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Posted: 8/15/2004 8:26:14 PM EST
Went shooting today. Brought my M4 type and a A2 type. Both have been extremely reliable with old wolf and Sapsan ammo. I had bought somee 62gr wolf polymer and decided to try it. The A2 would FTE almost every round with a empty case stuck in the chamber which had to be knocked out with a cleaning rod. The M4 type did the same thing but less frequently. The 62 stuff was the only ammo that i brought so I could not test it immediately to see if both guns worked with other ammo.But as I stated none of the guns have ever exhibited any problems with other ammo.

So my conclusion is that 62 stuuf is flawed in my guns.

Any stories of problems with the new Wolf polymer ammo

Thanks
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 8:33:29 PM EST
Would you try and run COLEMAN CAMP FUEL in a CORVETTE?

Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:04:24 AM EST
Went through 400rds of the stuff (55gr) yesterday. Not even one hiccup. -Justin
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:43:40 AM EST
not 1 problem with the 55gr. stuff.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 6:21:21 AM EST
we need more info on your rifles. brand, barrel manufacturer and chamber. a chrome lined 5.56 will eat wolf all day long without a hiccup. some of the kit guns with .223 chambers or some DPMS and Oly barrels with .223 chambers cant handle it.

if your gun chokes on wolf its the rifle not the ammo.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 9:41:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/16/2004 9:41:39 AM EST by chaos4570]

Originally Posted By DvlDog:



if your gun chokes on wolf its the rifle not the ammo.





Really? Tell that to my Bushmaster, Chrome lined, 5.56 and all. MAXIMUM JAMMAGE

......I guess if your car wont run at top speed on cheap fuel, it's your car's fault?
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 9:44:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/16/2004 9:45:13 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
we need more info on your rifles. brand, barrel manufacturer and chamber. a chrome lined 5.56 will eat wolf all day long without a hiccup. some of the kit guns with .223 chambers or some DPMS and Oly barrels with .223 chambers cant handle it.

if your gun chokes on wolf its the rifle not the ammo.



Oh, and from my experience, Oly works just fine...

They haven't used .223 chambers in kit guns since the pre-ban days...

I have a 5.56mm CHROME-PLATING-FREE gun (Oly PCR-4) with 5.56 chamber that has gone thru several thousand rounds of Wolf & Barnaul without one jam...

I'll file this alongside the 'gunsmithing-required-to-run' expensive 1911s & similar-> specific gun problem, not an ammo problem....
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 11:06:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
some of the kit guns with .223 chambers or some DPMS and Oly barrels with .223 chambers cant handle it.



Really? My JT kit, along with every other kit rifle I've ever seen runs just fine with Wolf. Imagine that..

I used to tell people they needed to clean their chambers, but the curious thing is.. My barrel has NEVER seen a bore or chamber brush in its life, and that's around 5-6k rounds. All but 200 of that being Wolf or other Russian ammo.

I think some folks have out-of-spec chambers, weak extractors, or weak actions.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 1:23:11 PM EST
YAWN.......

Three ARs - all broken in (about 1.5K each) - 2 chrome 1 not -
Just normal cleaning after shooting - NO JAMS WITH OLD OR NEW WOLF


Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:27:49 PM EST
Oly upper. runs fine with Sapsan/Barnaul/old Wolf. This is the first time I have tried the 62 gr stuff. My JT upper M4 has never had a hiccup on anything except for this stuff. I'm going to clean the chambers and hope this helps.So what would cause the expended cartridge to stick in the chamber. I can clearly see where it basiclly ripped off the rim.


