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Posted: 11/16/2012 7:08:05 AM EST
i recently dumped all of my rounds into .50 cans and i used shipping cardboard to soften the insides of the cans.

i know that original packaging cardboard won't effect the ammo, but i noticed 99% of them have an ink coating on the inner of the box.

will normal shipping cardboard fast track corrosion?







Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:20:48 AM EST
I wouldn't think so. As long as there is no moisture in the cardboard.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:26:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By FreedomFighterKS:
I wouldn't think so. As long as there is no moisture in the cardboard.

i put some desiccant in the cans and will leave them in there for a few weeks to draw any moisture out, then i will remove the desiccant
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:55:27 AM EST
Yes.

Brown paper, including cardboard and manila envelopes is usually made from recycled paper.
It is highly acidic and high in sulfur content. It off gasses and accelerates oxidation and corrosion.
It's highly damaging to the silver in photographic emulsions and also corrodes other metals.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:58:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 7:58:40 AM EST by ARddiction]
dang,
what could i use as a substitute for padding?

my cans get sloshed around sometimes and i don't want the ammo to dent

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:00:35 AM EST
Dent?? Are you dropping your ammo cans from a building or something?

-Deke
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:18:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By DekeD:
Dent?? Are you dropping your ammo cans from a building or something?

-Deke

nope, but they get pushed over from time to time. for example driving to shoot, i drive on a trail off-road and they have flown across the back of my car from hitting a massive hole.

I'm careless with them to be honest, and it results in dented casings.. i know this from previous cans, the casings are still useable. i just want to add a little protection
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:45:29 AM EST
I've been tossing my loose ammo in cans for years with no padding needed. Never had a dent in my ammo from that and I do not baby my ammo cans in the field.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 10:58:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By ColonelHurtz:
Yes.

Brown paper, including cardboard and manila envelopes is usually made from recycled paper.
It is highly acidic and high in sulfur content. It off gasses and accelerates oxidation and corrosion.
It's highly damaging to the silver in photographic emulsions and also corrodes other metals.


Also known to accelerate Global Warming and Nuclear Winter (see Samson Option), and the resutlting superstorms where the two meet.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 11:22:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By puskrat:
Originally Posted By ColonelHurtz:
Yes.

Brown paper, including cardboard and manila envelopes is usually made from recycled paper.
It is highly acidic and high in sulfur content. It off gasses and accelerates oxidation and corrosion.
It's highly damaging to the silver in photographic emulsions and also corrodes other metals.


Also known to accelerate Global Warming and Nuclear Winter (see Samson Option), and the resutlting superstorms where the two meet.


He asked a technical question, I gave him a technical answer.
I'll remind you this is a technical forum and not GD.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:01:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 5:02:49 PM EST by pdm]
Carboard as a source of corrosion

Note slides 12 and 13
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:14:05 PM EST
So do dessicants help?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:51:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By pdm:
Carboard as a source of corrosion

Note slides 12 and 13

thanks!!
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:52:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stump70:
So do dessicants help?

they won't help stop the acid corrosion..

but i use them to get rid of any lingering moisture and then discard them after a few weeks to be sure my cans are dry as can be on the inside
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 1:52:25 PM EST
I wonder how come my 5.56 ammo has been in this can since 1992 and it has not had a problem?
And this 1978 308 ammo has been in a box with no trouble since , well 1978.
Its simple, as long as the card board stays dry and no moisture is present it does not corrode.









Link Posted: 11/17/2012 3:21:12 PM EST
Actually, the government requires corrugated cardboard liners in a lot of their ammo cans.
I have a regular source for ammo cans that are USGI, and they're brand new.
They are cans that have been pulled from production lots for government ammo and munitions lot testing.
The contents have been removed and fired for testing, so they're empty other than the occasional strippers and spoons, and the vast majority of the cans I get still have the corrugated cardboard liners in them.
I usually reuse the pre-cut cardboards when I re-pack the cans, or use them as field expedient targets.
So, I'd think that if the corrugated cardboard was a serious issue the government wouldn't require that contractors be putting it in the cans at the factory.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 3:48:13 AM EST
Random brown corrugated cardboard may or may not be recycled, and if it is it may or may not be high in acid or sulfur. The cardboard used in GI ammo packing is new material and meets some GI standard - it does not contribute to corrosion by itself. However, ammo plants are maintained in a relatively stable environmental state, with controlled temperature and humidity, so when the ammo cans are packed, the air inside is dry enough to not be a problem.

If you're worried about contact with cardboard contacting your brass, you can line it with wax paper, which is neutral for just about anything.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:20:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gator57:
Actually, the government requires corrugated cardboard liners in a lot of their ammo cans.
I have a regular source for ammo cans that are USGI, and they're brand new.
They are cans that have been pulled from production lots for government ammo and munitions lot testing.
The contents have been removed and fired for testing, so they're empty other than the occasional strippers and spoons, and the vast majority of the cans I get still have the corrugated cardboard liners in them.
I usually reuse the pre-cut cardboards when I re-pack the cans, or use them as field expedient targets.
So, I'd think that if the corrugated cardboard was a serious issue the government wouldn't require that contractors be putting it in the cans at the factory.



This has me wondering as well. I posted above the .pdf that says specifically to avoid cardboard when packing bare metal, due to potential corrosion. What has me wondering is that virtually ALL .mil 1.4S has some cardboard inside the can. Maybe there's some milspec standard on low acid cardboard?

