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Posted: 1/2/2012 1:03:02 PM EDT
One answer eotec or acog (I have a eotec just trying to weigh the options of an acog or eotec magnifier) thanks also the range I shot at goes out to 330meters if that helps
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 1:13:16 PM EDT
My personal feeling for SHTF is iron sights. Whatever you decide to do regarding optics, become proficient with irons. They don't break, and don't require batteries.
FWIW, I have an ACOG on my SHTF rifle (backed up with good irons). I want a sight that doesn't need batteries, and can take a beating.

Good luck!

Jeff
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 1:38:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2012 1:40:15 PM EDT by hamboneBobby]
For SHTF I doubt you'll be shooting at somebody out to 300m and you wouldn't need magnification at that range anyways. Go with the eotech without magnifier. I prefer aimpoint anyways but thats just a matter of preference. Maybe spend the coin on a decent 10x binoculars. More magnification and you don't need to point your rifle at everything you just want to look at.

ETA: agree 100% with the last guy about adding back up irons and practicing with them too.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 1:43:40 PM EDT
Irons

laser (CQ in the dark)

Glass
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 2:50:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BeelzeBob:
Irons

laser (CQ in the dark)

Glass


that just screams "He Im over here shooting at you just in case you didn't see me"
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 3:37:48 PM EDT
For SHTF Aimpoint > Eotech because Eotech's eat batteries. No hate on the Eotech, it just wouldn't be my choice for SHTF longevity. ACOG = no batteries. And it's fine for up close too if you know what you're doing.

I agree that Irons proficiency is a must.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 3:47:24 PM EDT
I like Aimpoint over EoTech for the reasons others stated about the batteries. No matter what, back up irons is a must (as is proficiency with them). Tritium-equipped iron sights might be a good idea as well.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 3:51:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BCV:
Originally Posted By BeelzeBob:
Irons

laser (CQ in the dark)

Glass


that just screams "He Im over here shooting at you just in case you didn't see me"


Im pretty sure he was referring to IR with NVG

At least I hope so...

Link Posted: 1/2/2012 4:25:11 PM EDT
For SHTF out of the two, ACOG.
The ACOG doesn't require batteries which might not be available, and the ACOG won't be effected by EMP like the Eotech will.
Also having Iron sights on top of the ACOG (NSN model ) is a nice feature for CQB distances.
Tritium lit reticle on the ACOG will help in low light engagements when you don't have the option of a white light/laser.
Its also nice having a reticle/range estimator calibrated out 600 or so meters if you need it (imagine every round will be important in a SHTF situation).


Link Posted: 1/2/2012 5:07:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2012 5:08:19 PM EDT by wyager]
Originally Posted By boarklr:
For SHTF Aimpoint > Eotech because Eotech's eat batteries. No hate on the Eotech, it just wouldn't be my choice for SHTF longevity. ACOG = no batteries. And it's fine for up close too if you know what you're doing.

I agree that Irons proficiency is a must.


I agree. I decided to buy an EOTech over an Aimpoint, for the price, reticle, and a few other reasons, but if I knew that S was gonna HTF, I would have gone for the Aimpoint instead. You don't have to worry about batteries at all. The tritium in a Trijicon will only last about as long as the batteries in an Aimpoint, so a fiber ACOG is also a good idea.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 7:53:51 PM EDT
ACOG. With a BDC you can make hits to 600y and it doesn't take batteries.

I've owned both an EOTech 512 and a TA31F (and RCOA4) and I'll take the ACOG all day long.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 6:30:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 7:29:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By opticsplanet:...and the Trijicon SRS, with a set of rechargeable batteries and my Brunton Solar charger.
I'll admit the SRS has me intrigued. Trijicon did make a few missteps with the last foray in to red dots (e.g. the Tri Power) but it appears they have applied lessons learned to the SRS.

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 12:37:50 PM EDT
While the SRS looks interesting that thing has a TON of electronics that can have issues...even more than an EoTech/Aimpoint. I'm waiting to see how it works out for a couple of years.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:14:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By epilogue:
For SHTF out of the two, ACOG.
The ACOG doesn't require batteries which might not be available, and the ACOG won't be effected by EMP like the Eotech will.
Also having Iron sights on top of the ACOG (NSN model ) is a nice feature for CQB distances.
Tritium lit reticle on the ACOG will help in low light engagements when you don't have the option of a white light/laser.
Its also nice having a reticle/range estimator calibrated out 600 or so meters if you need it (imagine every round will be important in a SHTF situation).




I Agree.

For a SHTF scenerio (which can take many forms), an ACOG would be better. The duration of the SHTF situation and what kind of shooting will be needed dictates an optic that is flexible, durable, and reliable. The ACOG fits these requirements.



Link Posted: 1/4/2012 3:49:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2012 3:55:30 PM EDT by Ughh]
Originally Posted By boarklr:
For SHTF Aimpoint > Eotech because Eotech's eat batteries. No hate on the Eotech, it just wouldn't be my choice for SHTF longevity. ACOG = no batteries. And it's fine for up close too if you know what you're doing.