Thanks
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:48:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/16/2004 2:49:35 PM EST by AFSOC]
Interesting, yesterday I went to the range, brought 1000 Rounds of xm855 and a Bunch of early wolf (Green Lacquer and red sealer) I brought 3 rifles, a Bushy with a colt M-16 Upper No FA chrome lined etc. a Bushy/Model 1 Sales 16" Carbine, and an M4 Clone, DPMS 14.5 1/7" permanently attached muzzle brake, ASA Lower. The M4 has long had a problem with Wolf, PMC and a couple other brands. but I have been feeding it a steady diet of Federal XM-193 and Winchester Q3131 and Federal XM855, it loves them. The other two rifles have consistently been very easy to feed they will eat anything including Wolf.
Yesterday out of Curiosity I decided to try a mag of Wolf through the M4 well LSS it functioned flawlessly on the Wolf now this stuff is about 6 years old I think and this rifle almost as old and it has never worked with Wolf. After it digested a bunch of wolf out of a given magazine it had a FTF, A Double feed, but both cleared with ease, after the rifle got warmed up I switched to XM855 and immediately had a FTE Malf, the case came out with a gentle poke from an OTIS flexible rod. Went back to the Wolf and in an effort to use it all up I proceeded to blast away with all three rifles, with no failures, then it happened, the horror of horrors a FTE Wolf case! and this time it took a solid steel rod to knock the thing out of the rifle, Which I did not have with me. So M4 is out of the game but the other two just kept plugging away with the Wolf. Now I have never before experienced a stuck case with the XM's before ever. But the Wolf usually has at least one or two stuck cases per trip. I may pick up some of this poly Wolf at the next show and see how it does. Also in the past most of the Malfs I experienced with the M4 were related to short stroking, and feed problems and the occasional extract issue.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 3:11:02 PM EST
FWIW,

I've got a mutt M4gery made with Ameetec recivers and an 16" Olympic stainless barrel (M4 profile, finished black).

Bought a case of Wolf 62 gr. polymer about a month ago and have since fired at least 500 rounds - without a single problem.

I find the Wolf ammo to be a bit dirty, stinky, and not as accurate as WWB, but given the price, more than acceptable for plinking.

Link Posted: 8/16/2004 4:02:12 PM EST
I tried some Wolf 62 gr Poly about a month ago, about 100 rds worth. No issues. Fair accuracy at 100 yds.

However I later bought 500 rds of 55 gr Poly, and my DPMS really does not like it at all.
Stuff is really dirty and foul smelling, like I mean, the gunpowder must have been made from a couple of pairs of Joe Stalin's old socks. Bullets must be undersize or something, because I can get more accuracy throwing the rifle for the hundred yards. To add injury to insult, the last round of the first 100 I fired got stuck in the chamber, had to use a cleaning rod to pop it out.

Maybe that lot was made on a Friday.



Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:39:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 5:46:40 AM EST by DvlDog]
some of you guys have reading comprehension issues i swear.

i too have a JT kit gun with a 5.56 chamber that eats wolf. as a matter of fact i have shot enough wolf through it to pay for the kit with the savings over wally world bulk pack or UMC. i had an oly that loved wolf, but i specially ordered a 5.56 chamber. my SUM bull barrel chokes on it.

for those of you have trouble understanding english:

I SAID:
"SOME KIT GUNS WITH .223 CHAMBERS OR SOME DPMS AND OLY BARRELS WITH 223 CHAMBERS"

I DID NOT SAY:
"all kit guns"
"all olys"
"all DPMS"

i dont need 100 guys chiming in to tell me their JTs run wolf, or their oly loves it. dont get smug with me, its not my fault you dont read well and have trouble comprehending the written word. i was pointing to the .223 chambers in "SOME" kit guns, not the fact its a kit or certain brand. brand is immateriel. im a wolf guy, shoot at least a case a month of 5.56. and with the exception of my SUM barreled scoped upper i make sure i only buy rifles with 5.56 chambers and i feed them a regular diet of wolf.



