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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/30/2005 4:53:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 4:55:30 PM EDT by Dsking85]
"im just curious as to why you would put a scope on an AR15. they're a short range urban combat rifle. if you want to get the lead out further, id just assume own an M16A3. Area target on an AR is the same as point target on an A3"

someone help because i can't figure it out
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:56:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 4:56:34 PM EDT by Hunterex]
Typical speech from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about but like to think they do.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:57:42 PM EDT
He's probably thinking that an "AR15" is an M4 or shorter barreled version and thus un-deserving of a scope. However, the M16A3, being the longer barreled version, merits a scope

AR15 = M4
M15A3 = longer barrel and thus longer range.

That's my Sherlock Holmes for the day.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:57:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hunterex:
Typical speech from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about but like to think they do.

that's what i figured, but he really sounded like he knew what he was talking about before that.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:01:56 PM EDT
Um...sounds like someone has no clue what they're talking aboot...
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:02:29 PM EDT
haha, this is what he just said after i told him the truth...

. no the AR15 is the shortened version of the M16. there were 3 versions of the m16--the A1, the A2, and the A3. the A1 was the one that was used in vietnam. the A2 differs from the A1 in that it is semi-auto and 3 round burst fire only. the A3 incorporates those features but the carrying handle has been redesigned to incorporate mounting rails for a scope/other equipment. the AR, from what they told us at OCS was just a shortened barrel, collapsable stock (sometimes) m16A3
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:07:16 PM EDT
Just what I thought, Dr. Watson.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:11:34 PM EDT
Cool. I feel like less of a newb now.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:26:05 PM EDT
You were given a AR15 when you went to OCS?

I didnt know they gave civilian rifles to the military.

The shorter version is M4 (notice M=Military as in M16)

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:26:49 PM EDT
He's got it all figured out.

Ask him about the M16A4s used by the USMC.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:27:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hanibal:
Cool. I feel like less of a newb now.



+1

Seydou
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:31:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hunterex:
Typical speech from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about but like to think they do.



+1
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:32:11 PM EDT
Omy Gawd.... Fun ! Ask him if he was with the second SOG in Nam? Or better yet ask him if he was a door gunner on a huey? I love those guys.... they crack me up.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:58:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 6:00:58 PM EDT by BravoCompanyUSA]
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:02:14 PM EDT
Sounds like he had a crainial-rectal inversion.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:08:45 PM EDT
Unless he was in the Air Force where the lowers say AR-15. Which "might" explain alot.

Air Force + Officer + rifle = glazed look on most air-weenies faces.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:17:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dsking85:
haha, this is what he just said after i told him the truth...

. no the AR15 is the shortened version of the M16. there were 3 versions of the m16--the A1, the A2, and the A3. the A1 was the one that was used in vietnam. the A2 differs from the A1 in that it is semi-auto and 3 round burst fire only. the A3 incorporates those features but the carrying handle has been redesigned to incorporate mounting rails for a scope/other equipment. the AR, from what they told us at OCS was just a shortened barrel, collapsable stock (sometimes) m16A3



The military has much bs re: weapons.
The 5.56 tumbling bullet
The 5.56 bullet that blows limbs off
Not being able to use .50 cal on personel.
etc.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:17:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Norge1956:
You were given a AR15 when you went to OCS?

I didnt know they gave civilian rifles to the military.

The shorter version is M4 (notice M=Military as in M16)






M=model
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:25:17 PM EDT
lol it kills me to think that a 24" barreled gun can take out a yote at 800 yds, but not worthy of a scope, how the hell could I see the yote without it?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:34:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 6:37:09 PM EDT by olds442tyguy]

Originally Posted By Dsking85:
haha, this is what he just said after i told him the truth...