I agree that Irons proficiency is a must.


I agree. The hours per battery on Aimpoint is by far better than Eotech's. So why not Trijicon fiber optics? Well, being inside a dark building looking out to dusk or daylight diminishes the Trijicon's brightness, depends on how good yoour eyes are i suppose. But then you have to worry about half-life rate of decay on the tritium reticle ones . Like many said, depends on the duration of the SHTF. Iron sights all the way!

But to stay within the parameters of your question: Eotech. Batteries are a dime a dozen, and they last almost a decade without much decay so long as they're new.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 8:21:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By opticsplanet:
An ACOG, and the Trijicon SRS, with a set of rechargeable batteries and my Brunton Solar charger.

Not available until April, so SHTF needs to be postponed briefly.

http://www.trijicon.com/images/news/SRS02_45.jpg

LED lighted 1.75 MOA aiming point that includes ten brightness settings – including three NVG settings. The SRS is powered by a solar panel and a single, common AA battery. This uniquely patented configuration allows the user years of illumination life from a single battery by offering an intuitive "solar assist”, that is, drawing on battery power only when the solar cell requires additional energy support for illumination based on ambient conditions.

And ramen noodles, and Spam Lite (high blood pressure).

Mark H.


Sweet!
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:25:09 PM EDT
ACOG, even if the fiber optic AND tritium fail the reticule will still work since it's etched into the glass.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:58:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By boarklr:
For SHTF Aimpoint > Eotech because Eotech's eat batteries. No hate on the Eotech, it just wouldn't be my choice for SHTF longevity. ACOG = no batteries. And it's fine for up close too if you know what you're doing.

I agree that Irons proficiency is a must.


That's my thinking as well.

Link Posted: 1/5/2012 3:54:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Merc1973:
Originally Posted By opticsplanet:
An ACOG, and the Trijicon SRS, with a set of rechargeable batteries and my Brunton Solar charger.

Not available until April, so SHTF needs to be postponed briefly.

http://www.trijicon.com/images/news/SRS02_45.jpg

LED lighted 1.75 MOA aiming point that includes ten brightness settings – including three NVG settings. The SRS is powered by a solar panel and a single, common AA battery. This uniquely patented configuration allows the user years of illumination life from a single battery by offering an intuitive "solar assist”, that is, drawing on battery power only when the solar cell requires additional energy support for illumination based on ambient conditions.

And ramen noodles, and Spam Lite (high blood pressure).

Mark H.


Sweet!



Do want! Any Idea on price?
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 4:31:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BCV:
Originally Posted By Merc1973:
Originally Posted By opticsplanet:
An ACOG, and the Trijicon SRS, with a set of rechargeable batteries and my Brunton Solar charger.

Not available until April, so SHTF needs to be postponed briefly.

http://www.trijicon.com/images/news/SRS02_45.jpg

LED lighted 1.75 MOA aiming point that includes ten brightness settings – including three NVG settings. The SRS is powered by a solar panel and a single, common AA battery. This uniquely patented configuration allows the user years of illumination life from a single battery by offering an intuitive "solar assist”, that is, drawing on battery power only when the solar cell requires additional energy support for illumination based on ambient conditions.

And ramen noodles, and Spam Lite (high blood pressure).

Mark H.


Sweet!



Do want! Any Idea on price?


$800 with standard mount
$900 with bobro qd mount

I plan to get one when ican
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 1:17:02 PM EDT
ACOG, but the Trigicon Dot SRS or whatever does intrigue me.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 1:30:38 PM EDT
I have both, and would go with the ACOG in ADDITION to quality BUIS.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 1:42:58 PM EDT
Hmmm

I go with either a

#1 TA11F or J with green reticle and a RMR RM04 piggy backed and some decnt iron's as back up

or

#2 Elcan specterDR 1-4 or Specter OS 4X with a RMR on top
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 3:58:41 PM EDT
Well when shtf I'll be chilling with my Eotech exps. A month of baterry life if left on, but why? If they are so close I can't hit the on button I won't have time to aim anyway. Point shoot. I'll take the fastest easiest sight over one with good battery life. Parralax free, still works if the glass is physical damaged as long as ANY glass is left, it's more accurate when used with a magnifier.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 6:28:58 PM EDT
I opted for the Aimpoint M4s instead of an ACOG. I like the adjustability, no need to worry about having the tritium to go out.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 7:57:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By opticsplanet:
An ACOG, and the Trijicon SRS, with a set of rechargeable batteries and my Brunton Solar charger.

Not available until April, so SHTF needs to be postponed briefly.

http://www.trijicon.com/images/news/SRS02_45.jpg

LED lighted 1.75 MOA aiming point that includes ten brightness settings – including three NVG settings. The SRS is powered by a solar panel and a single, common AA battery. This uniquely patented configuration allows the user years of illumination life from a single battery by offering an intuitive "solar assist”, that is, drawing on battery power only when the solar cell requires additional energy support for illumination based on ambient conditions.

And ramen noodles, and Spam Lite (high blood pressure).

