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I've been playing 6.8SPC for several years.

I've worked up some great loads, and have a shit-ton of brass.

I've built three 6.8SPC rifles, the most, recent a 16" middy with a Wilson Combat LW hunter barrel, a precision reflex carbon fiber tube, JP trigger ect.  LOVE IT

I also have an Armalite AR10, and a bunch of 5.56 AR's

I want to try 6.5Grendel but I keep finding things that keep me from jumping in the pool.

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brass is expensive.

barrels are either, cheap shit,  or decent, but back-ordered to hell and gone(AA), or very expensive (JP)


I live in the midwest, and most of my hunting is under 200yrds.

Every time, I think about building a 6.5, I look in my gunsafe, and think I've got it covered.

6.5 would mean, money spent on dies, barrel, bolt, components, optics, ect.

On the other hand, I think I'd have fun working up loads and shooting it.

[shrug]

Thought about it too.  

Although, I plan to stick with the 6.8...it fills the bill for the purpose I intend to use it and does it well.  

To me the 6.5 Creedmoor is a more interesting caliber but does not function in a AR15 platform.

Sounds like a real world problem. But just think of the fun factor on looking for the perfect barrel score and feeding the builders need. Or you could buy a ready made LaRue.

I've thought about putting a 6.5creedmore on my Armalite AR10

---------------------------------------------

I emailed LARUE, and asked if they had any plans to sell grendel barrels.

they said yes, but didn't know when.

I am teetering in the fact I have a complete AR ready to be built i was going to do a 6.5 grendel for. But running .223, .300blk, and .308, taking on a new cartridge I keep flip flopping on. Neither 6.5g or 6.8 is what I reload. So i will need dies, brass ect. But what is the downside to just building another .223 SPR then buying a decent bolt gun to shoot 6.5 creedmoor, some dies, and stretch some serious legs out.

Since you have a good working knowledge of how the 6.8 handles, practical aspects of loading for it, with several builds, I'd really be interested in how 6.5 Grendel compares from your perspective.

You could duplicate or exceed your 16" 6.8 speed/energy performance with a 14.5" or 12.5" Grendel barrel but with less wind (easier to hold center for a vital zone shot in the wind at 150-225yds), and then have steel case options for economical plinking.

I've personally never found the Grendel brass price to be an issue for some reason.

I actually build up a lot of my brass supply from Lapua or Hornady brass factory ammunition, which is all some of the best ammo you can get for the AR15 in my experience, and I've shot a lot of Mk.262, Hornady 68gr BTHP MATCH, 69gr SMK hand loads and FGMM, Black Hills, etc. over the years and in my DM courses.

Grafs has Hornady Grendel brass for $55/100 right now.  I honestly heard all kinds of stories about Hornady brass life, but mine has been excellent so far after many years of loading it.  Can't recall losing a single piece yet, and I've been shooting it ever since they came out with their factory 123gr AMAX.

There is a growing number of mid-range barrels from Ballistic Advantage and Faxon now, in addition to AA, J&T, Brownell's, Midway, Odin Works, etc.

Do you want 16" specifically? Odin Works has an interesting 16" ILGS with adjustable gas block and ILGS tube for $325.


The honest difference you'll see at 200yds between a 6.8 and 6.5 Grendel with Hornady SST ammo is:

6.5 Grendel 123gr SST 2440fps
200yd 2085 fps 1188 ft-lbs 3.6" drift in 10mph wind

6.8 SPC 120gr SST 2460fps
200yd 2051 fps 1121 ft-lbs 4.1"

Nothing earth-shattering really.  The Grendel will still have center hold POA/POI into the vitals with a 10mph wind out to 225yds, whereas the 6.8 will just barely push outside the 10" vital zone at 225yds with a center hold in 10mph wind (5.3" drift) full value.

You could load your 6.8 hotter to 2520fps and bring the drift to 5.1", but still technically outside of a 10" vital zone, although a .227" pill will still cut into the vital zone on the edge.  Still won't have the same energy of a factory Grendel at 200yds, but close.

Then you can load the Grendel with CFE of LVR and add 50-100fps as well, but I personally have gone to the stage where I look for a load combination that gives me room for velocity, but nodes more importantly within the upper end of the velocity range.

If you want a more compact blaster that matches/exceeds your current 6.8 hunting performance, do a 14.5" Grendel.  They average anywhere from 2350-2420fps with a 123gr SST factory load.

