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Posted: 4/27/2011 10:26:52 AM EDT
edited to correct thickness of steel ,
and I added a photo to that effect.

rifle 1:9 16"
target 3/8" 1/2" mild steel
range 25 yds, 30-degree oblique angle
ammunition PMC xtac



thickness


front


front


back
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 10:41:56 AM EDT
Need something behind the steel. Like a phone book so we can see how much it has left after penetrating the steel.



Cool none the less, but leaves me curiouser.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 11:15:52 AM EDT
Very cool!
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 1:04:42 PM EDT
cool! thanks for sharing!
I wonder if a normal 55/62gr FMJ bullet (without steel core) would do the same
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 1:07:58 PM EDT
Quoted:
cool! thanks for sharing!
I wonder if a normal 55/62gr FMJ bullet (without steel core) would do the same


yes it can ( M193)
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 1:46:15 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
cool! thanks for sharing!
I wonder if a normal 55/62gr FMJ bullet (without steel core) would do the same


yes it can ( M193)


I have wondered the same thing.
I think not.

In the past, I shot an old PC disc drive with M193, 7.62x39mm wolf, and 235gr 45 acp+p ball.
The M193 had the least effect, it didn't even penetrate the sheet metal case on the outside of the disc drive.
The AK47 at least went 1/2 way through the sheet metal box + drive disc.

In shooting the steel with the ss109, there is a big splat that penetrates about 0.25", then
there is a penetrator sized hole for the second 0.25" and out the back.  

Good performance on soft targets means poor performance on hard targets.
Good performance on hard targes means poor performance of soft targets.

I'm going to be shooting on Friday.  I may try to shoot the same steel with some M193.
I swear, you f'ers are going to cause me to put out my eye or worse.
(I need some arfcom eyeball insurance for dumb asses).

Link Posted: 4/27/2011 7:03:19 PM EDT
Tag for info and possible LULZ.

I have a .5" steel plate of unknown composition. Shot the hell out of it with 75gr Prvi, M855, .45 ACP, 7.62X51mm M80 ball, Yugo 7.62X39mm, and 7.62x54R. Plate was about 25m and at about 45 degrees to the flight of the bullets. Now I wish I had done more formal testing. The M855 and 75gr Prvi seemed to penetrate about the same. The 7.62X39mm put a little deeper dents than the .223/5.56mm. The 7.62X51mm and 7.62X54R were way deeper with the 54R seeming to be just a bit more. The only ones that went through were the 7.62 NATO that hit the same spot with a mag through the M1A. I have another plate almost identical that I can do more formal testing with if I remember.



Link Posted: 4/27/2011 8:40:34 PM EDT
aat 50 yards m855 has penetrated much deeper
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:58:40 AM EDT
1/4" w/ M193 yes. 1/2" w/ M193 not in my experience. The only 223/5.56 I have been able to get to penetrate was M855 w/ SS-109.. It is just the steel tip that penetrates.
I have shot a lot of factory and handloads at steel plate since 1997.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 6:22:00 AM EDT


I have shot the same 0.5" steel plates with 30-06 M2 AP rounds at 50 yards and normal incidence.
Usually, the projo passed clean through the steel.
In one case, the carbide penetrator almost passed through the steel, but lodged in the exit hole.
I thought it meant that the 30-06 had barely enough juice to penetrate the steel.
(Maybe the plate was not well supported and tipped when being shot?)

I'm not much of an AR shooter, but I was surprised to see ss109 penetrate ~ 0.58" (0.5" thick at 30-degree angle).
Penetration seems to be at least as good as a 30-06 for soft steel.  

Maybe the high projectile velocity and small cross sectional area of the 556 help it penetrate.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 9:58:40 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
cool! thanks for sharing!
I wonder if a normal 55/62gr FMJ bullet (without steel core) would do the same


yes it can ( M193)


I have wondered the same thing.
I think not.

In the past, I shot an old PC disc drive with M193, 7.62x39mm wolf, and 235gr 45 acp+p ball.
The M193 had the least effect, it didn't even penetrate the sheet metal case on the outside of the disc drive.
The AK47 at least went 1/2 way through the sheet metal box + drive disc.

In shooting the steel with the ss109, there is a big splat that penetrates about 0.25", then
there is a penetrator sized hole for the second 0.25" and out the back.  

Good performance on soft targets means poor performance on hard targets.
Good performance on hard targes means poor performance of soft targets.

I'm going to be shooting on Friday.  I may try to shoot the same steel with some M193.
I swear, you f'ers are going to cause me to put out my eye or worse.
(I need some arfcom eyeball insurance for dumb asses).



This does not sound correct to me. I don't want to call BS on ya but it sounds a bit off. I have see weak assed Wolf 55gr destroy disk drives and go totally through plate steel at 100yds. M193 is a decent hard target penetrator due to the velocity alone.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 8:08:19 AM EDT
Bump for above pics.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 4:48:05 PM EDT
If you're saying you shot through 1/2" steel, ok....but when I tried it 10+ years back, I don't think it made it through. Maybe the steel I was using was a bit harder.
I think I tried a 3/4 piece of T-6 aluminum and the penetrator squeeked through with a bit of wandering. I guess I'll have to do some trials.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:12:59 PM EDT
Please do try it again at various distances (not closer, too dangerous) and various different angles.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:54:13 PM EDT
Quoted:
If you're saying you shot through 1/2" steel, ok....but when I tried it 10+ years back, I don't think it made it through. Maybe the steel I was using was a bit harder.
I think I tried a 3/4 piece of T-6 aluminum and the penetrator squeeked through with a bit of wandering. I guess I'll have to do some trials.