Link Posted: 11/18/2012 10:56:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 11:00:32 AM EST by ricochet7]
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Random brown corrugated cardboard may or may not be recycled, and if it is it may or may not be high in acid or sulfur. The cardboard used in GI ammo packing is new material and meets some GI standard - it does not contribute to corrosion by itself. However, ammo plants are maintained in a relatively stable environmental state, with controlled temperature and humidity, so when the ammo cans are packed, the air inside is dry enough to not be a problem.

If you're worried about contact with cardboard contacting your brass, you can line it with wax paper, which is neutral for just about anything.


This +1 - If you have known cardboard that is used for ammunition, you are usually safe. If you use random cardboard from unknown sources, you may/may not be safe.
I do not know how you'd verify which is which. I do know I have a bit of WWII ammo that is still in it's origonl boxes (45 & 30-06) and all of it looks pristine.
I have some 30-06AP that was from the Korean war era that shows corrosion, I dunno if this was from the cardboard or improper storage.
I would ALMOST bet that any cardboard that is used in ammo boxes is neutral, have heard some is not.
It still should be kept dry. YMMV

Edit for editneeds
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 2:37:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By pdm:
This has me wondering as well. I posted above the .pdf that says specifically to avoid cardboard when packing bare metal, due to potential corrosion. What has me wondering is that virtually ALL .mil 1.4S has some cardboard inside the can. Maybe there's some milspec standard on low acid cardboard?

Well, they do sell VCI protective paper, so to them any other packing products are evil as all hell and should be avoided.
Kinda like the plastic magazine manufacturers that preach that aluminum magazines will fail if they get wet, are bumped against your leg, if left fully loaded during a full moon, if held too close to a barking dog, etc.
Just a sales pitch, and not necessarily all that truthful at that.
If I were packing bare metal products in an unsealed, non waterproof container, I'd probably avoid cardboard as well.
But ammo, in a properly sealed ammo can, cardboard shouldn't be an issue at all.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 3:29:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARddiction:
dang,
what could i use as a substitute for padding?


go to a frame shop and get acid free foam core matting.


Or use nothing- you really are over thinking this
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:10:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 4:19:39 PM EST by pdm]
Edit: Wrong thread....
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 5:21:59 PM EST
Ive got a .50cal can of 1941 M1911 .45 ball ammo in the original brown cardboard boxes. My grandpa's best friend had a tremendous stash of 5.56, .45, and .308 and this was part of it. The stuff looks brand new. I need to take a picture of it next to new production .45 so you can see how well preserved it is.

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:49:50 AM EST
I tried spraying the interior of a couple of my cans with that rubber sealant, so far its worked pretty well.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 5:44:24 AM EST
Just fire the dents out and dont worry about it!

Originally Posted By ARddiction:

Originally Posted By DekeD:
Dent?? Are you dropping your ammo cans from a building or something?

-Deke

nope, but they get pushed over from time to time. for example driving to shoot, i drive on a trail off-road and they have flown across the back of my car from hitting a massive hole.

I'm careless with them to be honest, and it results in dented casings.. i know this from previous cans, the casings are still useable. i just want to add a little protection


Link Posted: 11/19/2012 8:12:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 8:15:42 AM EST by bfoosh06]
If I was going to use cardboard in my ammo cans ( I prefer not to... ).... You could shellac the cardboard to help seal it against the "acid".

Paint a seal coat on all of it,edges and all , let it dry completely, ( that way the next coat doesn't just keep soaking in... ) then a finish coat. Heck you could probably even figure out a dipping system to coat the cardboard...
.
I know that seems excessive, but its just a thought. Shellac seals out all sorts of stuff.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 8:52:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By ARddiction:
dang,
what could i use as a substitute for padding?


go to a frame shop and get acid free foam core matting.


Or use nothing- you really are over thinking this

i think i am to
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:17:29 AM EST
Don't know the exact product name, but someone maks a paper like sheet that repels corrosion, like comes in reloading dies and other items.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:05:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By Hayboy:
Don't know the exact product name, but someone maks a paper like sheet that repels corrosion, like comes in reloading dies and other items.


That's the vapor barrier stuff mentioned above. Usually it's found in die boxes as a small square of cardboard...
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 12:31:01 AM EST
The cardboard used in packing ammo is acid free. Just like the stiffeners used by comic book collectors. Unlike normal cardboard it's not acidic and does not promote corrosion.
There was a lot of the W. German 7.62 that had the wrong cardboard liners in it and they corroded. I don't remember the year or if it was MEN or DAG though.


There's little point in trying to protect your ammo by lining the cans though. If it tips over the ammo hitting other rounds will cause more damage. It's possible to get round to go off inside a cardboard box if it's dropped hard enough. That round of .45 can even set off another one if the bullet or case (more likely) were to hit the primer of a second round. And that could damage a third or fourth. Luckily if such a thing were to happen, it would just be a couple rounds, and the UPS driver delivering the box might not even have noticed the pops.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 3:52:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARddiction:
dang,
what could i use as a substitute for padding?

my cans get sloshed around sometimes and i don't want the ammo to dent



Get a pack of foam pieces... About an 1/8" thick at your local craft shop. Drop 1 or 2 of these in the bottom of the ammo can, then put the loose rounds with NO PAPER in gallon ziplocks. Fill up can and shut it up. Add some desiccant if you want.... Good to go...
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