Do you currently use a 200yd zero for hunting?  Are you using the 120gr SST?  I think that's a great bullet for the 6.8, economical, proven performance, solid company, great factory round, plenty of data to load it with.

123gr SST in the Grendel just gives you a little more edge even with less mv, better SD, higher BC, higher hit probability into the vitals, farther expansion range.  It then makes you want to leave the AR10 in the safe even more when you go out to shoot distance with it, since it's spun faster, has the BC the 168gr SMK was supposed to have but doesn't, so supersonic reach is farther than a .308 Win/168gr SMK from the same barrel length.  I've seen this over and over again with the 2 side-by-side.

The SPR and 6.5 Grendel are an ideal combo.  Once you shoot Grendel/AR15, you'll not want to mess with 18" .223 again, at least that's what happened to me.

I also have .260 Rem LR-260 custom rifle and 6.5 Creedmoor bolt gun, and have shot and spotted for a lot of .260 Rem and 6.5 CM.

.260 Rem and 6.5 CM are fun to shoot targets at 800-1400yds for deliberate, single round, single hit slow fire from larger rifles.  Recoil is much more like .308 when shooting 140s.

Grendel comes into its own for ease of handling the rifle, rapid follow-up shots, and just ease of getting into and continuing to shoot.

Factory ammo is plentiful and affordable for Grendel.  6.5 Creedmoor is not that far away from it now, and Hornady's .260 Rem load will make it more accessible than before, but I shoot Grendel the most personally, even though I thought that would never happen with .260 Rem.

For someone just getting into long range shooting, I strongly recommend a 6.5 Grendel to learn the wind on and just have fun with at a very affordable entry point.  If you find that you want to compete, then 6x47 and 6 Creedmoor are the ones to beat, with significant costs associated with ammunition and barrel replacement.

What I found between 22-24" Grendel and 22-24" .260/6.5 CM, was that all of them are supersonic well past 1000yds, with maybe 150-225yds of additional reach from the larger cartridges.  I thought the gap in performance would be much larger from the Grendel, but you literally hit Grendel mv at 150-225yds with the exact same bullets in the 6.5CM and .260 Rem.

For me, the price of rifle weight, recoil, brass life, powder consumption, tuning issues with the gas guns, rifle case bulk/weight, relegated those guns more to occasional use, and the Grendels always go with me to the range or training events.

I use 110grVMAX    31.5gr H322 @ 2708 fps for coyotes

and SIERRA 110gr pro hunters for deer.

I haven't tried the 120 SST yet

ETA:

I have been researching and shopping around.

AA is 6 weeks backordered, and the founder has left. also has goofy muzzle threads, but otherwise good reviews

browells satern might be a good deal with an adjustable gas block

that 16" ODIN looks really nice.

faxon and Larue barrels are coming, maybe I should ask Mrs. Santa and wait a bit

Take the leap. If you understand the Grendel's limitations, you will be well pleased with it. I need to monkey with the gas system on mine to get her running right, but that shouldn't be a problem.

Ballistic Advantage is the barrel you want. Get a 16" and it'll cover all your needs, you can just build the upper to test out and see if it's really worth it to you, if you don't love it, sell the upper.

Do it. Coming from the 6.8 camp I'd like to hear your thoughts on the 6.5G. I found it pretty easy to get to shoot good. It's a cool little round that doesn't put the bearing surface of the bullet past the neck. Fact is, its a lot better looking round than 6.8 too.

I researched both 6.8 and 6.5 and settled on the 6.5.  The ballistics are better at longer range but that wasn't really what swung me.  In the end it was because I don't reload and I could get good match and hunting ammo for a reasonable price AND probably most importantly, Wolf for .25 cpr.  

If it had been the other way around and there was inexpensive decent ammo for the 6.8 I would have not hunted down barrels (Satern 18" and Lilja 11") and bolts and built up uppers.  I would just have ordered a Wilson Combat 11.5 inch 6.8 upper and been done with it.  Then later maybe built a 16 inch.

For what you are doing and the fact that you handload I don't see 6.8 as a handicap.