. no the AR15 is the shortened version of the M16. there were 3 versions of the m16--the A1, the A2, and the A3. the A1 was the one that was used in vietnam. the A2 differs from the A1 in that it is semi-auto and 3 round burst fire only. the A3 incorporates those features but the carrying handle has been redesigned to incorporate mounting rails for a scope/other equipment. the AR, from what they told us at OCS was just a shortened barrel, collapsable stock (sometimes) m16A3


AR15 is the civilian designation for all M16/M4/CAR type rifles and carbines in civilian semi auto form. The M16A3, contrary to popular belief, is not a flat top. The M16A4 is the flat top, while an M16A3 is a full auto fixed carrying handle with A2 upgrades, and full auto instead of burst like the M16A2.

So if all of the AR manufacturers wanted to be politically correct, they wouldn't use the A3 designation to represent a flat top. Most companies do call it an A4, like it should, but some still call it the A3.

The CAR15 and the M4 are the shorter versions.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:43:18 PM EDT
lol OT noobs.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:51:48 PM EDT
Have him wear a belt cantine...then send him out 200yrds...then blow a round through his cantine and call him back...and tell him...

"That's why I have a scope on my M4gery Carbine"

Then ask him...

"Wouldja like me to use iron sights and we'll try it again?"

That should help him to gain a better understanding.

L8R, Bill.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:59:28 PM EDT
Oh shit, thats what they are teaching officers these days?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:02:22 PM EDT
Was it someone on here that said it. If so tell us who... you know how much people on here love to rip on people who talk BS.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:24:38 PM EDT
Me thinks this is a now-it-all that doesn't-quite-know-all.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:24:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 7:25:05 PM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By Dsking85:
haha, this is what he just said after i told him the truth...

. no the AR15 is the shortened version of the M16. there were 3 versions of the m16--the A1, the A2, and the A3. the A1 was the one that was used in vietnam. the A2 differs from the A1 in that it is semi-auto and 3 round burst fire only. the A3 incorporates those features but the carrying handle has been redesigned to incorporate mounting rails for a scope/other equipment. the AR, from what they told us at OCS was just a shortened barrel, collapsable stock (sometimes) m16A3



Your buddy doesn't know shit.

There are five variants to a M16

M16
M16A1
M16A2
M16A3
­M16A4

And some interim/experimental variants

XM16E1
XM16A1E1
XM16A2E­4
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:39:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 7:40:19 PM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:

Originally Posted By Dsking85:
haha, this is what he just said after i told him the truth...

. no the AR15 is the shortened version of the M16. there were 3 versions of the m16--the A1, the A2, and the A3. the A1 was the one that was used in vietnam. the A2 differs from the A1 in that it is semi-auto and 3 round burst fire only. the A3 incorporates those features but the carrying handle has been redesigned to incorporate mounting rails for a scope/other equipment. the AR, from what they told us at OCS was just a shortened barrel, collapsable stock (sometimes) m16A3


AR15 is the civilian designation for all M16/M4/CAR type rifles and carbines in civilian semi auto form. The M16A3, contrary to popular belief, is not a flat top. The M16A4 is the flat top, while an M16A3 is a full auto fixed carrying handle with A2 upgrades, and full auto instead of burst like the M16A2.

So if all of the AR manufacturers wanted to be politically correct, they wouldn't use the A3 designation to represent a flat top. Most companies do call it an A4, like it should, but some still call it the A3.

The CAR15 and the M4 are the shorter versions.



And you are wrong.

The term AR-15 denotes any 5.56 Stoner Direct impingment rifle. Including M16, M4, XM177, SP1 , LE6920, etc.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:50:16 PM EDT
OK, I think we have established that his friend is a tool... Thank you, please drive thru.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:41:56 PM EDT
haha, not my friend. just someone who was arguing w/ me on another forum.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:42:45 PM EDT
Far be it from me to argue with any of those of you who are experts, so I'll simply throw this picture up for your AR15/M16 arguments.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:15:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 10:17:27 PM EDT by GAU5-A-A]

Originally Posted By BravoSierra:
Unless he was in the Air Force where the lowers say AR-15. Which "might" explain alot.

