. With the policies of the past and very recent by Colt, I feel it is against our own interests to give such a company our hard earned money. By the benefit of geography, I am able for example to go to Camp Perry every year. There are a lot of great AR companies that set up shop to meet and support the American Sportsman. Funny you don't see Colt there... And last but not least, let's ask why is Colt "centered" on LE/Mil sales? Why, because they fucking pissed away their handgun market. They took the 1911 market, a market they owned, and lost it in a few short years to an upstart. Colt used to service and sell to just about any buyer, not just the LE/Mil. Ie...it wasn't really a strategy that lost them civilian handgun sales, they just got their ass handed to them... |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 7:15:18 PM EDT
[#23]
One point I forgot to make...I'm not being hypocritical about HK because I haven't made excuses for them. I, like many, am not happy with their treatment of civilian customers (although personally I have had good customer service from them, and bad from Colt, but anyways)...
The reason I get so upset about Colt's policies now is their history. HK was a company founded by ex Nazis after they came back from Spain. Colt is the American gun history. Samuel Colt is ingrained in our culture. The reason I'm so passionate about the BS from them is because they have ruined the best tradition and best name a gun company could have... |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 7:34:32 PM EDT
[#24]
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally I would love for Colt to focus on civilians again, tell the antis to get fucked, and openly support the 2nd by putting evil features on Match Targets right away. As recently as four or five months ago Colt supposedly was deadlocked on what to do with the Match Target line. Depending on who you spoke to within the company some said they will put preban features on post sunset MTs right away, and others said it would take a while. What I haven't seen mentioned is that a few months prior to the sunset Colt's output of the LE6920 increased. Did they do this in anticipation of a surge in LE sales in early September? Somehow I don't think so. It looks to me like a classic case of Colt trying to take a PC approach publically and then doing something else entirely. It smells a lot like Pres Bush publically supporting the AWB renewal while Rove squashed it behind the scenes. I don't like it either, but it's far better than the approach my own employer has taken with zero civilian carbine sales whatsoever. Even that photo of the memo from Colt floating around here doesn't have any real teeth. Edited to add:
I wasn't trying to suggest that you were being hypocritical. I just wanted to know where you came down with HK on similiar issues. |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 7:42:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Colt lost the M16 to FN in the mid 80's. They don't make that anymore for the governement. What's your point? As far as your comments about taking guns from our troops, I thought (and it wasn't just me from another reply above) it was pretty clear what your statement implied. If I misread, my fault, I apologize. As far as Colt's production capability, you at least recognize they lost that contract many many years ago (which contradicts a point you were trying to make in your first sentence). Do you think Colt would have retained all that excess capacity after all these years? Business do not let excess capacity sit idle. They either use it or they sell it. Colt seems to be languishing as a business on and off for years and it is highly doubtful that they have retained this capacity when they needed to convert it to much needed cash. You're obviously very angry about something. I'm not gonna waste your time nor mine parrying with you as I know it will get us absolutely nowhere and I'd rather spend my energy on something worthwhile. This is a forum with a large varied set of opinions which I respect despite some of them being different than mine. I joined this forum to learn, not to argue. Carry on. |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 7:46:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Purely for the sake of clarification (and me being a detail oriented freak
) it should be noted that Colt won back the M-16 contract in 1998 with an order for 32,000+ units.Colt history |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 7:48:18 PM EDT
[#27]
There is nothing wrong with disagreement. I guess I had high expectations that post-sunset Colt would have been on our side. Maybe I was expecting less of HK (especially since the import ban puts them in a bad situation, regardless of their new facility here) but Colt really let me down...
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Posted: 10/21/2004 7:55:11 PM EDT
[#28]
For what it's worth, give it a little time before you write them off entirely. Colt knows where all of their 6920s have been going for the past month and a half. In my opinion, if they truly didn't care about their civilian customers they never would have released the MT6400C. It was one of the best civilian legal carbines to hit the market during the AWB. |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 7:56:50 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 10/21/2004 8:43:10 PM EDT
[#30]
why doesn't sig sell there 551 carbine to us civies?hey
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Posted: 10/21/2004 8:51:30 PM EDT
[#31]
CJ it's great to have you back!!!!
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Posted: 10/22/2004 8:59:50 AM EDT
[#32]
I like your company as well as I like Colt-I have 5 Sig handguns, they're the best!!! |
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Posted: 10/22/2004 10:43:08 AM EDT
[#33]
Job security baby! Thank you
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Posted: 10/22/2004 11:20:49 AM EDT
[#34]
In regard to the original post about why the big thrill over the 6920:
Its obvious: the grenade launcher friendly barrel!! All those individuals that happen to have a M203 sitting around collecting dust can now grab their can of HE rounds, go to their local gun range and make the 6 o'clock news! Or maybe the 6920 fulfills their fantasy of playing "war" with real toys that look and function really close to what the big boys use. |
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Posted: 10/23/2004 6:07:19 AM EDT
[#35]
I didnt mean stupid 6920, I meant stupid ? about it. But it is answered now, everyone wants the m4 look about it. I went the opposite way, I wanted a ar-15 , so I guess I got a 6721 or something, Im not sure what model, but it is marked ar-15 a2 govt carbine.
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Posted: 10/23/2004 6:46:13 AM EDT
[#36]
+1 Same here! 
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Posted: 10/23/2004 7:23:40 AM EDT
[#37]
Hijack in process... PLEASE TELL US WHEN THE 551 WILL BE FOR SALE TO US LOWELY CIVIES??????????????? |
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Posted: 10/23/2004 11:48:03 AM EDT
[#38]
I wasn't aware our troops have a shortage of M16s...and I know LE departments could get free M16s from .gov...what does that have to do with Colt selling us bastardized Match Targets after the sunset? How did you get from my comments that I am advocating taking guns from our troops so these 6920 collectors can get theirs? Oh, and btw...I think Colt has a lot more production capability than they have used in a long time since they lost the contract to FN for the M16A2 a long time ago... Amen! |
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Posted: 10/23/2004 12:06:37 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 10/23/2004 12:52:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Just as soon as Ohio Rapid Fire starts making 551 receivers.
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Posted: 10/23/2004 1:39:14 PM EDT
[#41]
No, I ment SIG produced 551's from there US plant. |
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Posted: 10/23/2004 2:49:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Agreed. Chose a 6520 for the same reason. While the price may be a little inflated on them right now, It’s the first chance I have had to own a AR-15 A2 new at a remotely sane price. Not that a model name makes any difference in what the weapon does, it is the only one in my small collection called that. It will probably end up being my only one marked AR-15 because as many others here feel, I would rather give my business to a company that wants it or at least was prepared to offer their customers the product they desired as soon as it became legal again. |
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Posted: 10/23/2004 2:51:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Oops...  Sorry about that then! |
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Posted: 10/23/2004 3:25:13 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 10/23/2004 3:48:33 PM EDT
[#45]
I wanted a semi-auto Colt M4 w/ evil features; the MT4600C was still neutered so that left me with the LE6920. Period. No real mystery there. |
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they would sell a million them things in a week just look at the frenzy with the 6920. Ray