BTW, llama, that reading comprehsion crack was aimed at you.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:41:59 AM EST
It's amazing that there is so much issue with the fact that cheap ammo is likely to cause problems with some rifles, moreso than "non-cheap" ammo.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:50:31 AM EST
yeah wolf is cheap..so what. i get maybe 2 or 3 FTF per case. its good practice and its reasonable for saving nearly $100 per case over XM193. i have never had a FTE with wolf in an AR.

anytime now some brainiac is going to post that the "polymer coating melts off in the hot chamber and forms a glue" BWAHAHAHA
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:56:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
yeah wolf is cheap..so what. i get maybe 2 or 3 FTF per case. its good practice and its reasonable for saving nearly $100 per case over XM193. i have never had a FTE with wolf in an AR.

anytime now some brainiac is going to post that the "polymer coating melts off in the hot chamber and forms a glue" BWAHAHAHA



That's exactly what I am saying. Don't expect perfection from Wolf ammo - if you get it, good for you. You're one up on alot of others that don't.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:59:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 6:00:30 AM EST by G-CODE]

Originally Posted By DvlDog:

anytime now some brainiac is going to post that the "polymer coating melts off in the hot chamber and forms a glue" BWAHAHAHA




You mean like this....




I still use the stuff, only 1 ("glued" ) case in 3500 rds. The black stuff on the outside of the case is either melted/uncured polycoat or melted chrome from my chamber, I haven't figured out which one it is yet.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 12:37:04 PM EST
I ran about 650 rds through my Bushmaster. Then it began to rain. The gun sludged up and FTF every 3 or 4 rounds. I had another post going on this and some good comments I got were that to much lubricant or water can cause sludge buildup with Wolf ammo.

I will use Wolf for plinking but would not use it for anything that counts, i.e. SELF DEFENSE, competion, or training classes.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 3:31:53 PM EST
Hey! It's cheap shit ammo for a reason. Don't shoot it if it screws with your weapon. Buy something else . Oh, I do not shoot wolf BTW.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 3:46:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 3:47:49 PM EST by Not_A_Llama]

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
BTW, llama, that reading comprehsion crack was aimed at you.


Ooooh noooooo! Man, what a painful and hurtful crack. Let's do some more comprehension.

Me: "My JT kit, along with every other kit rifle I've ever seen runs just fine with Wolf. Imagine that.."

That's every, not some. Reading comprehension, yes? Also, for chrissake, learn to capitalize correctly.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:09:45 PM EST
Thanks for the comments. This is not about wolf ammo in general. I have used wolf 55gr andall the russian ammo with no problems. only with this new 62 polymer stuff.

Anyone know why it would cause a failure to eject? I have read that this failure is do to low port pressure. if this is true does this mean that perhaps my batch is underpowered??
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 4:01:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2004 4:02:38 AM EST by CB1]

Originally Posted By G-CODE:

Originally Posted By DvlDog:

anytime now some brainiac is going to post that the "polymer coating melts off in the hot chamber and forms a glue" BWAHAHAHA




You mean like this....

www.hunt101.com/img/179471.jpg


I still use the stuff, only 1 ("glued" ) case in 3500 rds. The black stuff on the outside of the case is either melted/uncured polycoat or melted chrome from my chamber, I haven't figured out which one it is yet.



Same thing happened to me. I think it is the red sealant around the primer though. I don't think it is the polycoat.

I found the red stuff all over my lower and on the inside of the mags. I can only think that the sealant fell on the next round and remained there while chambering. No?

ETA: after 8k I had this happen once. and that was with new wolf.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 5:05:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By CB1:


Same thing happened to me. I think it is the red sealant around the primer though. I don't think it is the polycoat.

I found the red stuff all over my lower and on the inside of the mags. I can only think that the sealant fell on the next round and remained there while chambering. No?

ETA: after 8k I had this happen once. and that was with new wolf.



I'm pretty confident that it's not the red sealant. You'd have to accumulate alot of that red stuff in the chamber to get that much coverage on the casing. Personally I think it's improperly cured polycoat that is the culprit.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 7:10:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By chaos4570:
Would you try and run COLEMAN CAMP FUEL in a CORVETTE?




