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Posted: 11/24/2013 8:51:29 AM EST
Hi everyone, went to the range today to try out my new AR 15.. first time shooting it and sadly i had a problem: every few rounds, apparently at random, the bolt would stay in the locked back position, exactly as if the magazine was empty even though it wasnt. this was happening using factory loaded new fiocchi 55gr.
The magazines i used (3) were all brand new and all are made by CAA tactical.
Sometimes it would "jam" (rifle never really jammed, the bolt would simply lock back) every round, sometimes i could go through half a magazine without ever having to close the bolt.
I installed a Magpul BAD lever, could this be relevant? at first i thought that i might be lifting the lever with my index while shooting but i have ensured that that isnt the case.
Anyone have any idea on what would cause this problem? i would gess the magazines COULD be it.. but it wasn't happening constantly, any other idea?
On a side note, i chronoed some Fiocchi .223 55gr FMJ at 730 m/s. Is that normal for a 12"? seems a bit low for a 55grain.
pics of the boomstick can be found on this thread:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/628782_my_new_italian_AR_15___check_it_out_.html
thanks for any help kind sirs.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 8:53:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/24/2013 8:54:15 AM EST by NavyIS2]
CAA makes pretty low quality stuff. Do you have any steel mags you could test it with?

Also check you bad lever. Some uppers dont take them well, and can push them out enough to engage the bolt.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 9:01:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/24/2013 9:02:25 AM EST by ToledoXJ]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NavyIS2:
CAA makes pretty low quality stuff. Do you have any steel mags you could test it with?

Also check you bad lever. Some uppers dont take them well, and can push them out enough to engage the bolt.
View Quote


I wanted a Bad lever myself a year ago but found info on here that some guns don't play well with them so I passed.
I also don't really like having anything in the trigger area that isn't actually a trigger.
I'd start there and also look at the bolt catch to be sure its operating properly (return spring is doing its job)

Nothing like issues with a new gun on the 1st outing to bum you out, especially since you have to register the ammo.
Good luck man. Start with the stuff you can systematically test, the above items and find a good GI mag.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 9:02:44 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NavyIS2:
CAA makes pretty low quality stuff. Do you have any steel mags you could test it with?

Also check you bad lever. Some uppers dont take them well, and can push them out enough to engage the bolt.
View Quote



Yep, take the BAD off and try again and you probably won't have the issue.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 9:02:47 AM EST
Ditto on the first post. Take out the bad lever real quick and see if you're still getting the malfunction
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 9:05:27 AM EST
^^^ do what he said.....get some pmags and take the bad lever off to see if that's whats causing it.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 9:06:18 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NavyIS2:
CAA makes pretty low quality stuff. Do you have any steel mags you could test it with?

Also check you bad lever. Some uppers dont take them well, and can push them out enough to engage the bolt.
View Quote

+2 waiting on my phase 5 tactical ebr hopefully I have no issues with it.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 9:21:09 AM EST
unfortunately I am no longer home, so i can't test it out at least for a week, but at least now i have some food for thought and something to work on.
never tried shooting without the BAD lever, that might be a problem, i guess i will try removing it.
also here in italy israeli stuff is easier to find compared to american stuff cuz of ITAR.
i have a steel E-lander (also israeli) mag i can try out though.
given the symptoms is there any chance of the actual weapon being the problem? that would be terrible.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 9:28:40 AM EST
I know Troy is a dirty word here, but whenever I have clearance issues from my BAD levers, I switch them to the Troy version, which has a slimmer rear profile.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 9:40:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By MirindoR:
every few rounds, apparently at random, the bolt would stay in the locked back position,

I installed a Magpul BAD lever, could this be relevant?
View Quote
take it off. this is the problem
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 9:44:04 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MirindoR:
unfortunately I am no longer home, so i can't test it out at least for a week, but at least now i have some food for thought and something to work on.
never tried shooting without the BAD lever, that might be a problem, i guess i will try removing it.
also here in italy israeli stuff is easier to find compared to american stuff cuz of ITAR.
i have a steel E-lander (also israeli) mag i can try out though.
given the symptoms is there any chance of the actual weapon being the problem? that would be terrible.
View Quote



This is 80% likely a mag issues, 10% Bad lever, 5% gun issue, and 5% some goofy combo of things.