Air Force + Officer + rifle = glazed look on most air-weenies faces.





Excuse Me?

Care to clarify that statement?

This USAF officer carried a GAU-5/A/A for 80-90 hrs a week. And the look on my face could've burned holes thru trees. Had a few hundred troops very similar to me. We didn't play nice, didn't have to, nobody expected us to. Everything was taken deadly serious when you're working with live nukes and have plenty of amateur terrorists trying to screw with you.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:19:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Far be it from me to argue with any of those of you who are experts, so I'll simply throw this picture up for your AR15/M16 arguments.

img97.imageshack.us/img97/5143/greengunandfirends0276qb.jpg



Colt Armalite I do like that front pivot pin though, threaded on each side?
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 3:02:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Your buddy doesn't know shit.




and he surely doesnt hang out at AR15.com.......



cause if he did.............he'd know WTF he was talkin' 'bout.


Booyah!
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 4:28:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
Then he's confusing the M16A3 with the M16A4. Most folks in the service will never see or hear of the M16A3 (It is a full auto M16A2 for the USN). So maybe he is looking a the civilian normanclature and seeing the A3 as a flat top . . . . . . . or maybe he just lost him mind


I've seen an A3 lower fitted to an A4 upper a couple of times. IIRC there is even a Navy training CD that has an A3 in that configuration. Extremely rare though, and no doubt due to some local armorer.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 4:32:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dsking85:
"im just curious as to why you would put a scope on an AR15. they're a short range urban combat rifle. if you want to get the lead out further, id just assume own an M16A3. Area target on an AR is the same as point target on an A3"

someone help because i can't figure it out



A few things come to mind...

Why are you asking us what is he talking about? Why didn't you just ask him?

His comments on AR15 vs. M16 shows he has no clue what he's talking about.

Do you have a scope on your AR15 (hence his comment)? If so, then why didn't you just explain to him why you do?
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:22:19 AM EDT

Unless he was in the Air Force where the lowers say AR-15. Which "might" explain alot.

Air Force + Officer + rifle = glazed look on most air-weenies faces.



Who you callin weenie?!
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:40:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dsking85:
"im just curious as to why you would put a scope on an AR15. they're a short range urban combat rifle. if you want to get the lead out further, id just assume own an M16A3. Area target on an AR is the same as point target on an A3"

someone help because i can't figure it out




Perhaps he could be comparing the A1 to the A2/A3. It could work out that the area target of an A1 is the point target of A2/A3??



M16A2 Page 3

Max effective range:
550 meters (individual/point targets)
800 meters (area targets)
Max range:
3534 meters




M16A1

Maximum effective range . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..460 meters



Shok
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 7:30:39 AM EDT
I used a T168, 6X scope on my M4 for the better part of my tour in Iraq. It allowed me to see in detail what the locals around our perimeter were doing and I was able to engage targets with more precision.

I won't deploy without one now.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 10:53:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cgv69:

Originally Posted By Dsking85:
"im just curious as to why you would put a scope on an AR15. they're a short range urban combat rifle. if you want to get the lead out further, id just assume own an M16A3. Area target on an AR is the same as point target on an A3"

someone help because i can't figure it out



A few things come to mind...

Why are you asking us what is he talking about? Why didn't you just ask him?

His comments on AR15 vs. M16 shows he has no clue what he's talking about.