Pick up 5 boxes of the 120gr sst's. Shoot them all the way out to 500 yards and the grendel will add a little over a 100 yards for the same dope you dial. But if you're higher in elevation you will get a bit more from both the 6.8 and the 6.5 grendel. Personally I think the 120gr sst is the best deer round from the 6.8. Because it's much more consistent at expansion other than the barns all copper bullets. I have found that the Grendel is just a bit more finicky than the 6.8 but it's much easier to shoot past 400 yards so there's some give an take. The 110gr Vmax load is just so inconsistent. It might blow up one time and zip right through a hog the next. Now accuracy out of my daughter's rifle with the 110gr Vmax is outstanding. But the 120gr sst's aren't far behind.

Now the only way I can tell you if you like the grendel better is just mount similar optics on two uppers use the same lower and shoot them. I was surprised when I did and when my daughter took her 6.8 I have not replaced it.

I would never call my 6.8 a handicap

I've been a big fan of 6.8 for several years

how do you like your 18" satern, is it overgassed?

(looking at brownells reviews )

midsouth is selling new hornady brass for 45/100 so thats not an issue.

use an adjustable gas block regardless of your barrel.

i went 6.5g over 6.8 due to bullet selection.

The Satern 18" and Liberty 18" barrels have been ported with .0935" ports for some reason (MLGS), which often needs to be tamed somehow.

I had a Satern with a PRI adjustable gas block closed down almost all the way, and it still ran a fast cyclic rate with rifle buffer, rifle spring/RET.

Some of the smoothest-running barrels so far in 16" that don't need any adjustable gas have been the AA fluted and the Lilja Wasp 16", which I still have.  Lilja doesn't make the 16" anymore for some reason, but they do make 18", 11.5", 12.875", 20", and 24".

The first time I tested out the Lilja 16" Wasp barreled upper I built, I shot 4 consecutive .75" to .83" groups with 123gr SST right out of the gate, and it handled like a pussycat for such a lightweight carbine (sub 6lbs before optics).

The smoothest-handling Grendel for me so far though has been the LaRue Stealth 2.0 18" MLGS FDE complete rifle with Tranquillo brake.

The next closest would be a Precision Firearms 20" Criterion RLGS with a Dead Air muzzle brake on it.

My Lilja 318 also handles very well, with JP SCS, but I think I need to use an adjustable gas bolt carrier with it.  I noticed some excessive carrier bounce when shooting 31.5gr CFE under 123gr AMAX.  Most would never feel it, but I could see it out of my close peripheral vision.

I really want an SBR now, and have for some time.  The original barrel length I wanted was 18", but you had to be quick to get one back then, so I ended up with 16" instead and glad I did because it allowed me to see how the cartridge actually performed from a barrel length that many said was basically worthless.  First time I cracked off a round at a 1200yd target after dialing my dope, I was shocked at how I barely was off the low/left edge, then put the remaining 4 rounds on target as fast as I could get a good sight picture and trigger break in the conditions.  That was at 4400ft elevation, 80° F with factory 123gr AMAX.  My reaction was, "I need to get a 20 MOA mount on this thing and spend more time with it beyond 700yds."  Couldn't believe how predictable it was at 1200yds.

They are fun to smoke steel with from such a tiny little AR15.  I was normally accustomed to very heavy 14lb rifles for shooting distance, so when I saw that I had higher hit potential with half the recoil of a .308, and fast follow-up shot ability, it turned out to be a joy to shoot.

If you want 16", get one of the Ballistic Advantage or Odin Works barrels.  The AA 16" barrels have been anywhere from sub-MOA to 1.5 MOA for 5rd groups, depending on what you get, which is plenty for hunting.  PF Criterion and Bartlein are good options as well.

If you want it now, and want exceptional accuracy, get a Lilja.

Do it! A low cost option is the Bear Creek Arsenal complete uppers. We sell quite a few of them in our store and our customers are happy with them. I would recommend the stainless barrel version over the nitride barrel.

Sorry handicap was the wrong word.  

My barrel had a mid length .0938 gas port and I assembled it with a W.A.R. upper from Innovative Arms which essentially has a switch block in the receiver.  The barrel worked fine in the standard position with my omega but would not cycle in the "Supressed" position so I opened the gas port to .1094 and now it runs great in both positions.  The W.A.R. upper is designed for 5.56 with certain gas port sizes and length so I knew it might be finicky with the 6.5.  

The W.A.R. is noticeably quieter in the suppressed mode at the new port size than it was at the old port size in the unsuppressed position.  Gas is not an issue in this configuration with an Omega.  The selector switch for the mode is a silver lever on the front upper left side of the upper receiver.

