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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/17/2003 12:18:57 PM EDT
I was at my local shooting range the other day and a guy there had a Bushmaster upper "model: BURA2B 11.5/5.5 mounted on his Colt pre-ban lower. It was a flat top upper with a EO Tech and it was bad to the bone....very nice balance and super accruate. It reminded me of the old Colt "XM177-E2" as used in the Nam. My question is what are the pro's and con's of this short 11.5 inch barrel and the 5.5 inch flash suppressor ?
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 12:24:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 5:08:34 PM EDT by IronBalaclava]
Well the short bbl length is about it. And it looks cool. The negatives outweigh the handy length and looking cool, however. With that length, you are not giving the 5.56 ball cartridge enough velocity to fragment reliably. Therefore you will get the terminal ballistics similar to that of a .22 LR. The FS hides the outrageous(also cool) fireball that is released from the bbl. The huge muzzle flash is propellant not having adequate time to burn due to the length of the barrel, effectively reducing the much needed 2700+ velocities needed to make the 5.56 adequately frag.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 12:31:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 1:53:40 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
11 inches of velocity out of 16 inches barrel. Nuff said.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 2:19:27 PM EDT
I actually had an Olympic 11.5/5.5 for my first AR. Pros: Looks like XM177E2 Stiffer barrel Cons: Louder Unpleasant muzzle blast to other shooters (actually had shooters in another lane complain to me about it) Flash hider is mostly ineffective - still a pretty nice fireball with a lot of ammo Permanent muzzle device attached limits future upgrade options 11.5" velocity/terminal effectiveness in 16" package Heats up very fast Fun for a collector or plinker, not so great for most other non-NFA options.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 2:50:36 PM EDT
I just got my Bbl from Bushmaster a few weeks ago and I choose the 11.5/5.5 because I like the looks. My duty rifle is the standard M-4 profile in 16" so I was not concerned about loss of ballistic effeciency because unless I am attacked at the range, I won't be using it as a defensive weapon. Can't wait for the ban to expire so I can use my new Bbl in a building project, if not, then I guess I'll build just the upper for use on one of me pre lowers.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 3:01:14 PM EDT
Pro-Looks cool as hell. Con-useless as teats on a boar hog. Suffice to say, it's the first thing I'm going to do as soon as the ban expires.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 3:05:03 PM EDT
Unless you are leaving to fight in Iraq in the next few days, muzzle velocity and bullet fragmentation are not that much of a concern. Go with what you like, 11.5 is nice set-up and easy to wield.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 4:29:49 PM EDT
IIRC, doesn't DPMS makes an upper with a 16" bbl that has a fake 5" suppressor on it? If you want the look but don't want to lose precious velocity, it would be worth looking into. I agree they look cool but, like others have said, you lose some serious velocity. Check out this link for more info (thanks for the good site Forest): [url=groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/rifleperformance.msnw]Rifle Performance[/url] Please note the fragmentation distances for a 11.5" bbl vs. a 16".
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 4:51:18 PM EDT
Garand308, I was sceptical too, but I bought one (11.5" w/5.5" FH) to put on my preban as the XM177E2 clone upper it had on it was worn out. When I went to the range, however, I was delighted. It was as accurate as my 16" at 50 yards, and well within 3MOA at 100 yards. It is a joy to fire, and so handy. I highly recommend it. I bought the DPMS upper, and have been extremely satisfied.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 5:05:36 PM EDT
I like mine cause its handy,good look and its my close range carbine the bullet should fragment out to 50 yds thats how long the velocity of 2700 fps should be at that range,so close in velocity wont matter but thats why I have a second pre ban carbine for a longer barrel !$.5 with phantom and thats good out to 100 yds for bullet performance and thats all I realy need If I have to take a longer shot Im using my M14.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 5:23:17 PM EDT
As stated you get the WORST of both worlds. Low Velocity with a full length barrel.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:13:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Matt_B: IIRC, doesn't DPMS makes an upper with a 16" bbl that has a fake 5" suppressor on it? If you want the look but don't want to lose precious velocity, it would be worth looking into. I agree they look cool but, like others have said, you lose some serious velocity. Check out this link for more info (thanks for the good site Forest): [url=groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/rifleperformance.msnw]Rifle Performance[/url] Please note the fragmentation distances for a 11.5" bbl vs. a 16".
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Bushmaster sells a slipover. [url=http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/brakes/mmt-0019.asp]Look Flash Suppressor[/url] The description says you get the look without sacrificing accuracy. I think it ought to say velocity instead.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:26:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: As stated you get the WORST of both worlds. Low Velocity with a full length barrel.
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Did anybody say anything? All I heard was some buzzing noise,like an insect or something...