The type of steel makes a HUGE difference. The OP made a point to say he was shooting at mild steel. Much thinner armor steel will stop these, and when you get some scrap steel it's pretty hard know what you've got.

Do be careful, I got a decent hunk of bullet in my thigh from shooting an old junked truck frame with a .44 magnum... back when I was a kid. I'm well and fully skeered anymore.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 1:45:05 PM EDT
+1.  Lead bullets typically shatter, but anything with a steel core can and will bounce back.  I've had too many ricochetes come back at me to shoot at steel plate closer than 100 yards.  Even then the target can't be vertical.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 6:27:16 PM EDT
Ok funny story to tell.
A while back say.... 2004 or 2005 time frame my company (Bravo) was using one of Quantico’s ranges for some static unknown distance practice / September ammo dump.
Some staffNCO convinced the OIC that we would get more out of it if we used these (click here to see an example)  kinds of things instead of those green plastic Ivan guys.
The ranges we shot at were between 75 to 200 yds. It was fun but you still couldn't really tell if it was your shot that made it ring. Oh and I remember someone crying because they wouldn't fall down because the 5.56 didn't have enough "knock down power".
Well when we were done who ever those poppers belonged to must have been pissed!!! Each one had at least 200 holes in them! All holes no dings or dents. That’s why they didn't fall down. Ha Ha still makes me laugh.
They were really heavy I'd say 1/2 inch thick. We used standard M855 rounds.
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 8:44:43 AM EDT



Quoted:


Please do try it again at various distances (not closer, too dangerous) and various different angles.


pick one a and stick with it.  they mean the same thing.



on a more serious note, i would like to see some of these penetration tests performed on real steel armor plate and maybe some other products that are used for armor.  not mild steel.  its probably very expensive to test everything I would want to test.

thanks for sharing though, its interesting.
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 9:16:32 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
cool! thanks for sharing!
I wonder if a normal 55/62gr FMJ bullet (without steel core) would do the same


yes it can ( M193)


I have wondered the same thing.
I think not.

In the past, I shot an old PC disc drive with M193, 7.62x39mm wolf, and 235gr 45 acp+p ball.
The M193 had the least effect, it didn't even penetrate the sheet metal case on the outside of the disc drive.
The AK47 at least went 1/2 way through the sheet metal box + drive disc.

In shooting the steel with the ss109, there is a big splat that penetrates about 0.25", then
there is a penetrator sized hole for the second 0.25" and out the back.  

Good performance on soft targets means poor performance on hard targets.
Good performance on hard targes means poor performance of soft targets.

I'm going to be shooting on Friday.  I may try to shoot the same steel with some M193.
I swear, you f'ers are going to cause me to put out my eye or worse.
(I need some arfcom eyeball insurance for dumb asses).



This does not sound correct to me. I don't want to call BS on ya but it sounds a bit off. I have see weak assed Wolf 55gr destroy disk drives and go totally through plate steel at 100yds. M193 is a decent hard target penetrator due to the velocity alone.


Yeah Ive shot alot of cars/trucks ,steel plates,gas tanks etc!
M193 velocity is the key

Been there done that

Just depends on the type of steel you are shooting and range

I have steel plates that m855/M193 cant even make a dent
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 10:47:35 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
cool! thanks for sharing!
I wonder if a normal 55/62gr FMJ bullet (without steel core) would do the same


yes it can ( M193)


I have wondered the same thing.
I think not.

In the past, I shot an old PC disc drive with M193, 7.62x39mm wolf, and 235gr 45 acp+p ball.
The M193 had the least effect, it didn't even penetrate the sheet metal case on the outside of the disc drive.
The AK47 at least went 1/2 way through the sheet metal box + drive disc.

In shooting the steel with the ss109, there is a big splat that penetrates about 0.25", then
there is a penetrator sized hole for the second 0.25" and out the back.  

Good performance on soft targets means poor performance on hard targets.
Good performance on hard targes means poor performance of soft targets.

I'm going to be shooting on Friday.  I may try to shoot the same steel with some M193.
I swear, you f'ers are going to cause me to put out my eye or worse.
(I need some arfcom eyeball insurance for dumb asses).



This does not sound correct to me. I don't want to call BS on ya but it sounds a bit off. I have see weak assed Wolf 55gr destroy disk drives and go totally through plate steel at 100yds. M193 is a decent hard target penetrator due to the velocity alone.


Yeah Ive shot alot of cars/trucks ,steel plates,gas tanks etc!
M193 velocity is the key

Been there done that

Just depends on the type of steel you are shooting and range

I have steel plates that m855/M193 cant even make a dent


I have some AR500 plates too but last I checked disk drives were not made from armor plate.
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