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I call dibs on that Armalite Defender if you decide to sell it.

After realizing the capabilities of both the .260 Remington in a large AR10-size, as well as 6.5 Grendel in the AR15 package, I got out of .308 for my large guns and rarely shoot my .260 Remington anymore.  A lot of people probably see my posts about Grendel and think I'm a one-trick pony, but I literally have spend most of my life shooting .308 Match at distance from various rifles ranging from National Match M14s/M21s, to the M24 Sniper Weapon System, to SR25s, AR10s, and custom-built gas guns I've had made for me for competition.  I've also been able to test out and see how the SCAR-17S performs in my DM courses and other long range shooting events over the years.

It's just so much easier dealing with 6.5 Grendel from within the start of a build or purchase, to packing up for the range, to actually shooting, tracking the shot, brass prep, reloading, brass life, and tons of factory ammo support.

Deal Alert for 6.5 complete uppers;

Bear Creek has 20" 416SS heavy SIDE CHARGING complete uppers on special for $354









I am tempted but I still need to buy glass for my 24"

ETA:  googled " brear creek grendel" and found these videos...

Not even running a few patches through before scoping the bore seems ridiculous to me. So how does it shoot?

that's not me

I googled "bear creek grendel" and found those videos

2nd one,  he cleans the bore.

[shrug]

Other thread about the Classic  barrels [which are Bear Creek] report decent accuracy

Well I sure wouldn't jump into a new cartridge with some mystery barrel, my first and so far only 6.5G is a Lilja

I'm in the same boat only instead of 6.8 I'm hunting with 300blk and 308.  Took a nice buck with my armalite def10 last fall but it's a little heavy to hump around in the woods.  I'm just not sure that I want to get into a different caliber right now.  If I do, I'm thinking of building a 12.5" upper for one of my sbr lowers, and after I stock up on ammo and mags eventually building a complete 16 or 18 inch gun.  Grendel has been calling to me for years so it's only a matter of time.

My thoughts exactly. @LRRPF52 helped convince me 6.5G was worth adding another caliber to the collection and I started looking for a barrel deal. Faxon group buy looked good, then I saw the classic, and radical or bear Creek uppers could be had for under $500.  LaRue saved me with his upper kit deal so now I can kick off 6.5G in style without breaking the bank.  I feel a lot more confident that I won't encounter problems or be disappointed with performance.

I feel you OP.

Wanted 6.5 G and then a 16" Wilson LW came to me in a trade.

I've played with loads, compiled data, brass etc., but still have Grendel itch.

I also have LR .308, SPR, BLK in 8.5" and 16".  Use them all, just some way more than others.

Happy with the 6.8.  I'm loading 120 SST at 2550, which is a great load that smacks the snot out of deer, but I look at those sleek 6.5's. So slippery in the wind and supersonic way past the 900 yards for my 6.8.

Retooling to 6.5 G is a pain, but doable.

Retooling to 6.5 C for the LR .308 is easy enough, but the damn thing would become a less used LRPR, especially since I already tried 6.5 C in a bolt gun.

I'd probably already have gone Grendel if I could sell some crap I NEVER use anymore, but I'm not willing to give it away for what people pay in this market.

If I do, I think I'll appreciate the decreased drift and powder commonality most.

Finding AA 2200 was a pain for awhile, and I only use it in 6.8.  CFE 223 I use a metric shit ton of.

Truthfully with what you have I would skip the Grendel all together and convert the .308 to 6.5 Creedmoor.

A good way to go for those interested in 6.5 cal but have 6.8 spc components is to try the 6.5 x 41mm or SIX5, using 6.8 spc brass cut down 2mm from the neck, most common dies, and a small selection of the various 6.5G projectiles (mfg that can't be named developed it like that).

Otherwise, I would just order the AA barrel until you figure your end out, get it in 2-3 months, and then sell if you change your mind. Plenty of folks would buy it outright for what you paid for get around the wait.

With cheap steel case for 6.5 G and 6.8 only beginning to get support from Starline, I'm doing a 18" AA fluted with Mega and V7 parts to complement the SIX5 and 6.8 spc uppers I have.

I've got 5.56,300 and a LaRue 260. Been thinking about a 6.5g kit from LaRue.