Try different mags. Odds are this will solve the issue.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 9:44:43 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MirindoR:
unfortunately I am no longer home, so i can't test it out at least for a week, but at least now i have some food for thought and something to work on.
never tried shooting without the BAD lever, that might be a problem, i guess i will try removing it.
also here in italy israeli stuff is easier to find compared to american stuff cuz of ITAR.
i have a steel E-lander (also israeli) mag i can try out though.
given the symptoms is there any chance of the actual weapon being the problem? that would be terrible.
View Quote


The symptoms you're describing don't really sound at all like a problem with the gun. I've never really heard of a bolt catch being machined incorrectly. So it seems almost definite that it is the magazines or bad lever, with from what I've seen many times it is usually the bad lever. There are many companies now that make bad lever type assist and everyone else has given it a slimmer rear profile to deal with this problem. Next time you go shooting just pop it off and give things a try.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 12:52:57 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NavyIS2:


The symptoms you're describing don't really sound at all like a problem with the gun. I've never really heard of a bolt catch being machined incorrectly. So it seems almost definite that it is the magazines or bad lever, with from what I've seen many times it is usually the bad lever. There are many companies now that make bad lever type assist and everyone else has given it a slimmer rear profile to deal with this problem. Next time you go shooting just pop it off and give things a try.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NavyIS2:
Originally Posted By MirindoR:
unfortunately I am no longer home, so i can't test it out at least for a week, but at least now i have some food for thought and something to work on.
never tried shooting without the BAD lever, that might be a problem, i guess i will try removing it.
also here in italy israeli stuff is easier to find compared to american stuff cuz of ITAR.
i have a steel E-lander (also israeli) mag i can try out though.
given the symptoms is there any chance of the actual weapon being the problem? that would be terrible.


The symptoms you're describing don't really sound at all like a problem with the gun. I've never really heard of a bolt catch being machined incorrectly. So it seems almost definite that it is the magazines or bad lever, with from what I've seen many times it is usually the bad lever. There are many companies now that make bad lever type assist and everyone else has given it a slimmer rear profile to deal with this problem. Next time you go shooting just pop it off and give things a try.


thank you very much, i feel better know knowing that my problem has an easy fix.
it's a pity that i have to remove it because in just one range trip i saw just how faster my reloads were thanks to the BAD lever.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 1:20:20 PM EST
Can you get an ambi release lower in Europe? Something like a seekins precision ambi lower. I lovers a BAD lever until I got a seekins lower.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 1:35:58 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ironbender800:
^^^ do what he said.....get some pmags and take the bad lever off to see if that's whats causing it.
View Quote


I had this happen on a build I did last year. I took the BAD lever off and now it had 3.5K through it with zero failures.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 1:38:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
take it off. this is the problem
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By MirindoR:
every few rounds, apparently at random, the bolt would stay in the locked back position,

I installed a Magpul BAD lever, could this be relevant?
take it off. this is the problem

This
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 1:40:16 PM EST
I own 2 BAD levers, both are in my "gun tools" box.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 2:34:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By balloo93:



Yep, take the BAD off and try again and you probably won't have the issue.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By balloo93:
Originally Posted By NavyIS2:
CAA makes pretty low quality stuff. Do you have any steel mags you could test it with?

Also check you bad lever. Some uppers dont take them well, and can push them out enough to engage the bolt.



Yep, take the BAD off and try again and you probably won't have the issue.



This and find some decent mags.

Dave N
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 5:53:38 PM EST
Some good reading on Bad Lever bad experiences.

Bad Lever
Link Posted: 11/25/2013 2:01:25 AM EST
Try PMags. If that alone doesn't work, lose the BAD
Link Posted: 11/25/2013 5:50:40 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mattgunguy:
Can you get an ambi release lower in Europe? Something like a seekins precision ambi lower. I lovers a BAD lever until I got a seekins lower.
View Quote

yes, armi dallera custom does cnc receivers with ambi release option, but they are very expensive and have long wait times.
i'd rather just remove it.
Link Posted: 11/25/2013 5:51:18 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker:
Some good reading on Bad Lever bad experiences.

Bad Lever
View Quote


on it, thanks!
Link Posted: 11/25/2013 7:01:20 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stumps:
I own 2 BAD levers, both are in my "gun tools" box.
View Quote


I agree. It's a solution to a non-existent problem that cause malfunctions more times than not. Buyer beware.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:53:09 PM EST
Any results on this? Was it the bad lever?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:59:06 PM EST
So many clueless people on this site. Usually when you have this type of problem, it's because you are undergassed. The BCG doesn't travel far enough back so when feeding, it runs out of momentum getting hung up by the top round. Nothing to do with the mag.

Check the gas block. If everything is aligned ok, might have a gunsmith open it up.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:11:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NavyIS2:
CAA makes pretty low quality stuff. Do you have any steel mags you could test it with?