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:30:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 7:31:07 PM EDT by _DR]
The whole point of the 5.5 inch flash hider, was that without it, the muzzle flash would light up the shooter at night like a carnival. With the 5.5", the 11.5 inch barrel shows less muzzle flash than a 16" barrel with an A1 or A2 flash hider, thus earning it's length. This is a CQB weapon, meant for use at 50 yards or less, where most actual combat occurs.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:51:29 PM EDT
Pro: (crickets chirping) And Con: 11" velocity, 16" barrel. Loud enough to clear your sinuses.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 8:11:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 8:47:35 PM EDT by Luckystiff]
The original XM177, XM177E1,2,3 had 10 and 11.5 inch barrels. The original 4.5 inch MODERATOR was attached to the short barrels to keep the noise down to that of a 20" M16. Thus creating the classic look of the short barrel with the long round flash hider. The 5.5 flash hider was made so that one could have a short 11.5 inch barrel, like the XM177, but not violate the NFA. Their was nothing tactical about the development of the 5.5 it was all about being within the law and delivering a product that was/is in demand. Original XM177 Moderator. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/060097.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 8:21:49 PM EDT
luckystiff is trying to say that the original XM117 had a flash suppressor/sound suppressor the copies all have a flash suppressor that looks like the original FS/sound suppressor so it's not registered as a Suppressor(NFA), costing $200
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 8:45:09 PM EDT
I wish to thank all of the AR-15 "Black Rifle" lovers out there that replied to my question about the 11.5/5.5 Bushmaster barrel lenght question. I learned enough to know that this will be my next upper for my Colt pre-ban lower. I realise that it hurts muzzel velocity, however I am not buying it for a 600 yard target rifle or even a 50 yard one. It's sole purpose is a "WHEN THE SHIT HITS THE FAN WEAPON". I did notice the the ball jarring muzzel blast and not to mention the fire ball in the middle of a sunny day as compaired to my 16" barrel, but hell it sure made my 16" barrelled Colt look kind of wimpy and man did it ever completly discenagrate the pumpkin this guy was shooting at 100 yards away.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 9:00:19 PM EDT
I wish to thank all of the AR-15 "Black Rifle" lovers out there that replied to my question about the 11.5/5.5 Bushmaster barrel lenght question. I learned enough to know that this will be my next upper for my Colt pre-ban lower. I realise that it hurts muzzel velocity, however I am not buying it for a 600 yard target rifle or even a 50 yard one. It's sole purpose is a "WHEN THE SHIT HITS THE FAN WEAPON". I did notice the the ball jarring muzzel blast and not to mention the fire ball in the middle of a sunny day as compaired to my 16" barrel, but hell it sure made my 16" barrelled Colt look kind of wimpy and man did it ever completly discenagrate the pumpkin this guy was shooting at 100 yards away.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 9:08:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garand308: I realise that it hurts muzzel velocity, however I am not buying it for a 600 yard target rifle or even a 50 yard one. It's sole purpose is a "WHEN THE SHIT HITS THE FAN WEAPON".
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Keep your shots under 50 yards then, because you have nothing other than a .22 Magnum beyond that.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 9:34:55 PM EDT
If I have to corner around entryways like it's a 16in. barrel, then it will be with a 16in. barrel. I have to admit, the look is one of the best out there, but sometimes the sacrifice is just too much. You might consider a 14.5in. M4 type barrel. The M203 cut out brakes it up real nice to make for a cool look also.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:45:41 PM EDT
Or, you could be a raving mad psychopath type, the kind who believes in a true SHTF situation, the illegal nature of your 11.5" barrel won't be the biggest concern to you or your local LEO, if he's even around. In such a scenario, use whatever you like and screw the law. This is educational debate, not advice. ;)
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 11:45:43 PM EDT
A couple of you said that the 11.5" barrel with the 5.5" flash hider is very handy. How is it more handy then a 16" barrel? Once all is said and done they are the same length and about the same weight. So the only reason to purchase one is because you like the looks. Their is nothing wrong with that but it's not handier or a better weapon at 50 yards.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 3:53:03 AM EDT
G.308. The first AR I bought several years ago was a Bushmaster with an A1 upper and 11.5/5.5 barrel. I got it for a song and was thilled until I went shooting with buddies who had full 16" barrels. At 100 yards they were drilling holes in steel plate and my rounds made little .22 dents. I had velosity envy. I felt I needed to punch holes like everyone else. So I went and bought a Bushy M4 upper. Now I looked just like all my buddies and made nice round holes in steel plate, but I always prefered the look of the old upper. I now realize I am a fat 40 year old couch potato who isn't likely going to fight any battles. So screw it, I bought another lower, converted the M4 to post ban and made my Bushy original again. It looks cool as hell, runs flawlessly, and gives me great joy. Bottom line is the 11.5/5.5 set up is fun and is fine for what it is. Plus it stands out among all the M4's at the range. Don't worry about what all the experts tell you should have, get what you want.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:26:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 6:28:51 AM EDT by RenegadeX]
Originally Posted By whywork40: A couple of you said that the 11.5" barrel with the 5.5" flash hider is very handy. How is it more handy then a 16" barrel? Once all is said and done they are the same length and about the same weight. So the only reason to purchase one is because you like the looks. Their is nothing wrong with that but it's not handier or a better weapon at 50 yards.
View Quote
Assuming you are not getting an NFA weapon and the 5.5 FH is permanently attached, I agree - the 16 inch with 5.5 slipover is the way to go. Only go 11.5 if you can remove the 5.5 FH. IMO.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:35:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garand308: It's sole purpose is a "WHEN THE SHIT HITS THE FAN WEAPON".
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It's a VERY POOR SHTF weapon. You already have the same length as a 16" or even a 14.5" with a FS. So why not move on up to one of the longer barrels and have yourself a MUCH more functional SHTF weapon that is immensely better at longer disance engagements? As it stands now, you'll have a long rifle that is only useful for short distance work. What a waste. If it's for fun, then it's for fun. But as a SHTF weapon, it sucks.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:45:11 AM EDT
Pro: Looks Kewl - very retro, XM177ish Cons: Lower MV, Higher cost (than a standard 16"), do you really need that muzzle brake?
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:47:17 AM EDT
What about a 16" with a fake FH mounted just over flush, giving you a 16 1/4" bbl, and great for SHTF. I think KKL of KKF can do it. Just my $0.02 [coffee]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 11:04:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GoldtopDude: What about a 16" with a fake FH mounted just over flush, giving you a 16 1/4" bbl, and great for SHTF. I think KKL of KKF can do it. Just my $0.02 [coffee]
View Quote
Good idea. The faux supressor will add weight - but the rifle will look kewl and be functional.
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