Don't laugh or belittle me but I ran across a company in Atlanta that was/ is selling a 18" BCA complete for $299. It has BCA barrel, 15" Matrix handguard Joe Bob's gas components,
and don't recall the upper make. I function checked it yesterday using the Wolf 100 grain steel case ammo and one of my ASC 7.62x39 magazines and all is well. I also inspected the chamber and bore extensively with really good quality showing on my bore scope. I also purchased a Type II bolt from them for $100. I did have to work on the extractor to get it to smooth up upon batterie. The website is
http://pro2a-tactical.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_7&products_id=45

[Deleted]

And the thread gets nuked, OP knows what he's gonna do anyways.

Was thinking about it

Armalite 6.5 creedmore barrels are not in stock

I shot my 6.8 a few days ago, and decided to put the grendel project on the back burner for now

I have had great success with my 18" Odin Works DMR profile upper.

I grabbed a complete BCA 16" govt profile upper nitrided for plinking, but have not tried it yet.  Spent most of the summer free time helping my college boy practice with his CCW, poor kid is right eye dominant and left handed.

I am seriously considering a BA 12.5 too for my SBR.

I sold off all my 308 weapons for the Grendel and feel it was great change to make.

With all the .308s I've owned and have shot that come through courses, I still don't miss .308 Win.  

Not even a little.  I don't miss loading for it, trimming brass, sucking down the powder measure with each dispense, the recoil effect on my sight picture, the muzzle blast, and I especially don't miss carrying it around.

Wish Grendel would have been around a long time ago...

I haven't assembled it yet but my Classic barrel is a very nice looking barrel inside and out.

I picked 6.5G over 6.8, pretty much anything the 6.8 can do a 6.5G can do a little better.  But if I had a few 6.8's and the tooling to feed them I don't know if it would be worth it to me to add another caliber to do pretty much the same thing just a little bit better.

I am just starting to get into 6.5 Grendel, and I am beginning to think it might be the perfect caliber.

Great performance both short, intermediate, and long distances.  I jumped on the LaRue sale.

OP here.....

screw it






ordered an 18" alexander barrel

email reply said 5 weeks lead time

And the bug bites another. I like the 18" barrels the best especially when it comes time to mount a can. Good luck OP.

Can't go wrong with an AA. I was just out shooting my 16" with the cheapie wolf at a 12" X 16" plate at 450 yards tonight.

Had the occasional oddball flyer with the wolf but it was hitting pretty consistently once I got it dialed in. The weaker (darker) spots
on there are from a 5,56 AR. They were pinging it, but that Grendel was knocking that plate all over when they hit. You can clearly see
where I was dialing it up, and then to the left.

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Nice

I also ordered some brass

My 18" Satern barrel is over gassed and my action initially cycled crazy fast, resulting in many stovepipes with Hornady (but not Wolf) ammo.  I changed to a 4oz buffer which mostly solved the problem, but not all.  Based on Michael Bell's review, I installed a L.A.R.B. buffer to slow it down about 10% more and my rifle is 100% now.  It also seems to operate smoother, feels like it has less recoil, and I don't hear the spring vibrating in the tube after each shot now.

I also had around 15% misfires with Wolf ammo due to the hard primers, but an enhanced firing pin has fixed that problem and now it goes bang every time with whatever's in the tube.  This might not have been an issue with a mil-spec hammer spring, but I opted for the 3½# pull springs for my JP trigger.

....it begins....

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Cool, now you can see how much better that cartridge is designed than the other one.

Looks like Christmas in September.

120gr vs 123gr you're not going to see much difference till you go past 400 yards. But I still like the 6.8 remny for deer and oinkers. It's fun as hell to take two weapons with the same barrel length and walk them out till one starts edging the other one out. Now that my daughter took her 6.8 I need to build me another upper.  Maybe she will still bring her brass home.

Christmas will be when the ( back ordered )  18" Alexander Arms barrel shows up.





I almost ordered the primary arms ODIN sale

....but before I could call and cancel the AA, . . . the ODIN was sold out.

http://www.primaryarms.com/odin-works-18-6-5-grendel-lbc-dmr-profile-intermediate-gas-b-6-5-18-int-tg-bcg

vs

http://www.shopalexanderarms.com/DIY_Parts_Components-6_5_Grendel_16_Lite_Barrel.html

Right there with you.  I broke down and ordered the same barrel.

And so it begins.