Mark H.


Is there a weight on these posted yet?
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 10:42:04 PM EDT
I bought a Trijicon TA01 in 1994 and the Tritium is still glowing strong.

Not as strong as my ACOG150 but still plenty strong to make shots at first lite, last lite and in between.

YMMV

.02

-Arbiter
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 9:22:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 9:23:13 AM EDT by Mack77]
Tritium has a half life of 12.3 years, I also had a TA-01 over 15 years old that was still usable and like someone noted when it finally does go dim still usable as a day scope. IMO if it uses batteries it's got to be an Aimpoint, the T1 has a battery life of over 3 years on position 8.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:20:56 AM EDT
What about the Leupold Prismatic?

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:14:55 PM EDT
Aimpoint and Trijicon, since you asked about optics. Irons as a basis.

EOTech can suck my balls.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 5:09:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Arbiter:
What about the Leupold Prismatic?


Just mounted one of these on a new build. Nice clear glass you would expect from Leupold. The tactical reticle is illuminated but because it is glass etched it is not battery dependent.
Compact size and rock rolid. I opted for a Larue mount instead of the factory supplied mount that was included. Haven't shot it yet but can't imagine why I wouldn't like it.

Link Posted: 1/7/2012 5:55:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Arbiter:
What about the Leupold Prismatic?


The Prismatic is great for those w/severe astigmatism (thx to the focusing ocular) and the etched reticle doesn't need batteries for daytime use.
However, because it's prismatic in design, it has parallax and eye relief like any other magnified optic.
Battery life is 250hrs on the lowest setting (my own tests).
Tomac

Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:58:10 AM EDT
To answer the OP's question, without turning it into another Aimpoint vs EOTech thread, I'd go for the EOTech with a magnifier over an ACOG.

1. ACOG won't give you the speed of target acquisition (up close) that you get with the EOTech.

2. I like the ACOG design, but I wouldn't want 3-4x magnification and no option to go non-magnified without removing the optic. Yes, you can use the Bindon Aiming Concept (BAC) with an ACOG, but it's not going compare to the field of view you get grom an EOTech. And yes, you can mount a mini-reflex type sight on the top of the ACOG, but that puts your head way up there, so I'd assume cheek weld would be an issue.

3. The EOTech with the magnifier isn't going to compare to an ACOG, but it still gives you plenty of mid-range capability. Plus, if the 3x magnification is hindering you, it takes two seconds to flip it out of the way.

4. While the ACOG eliminates the need for a battery, I feel the advantages of an EOTech are well worth taking 30 seconds to change out the batteries on a regular basis. For SHTF, I'd take a AA battery powered EOTech (that's exactly what's sitting on my SHTF gun). In the event shit does hit the proverbial fan, those AA batteries are going to be the easiest battery to find. Better yet, get yourself a couple dozen rechargeable AA batteries, change the batteries out every few weeks (give or take a week), and that's basically a non-isssue. If you have a set of BUIS on it, which you should on a HD/SHTF rifle, then you really don't have to worry.

5. In a SHTF situation, I think you'd be doing most of your shooting well within 100 yards...magnification most likely won't be necessary when you're talking about a target the size of a human torso.

Link Posted: 1/7/2012 9:41:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 9:48:05 AM EDT by CJan_NH]
If the SHTF I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea of needing a magnified optic-at least around here anyway. That said, for those who do want one I would like to suggest that you give some consideration to a short 1-4 zoom. I've been evaluating a 1-4x24 Trijicon AccuPoint TR24, and the more I use it the more I like it.

I currently own several ACOGs, Aimpoint Comp M2s, the AccuPoint I just mentioned, and most recently an EOTech XPS2. Out of all of them, the versatility and capability of the short zoom has forced me to revisit my previous choices in an "all around" defensive optic

Also, while not really firearms related a good pair of binoculars are a nice thing to have as well. My Nikon ActionEX 7x50s were only a fraction of the cost of my Steiners, but they have been very good to me so far.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 10:02:04 AM EDT
In response to the argument against ACOG's because of their high magnification:

I agree. It is more difficult to acquire a target at close range and require a target after recoil at close range when shooting a 4x ACOG then it is when shooting a no magnification optic. However, ACOG's are made in 1.5x and 2x. Both are much faster than the 3x and 4x at close range (personal experience).
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 2:06:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tomac:
Originally Posted By Arbiter:
What about the Leupold Prismatic?


The Prismatic is great for those w/severe astigmatism (thx to the focusing ocular) and the etched reticule doesn't need batteries for daytime use.
However, because it's prismatic in design, it has parallax and eye relief like any other magnified optic.
Battery life is 250hrs on the lowest setting (my own tests).
Tomac



+1

I got one when they first came out to evaluate, I will also add that you CANNOT use BUIS with the prismatic and the eye relief is very short for a 1x optic. Another thing I noticed is the prism design gives a slight "fish eye" affect to the sight picture.

My opinion on the prismatic is that Aimpoints and EoTechs are much better options if you do not have astigmatism due to the unlimited eye relief and much better battery life.

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