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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/14/2005 6:35:13 PM EDT
what are the pro's and con's of these two barrel lengths?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:03:38 PM EDT
Fragmentation range, the 20" gives 50+ yards more with 75 gr OTM than the 16".

My next AR will be a 20" goverment profile 1/7 thanks to Grant at G & R Tactical.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:05:40 PM EDT
You lose ~150fps with the 16" IIRC

16" will most probably have a carbine length gas system (unless it has been cut and the port modified.

20" is heavier

20" will have rifle length sight radius and a 16" might if it is a Dissipator style.

There are probably more and someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly.

Seydou
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:17:30 PM EDT
I just wanted to add these comments:

It's easier to carry the 16" for a long period of time.

The shorter barrel is easier to use or to get in and out of vehicles.

The 16" CAR requires a special long handled bayonet but the mid-length gas system uses the standard bayonet.

I can't decide which one I like better so I got both, the ARFCOM way.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:26:16 PM EDT
I've got all 3 (rifle, Mid-length, and CAR gas systems)

The rifle is the smoothest shooting.

The Mid-length is the smoothest shooting with a 16" barrel and you can still mount a bayonet on it (which is what really matters)

The carbine gas system is shorter and runs at higher pressures than the mid-length but has a little sharper recoil and supposedly reduced parts life in comparison to the middy and rifle systems.

Personally, since I can't go SBR, I'm going to stick with Mid-length gas systems for 16" and rifle gas systems for 20" (unless I have a 20" cut down to 16", I'll still use the rifle system) from here on out.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:36:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:39:32 PM EDT
I haven't got my first AR yet, but I'm getting the 16" M4 style with collapsible stock, specifically because my girlfriend and I can then share it. Otherwise I'd probably get a 20" HBAR with the standard A2 stock and A3 upper, which would be too heavy and have too long a length of pull for her.

That's an advantage in the 16" over the 20". But I realize you were probably thinking about ballistics or SWAT/CQC tactics.

GL
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:11:37 PM EDT
The biggest thing is the fragmentation range for me.

I got a M4gery because i thought it looked cool, but if I could redo it i'd get a 20" or midlength... My weapon is a plinker and a "just in case SHTF" weapon.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:46:42 PM EDT
To add something different,

The 20" doesn't seem quite as loud using the same load.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 10:01:00 PM EDT
I like short barrels. To me, 16 is max, 14.5 is the compromise, and 10.5 or 11.5 is the ideal. I'm not so much interested in fragmentation range, because realistically if I ever use my rifle it will be inside of 50m. Probably inside of 10m. Rather, I want something short enough to bring into action easily, and that wont hang up on a steering wheel, door frame or corner.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 10:05:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I like short barrels. To me, 16 is max, 14.5 is the compromise, and 10.5 or 11.5 is the ideal. I'm not so much interested in fragmentation range, because realistically if I ever use my rifle it will be inside of 50m. Probably inside of 10m. Rather, I want something short enough to bring into action easily, and that wont hang up on a steering wheel, door frame or corner.



Wouldn't a pistol or pistol caliber carbine be more suited for your purposes then? I just finished ammo-oracle.com and i'm trying to convert you brother!

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 10:14:11 PM EDT
Nope. I like 5.56 because it will swiss cheese kevlar, and shots pretty flat to 300+ meters. I don't believe that fragmentation is the only way that the AR is effective. If an SPR can make a kill at 500m, there is no reason to believe that anymore. The ammo-oracle is a good resource, but their belief in the necessity of fragmentation is a little over the top, IMHO.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 10:22:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 10:23:09 PM EDT by KnobCreek]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I like short barrels. To me, 16 is max, 14.5 is the compromise, and 10.5 or 11.5 is the ideal. I'm not so much interested in fragmentation range, because realistically if I ever use my rifle it will be inside of 50m. Probably inside of 10m. Rather, I want something short enough to bring into action easily, and that wont hang up on a steering wheel, door frame or corner.



....and the 10.5/11.5 upper simply looks friggin' great. Small 'n Nasty defintely has some allure
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 10:51:12 PM EDT







First pic is a rifle my brother used at a class. It was borrowed. Second is him using it, third is me shooting a DOE owned M4A1. You cant see it here but theres 28 rounds goig downrange with each manipulation of the trigger. I was working on stance

Oh yeah, I shaved my head after that. Goddamn I looked like a hippy.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 1:58:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I like short barrels. To me, 16 is max, 14.5 is the compromise, and 10.5 or 11.5 is the ideal. I'm not so much interested in fragmentation range, because realistically if I ever use my rifle it will be inside of 50m. Probably inside of 10m. Rather, I want something short enough to bring into action easily, and that wont hang up on a steering wheel, door frame or corner.



Wouldn't a pistol or pistol caliber carbine be more suited for your purposes then? I just finished ammo-oracle.com and i'm trying to convert you brother!


How closely did you read? An AR is ideal at CQ. A pistol caliber carbine is worthless without a FA switch compared to a short AR.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 2:00:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
The pros to the 20" are it's 4" longer.

The pros to the 16" are its 4" shorter.

And thats all I have to say about that.




Jesus!

If all things in life could be this easy!
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:03:18 PM EDT
It all comes down to what you intend to use the AR for.
CQB/home defense, get a carbine. Read the Ideal Rifle article
on the home page of this site. The Colt 6520 would be perfect,
as would the Bushy Lightweight.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:08:18 PM EDT
intended use?

Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:14:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 5:15:47 PM EDT by DevL]
Why settle for a pistol caliber when you can have 100+ yard fragmenting range from a 11.5" barreled AR carbine?

Why settle for a 20" get to get smooth recoil when you can convert a carbine gas system to a piston driven one?

Why worry about sight radius if you can use optics?

The 20" has an extended fragmenting range than noone but varmint hunters will ever use in these United States. I also believe only a varmint hunter or competative shooter will care about he extra velocity to reduce drop at ranges over 200 yards.

PS: I wonder how long it will take before someone tries to tell me I am an idiot claiming 100 yard fragmenting range with a 11.5" barrel.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:51:48 PM EDT
A 20" barreled rifle has increased striking range because of the longer barrel, but it also has an overall longer length, which gets in the way sometimes.

You can get a 16" in either a midlength or carbine gas system; The longer of the two, the midlength has a longer sight radius and the gas port is closer to the muzzle (the right length for a bayonet mount!) which reduces the abruptness of the gas applied to the bolt carrier and thus the abruptness of the action. So far the worst criticisim I've heard of the M4 family is that they're harsh both to the shooter and the action; midlength systems aren't at all harsh.
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