You comparing apples to oranges. The most that can be damaged by using Wolf is a extracter. Other than that none anyways its underpowered so it wont blow your gun in two.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 7:47:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
Anyone know why it would cause a failure to eject? I have read that this failure is do to low port pressure. if this is true does this mean that perhaps my batch is underpowered??



It could either not be driving the carrier hard enough to extract in the first place, or your extractor could be slipping. If the latter, try putting an o-ring around the extractor spring.
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 1:13:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By G-CODE:

Originally Posted By CB1:


Same thing happened to me. I think it is the red sealant around the primer though. I don't think it is the polycoat.

I found the red stuff all over my lower and on the inside of the mags. I can only think that the sealant fell on the next round and remained there while chambering. No?

ETA: after 8k I had this happen once. and that was with new wolf.



I'm pretty confident that it's not the red sealant. You'd have to accumulate alot of that red stuff in the chamber to get that much coverage on the casing. Personally I think it's improperly cured polycoat that is the culprit.



Time for a range test... I have 700 rds to waste this weekend. I'll bring the camera and take pics of shells and the inside of the receiver/mags.
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 4:07:35 PM EST
It could either not be driving the carrier hard enough to extract in the first place, or your extractor could be slipping. If the latter, try putting an o-ring around the extractor spring.

Don't think its the extractor.

Here a pic of the case after popping it out with a rod.



Link Posted: 8/26/2004 7:44:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 7:45:02 PM EST by jimb100]
I took a couple of hundred rounds of new Wolf to the range today. I brought 2 AR's, a DPMS M4 upper with a Colt lower and a Colt HBAR upper on a Stinger arms lower.

I also brought 100 rounds of XM193.

I had no failures to feed, fire or extract with any round.

The Wolf isn't loaded as hot as the XM193, it doesn't smell as nice as the XM193 (to me anyway) but the accuracy was comparable from both guns at 100 yds and 50 yds.

The Wolf was also $25 less expensive on 500 rounds.

I cleaned both guns tonight and didn't notice any extra cleaning required because of the Wolf.

I'd buy it again.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:22:05 PM EST
I use X power xtractor springs and chrome plated extractors and ejectors from les baer,I use a 14.5/phantom HBAR its a pre bushy carbine that was rebarreled to the 14.5 7000 rounds ago the last 3000 the new wolf and no problemsor baked emptys at all.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 11:54:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By chaos4570:
Would you try and run COLEMAN CAMP FUEL in a CORVETTE?




Would you run 87 in your vette as long as it didnt ping? I hate that "would you put X fuel in X car?!"

Umm yeah, if it didn't detonate.

If your rifle runs wolf, buy it up. My Colt M4A3 (6400C) liked to tear the rims off the old lacquer cases, as they got stuck in the chamber after a few hundred rounds.

My USP (a ferrari, corvettes are 1911s, and break alot!) eats the Wolf .45 allllll day long, and puts it into tiny little groups.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 12:00:03 AM EST
I dont own a 223 AR, I have a DR200 and it runs through old and new Wolf without a problem.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 1:14:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 1:54:43 AM EST
I will continue to shoot Polymer Wolf, and scoff at the old Wolf. I used to keep a wide selection of ammo in the house, UMC, Winchester, Wolf, whatever I got cheap, and some good stuff. Now I keep about 3k of new Wolf and about 2k of XM193 around. These are the only ammo's I've not had trouble with. Just my $.02.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:42:19 AM EST
Ive owned Four corvettes. I run the cheapest thing that will push the pistons down without pinging.
And Coleman Camp fuel will probably run better than most of the Premium Gas you can buy today... In Fact, I wouldn't burn auto gas in my Coleman lantern.

But I do get better groups with Wolf 62 gn than Olympic or Federal in my DPMS/Rock River Varmit rifle even though the primers smell like piss....... 1/4 mile times are lousey though....could be the slow hole shot, but I would not put a tranny brake on my AR either...
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