Do you have a scope on your AR15 (hence his comment)? If so, then why didn't you just explain to him why you do?

i tried, but he just says i'm wrong. i do have a scope on my AR15, and told him that i like to shoot 300 yards with it, but he corrects me and lets me know that my rifle is not good for anything but a short range entry weapon.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 11:31:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 12:05:41 PM EDT by kjedmondson182]

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
Then he's confusing the M16A3 with the M16A4. Most folks in the service will never see or hear of the M16A3 (It is a full auto M16A2 for the USN). So maybe he is looking a the civilian normanclature and seeing the A3 as a flat top . . . . . . . or maybe he just lost him mind


I've seen an A3 lower fitted to an A4 upper a couple of times. IIRC there is even a Navy training CD that has an A3 in that configuration. Extremely rare though, and no doubt due to some local armorer.



i thought for sure that both A3's and A4's were flat tops......interesting
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 11:37:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:

Originally Posted By Dsking85:
haha, this is what he just said after i told him the truth...

. no the AR15 is the shortened version of the M16. there were 3 versions of the m16--the A1, the A2, and the A3. the A1 was the one that was used in vietnam. the A2 differs from the A1 in that it is semi-auto and 3 round burst fire only. the A3 incorporates those features but the carrying handle has been redesigned to incorporate mounting rails for a scope/other equipment. the AR, from what they told us at OCS was just a shortened barrel, collapsable stock (sometimes) m16A3


AR15 is the civilian designation for all M16/M4/CAR type rifles and carbines in civilian semi auto form. The M16A3, contrary to popular belief, is not a flat top. The M16A4 is the flat top, while an M16A3 is a full auto fixed carrying handle with A2 upgrades, and full auto instead of burst like the M16A2.

So if all of the AR manufacturers wanted to be politically correct, they wouldn't use the A3 designation to represent a flat top. Most companies do call it an A4, like it should, but some still call it the A3.

The CAR15 and the M4 are the shorter versions.



And you are wrong.

The term AR-15 denotes any 5.56 Stoner Direct impingment rifle. Including M16, M4, XM177, SP1 , LE6920, etc.



AR15 is the series of rifle, you are correct. However, the designation "AR15" has been accepted as being the civilian model. Sorry for not being clear enough on that.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 11:59:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:

Originally Posted By Dsking85:
haha, this is what he just said after i told him the truth...

. no the AR15 is the shortened version of the M16. there were 3 versions of the m16--the A1, the A2, and the A3. the A1 was the one that was used in vietnam. the A2 differs from the A1 in that it is semi-auto and 3 round burst fire only. the A3 incorporates those features but the carrying handle has been redesigned to incorporate mounting rails for a scope/other equipment. the AR, from what they told us at OCS was just a shortened barrel, collapsable stock (sometimes) m16A3


AR15 is the civilian designation for all M16/M4/CAR type rifles and carbines in civilian semi auto form. The M16A3, contrary to popular belief, is not a flat top. The M16A4 is the flat top, while an M16A3 is a full auto fixed carrying handle with A2 upgrades, and full auto instead of burst like the M16A2.

So if all of the AR manufacturers wanted to be politically correct, they wouldn't use the A3 designation to represent a flat top. Most companies do call it an A4, like it should, but some still call it the A3.

The CAR15 and the M4 are the shorter versions.



And you are wrong.

The term AR-15 denotes any 5.56 Stoner Direct impingment rifle. Including M16, M4, XM177, SP1 , LE6920, etc.



AR15 is the series of rifle, you are correct. However, the designation "AR15" has been accepted as being the civilian model. Sorry for not being clear enough on that.



Agree, however, we should start using the proper nominclature since it makes more sense and is correct anyway.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 12:00:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 12:01:45 PM EDT by BravoSierra]
.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 12:02:30 PM EDT
LOL! Im in the AF, and its what we call everyone related to AFSC's that are related to aircraft or maintenance.



LOL! I've met many officers who dont know anything about rifles. They qual either every 18 months or 3 years with M-9's, not -16's. Put them in an FTX with a rifle and watch the fun happen!

"hey, their shoot'n at us, what do we do"

as I begin to engage targets..

"Sir, you might try shooting back"

"well how do I work this thing?"

(you have no idea what runs through my mind at this point of the things I wish I could say aloud)

lmao!

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