View Quote


Ironic cause I know of no quality steel mags.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:45:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
So many clueless people on this site. Usually when you have this type of problem, it's because you are undergassed. The BCG doesn't travel far enough back so when feeding, it runs out of momentum getting hung up by the top round. Nothing to do with the mag.

Check the gas block. If everything is aligned ok, might have a gunsmith open it up.
View Quote



Yeah...ummm....except he said that the bcg was locking back as if the mag was empty.lots of people with reading comprehension issues on this site. Maybe he is mistaken, but if he isn't, under gassing is not the issue.

Damn pre-13'ers.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:06:45 PM EST
Yep, definately going with teh bad lever. How would a mag engage teh bolt catch when teh follower is still halfway down teh body?

As far as undergassed? If it was undergassed, teh bolt wouldn't be coming back far enough to engage teh bolt catch.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 2:53:06 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jimpole:



Yeah...ummm....except he said that the bcg was locking back as if the mag was empty.lots of people with reading comprehension issues on this site. Maybe he is mistaken, but if he isn't, under gassing is not the issue.

Damn pre-13'ers.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jimpole:
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
So many clueless people on this site. Usually when you have this type of problem, it's because you are undergassed. The BCG doesn't travel far enough back so when feeding, it runs out of momentum getting hung up by the top round. Nothing to do with the mag.

Check the gas block. If everything is aligned ok, might have a gunsmith open it up.



Yeah...ummm....except he said that the bcg was locking back as if the mag was empty.lots of people with reading comprehension issues on this site. Maybe he is mistaken, but if he isn't, under gassing is not the issue.

Damn pre-13'ers.


Lmao!
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 3:35:23 AM EST
as we expected it was the BAD lever..
im pretty annoyed because its an awesome little feature.. only used it once and already loved it.
wished there was a way to make it work :(
At least the porblem had an easy solution. thanks for the advice everyone.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 5:28:57 AM EST
Thanks for the reply. I'm glad the advice helped out. If you can you should check out one of the o es by phase 5. It is similar but the rear face is thinner so it doesn't have as many issues.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 5:31:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 5:37:25 AM EST by halfmoonclip]
Glad you're fixed up.
Also glad you're rid of the 'bad' lever; concur with a PP that only the trigger ought to be in the trigger guard, no matter how convenient it may be for reloads.
How much trouble is it to have an AR in Italy?
Also, I was unable to open the link; do I understand you have a 12" barrel?
Thnx,
Moon
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 5:44:32 AM EST
Some food for thought, It’s always a good idea to fire a new weapon in stock configuration to confirm functionality. This is also the way new AR shooters learn the basic principles within the platform. When I joined the military we were trained and qualified on the M16A2. 20" barrel with iron sights. I became quite proficient with the weapon. Having that knowledge has helped me make informed decisions on what upgrades will suit my purposes. Glad to hear you sorted out the issue, now go shoot that thing!!!
Link Posted: 12/15/2013 10:10:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/15/2013 10:11:07 AM EST by SpeedEBiker]
YMMV, however, I have been using a Tactical Link battery assist lever with great success. Although, I don't see how it would be any different than a B.A.D. lever on your rifle.
Link Posted: 12/15/2013 10:24:53 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MirindoR:
as we expected it was the BAD lever..
im pretty annoyed because its an awesome little feature.. only used it once and already loved it.
wished there was a way to make it work :(
At least the porblem had an easy solution. thanks for the advice everyone.
View Quote


A more powerful spring (slightly more powerful) would fix your BAD problem. If the extra mass of the BAD lever is causing the bolt stop to jump up during recoil then a slightly stronger spring would hold it in place.

I have a couple AR's with the BAD lever that have always worked perfectly and suspect that spring tension/strength of the bolt hold open varies between manufacturers and even production lots. Try different manufacturers springs (very inexpensive) and see if that fixes it. With the springs uninstalled you should be able to get an idea of which are strongest.
Link Posted: 12/15/2013 10:30:07 AM EST
I had no idea everyone had so many issues with BAD levers. I have them on all three of my rifles (S&W, Colt and Spikes) and i have never had an issue at all (i shoot them all a LOT). I would be willing to be its a mag issue. Get some quality mags OP and see if that helps. In any auto-loading gun (rifle or pistol) usually malfunctions start with the magazine. Best of luck! :)
Link Posted: 12/15/2013 2:06:02 PM EST
Phase5 EBR v2 is what you need. I had problem also with BAD on my rifle and replaced it with Phase5 problem solved, and it looks better too!
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