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Posted: 9/26/2005 9:55:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 9:04:11 PM EDT by chargedmr2]
My original post has been edited out in attempt to kill a relatively worthless thread. If your really currious, I'm sure my post was quoted somewhere along the lines.

cheers
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 10:49:08 AM EDT
I just got myself a LMT upper too, and the cuts for the ramps don't line up perfectly as well. However, the function is fine, and that slight mechanical variance probably will not cause and problems. Looking at the copper marks, from where the bullets in the rounds scrape, the bullets go round down the center, and haven't touched the receiver ramps in my rifle. Roughly ~300 rounds down the hatch as of this morning.

Meh. I get much satisfaction from the fact LMT is fully mil-spec though, it's the best for the chairborne ranger regiment
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 10:54:25 AM EDT
Looks like you got a reject. My LMT upper looks flawless, I would buy another another LMT upper in a heart beat.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:08:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 11:10:25 AM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:12:47 AM EDT
where'd you get that sucker? looks like a bad refinish job...

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:14:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 11:18:59 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]
Just shoot the living shit out of it. Cosmetics mean nothing to a normal AR manufacturer and we have had posts like this on every single one of them. If you want to have a guaranteed cosmetically “Perfect” upper spend the extra cash and buy a Les Baer or Wilson Combat. At least then you would have a leg to stand on bitching about cosmetics.

AR's are not a good hobby for anal collectors who think every one is suppose to have the fit and finish of hand made custom bolt gun.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:17:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Just shoot the living shit out of it. Cosmetics mean nothing to a normal AR manufacturer and we have had posts like this on every single one of them. If you want to have a guaranteed cosmetically “Perfect” upper spend the extra cash and buy a Les Baer or Wilson Combat. At least then you would have a leg to stand on bitching about cosmetics.



Buy a brand that satisfies you and meets your expectations. If cosmetics are one feature you look for then you do not have to buy Les Bare or Wilson. RRA and the others make rifles that work well and look good without. Your LMT upper does look a little rought on the outside. Teh feedramps are normal variation and will not cause a function issue. Colt makes rifles that work good and often don't look as good. Choose based on yoru priorities and don't be shamed if cosmetics are among them.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:19:24 AM EDT
First things first: did you purchase this upper from a reputable LMT dealer?

There are certain elements out there that will piece something together and claim its brand A when it’s really a home made POS. I’m not saying that’s the case but it might be a possibility.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:19:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WILDBILL756:
Looks like you got a reject. My LMT upper looks flawless, I would buy another another LMT upper in a heart beat.



+1

I picked up a 10.5" upper from MSTN and the fit / finish / function are PERFECT.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:19:30 AM EDT
Looks pretty decent to me. Everything works, right? Thats what counts. I have a Custom Colt pre series 70 if I want to look at something pretty. ARs are like Glocks--who cares what they look like?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:19:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
If you want to have a guaranteed cosmetically “Perfect” upper spend the extra cash and buy a Les Baer or Wilson Combat. At least then you would have a leg to stand on bitching about cosmetics.




The unfortunate part is that you will only have ONE leg, since you gave them the other for the rifle in the first place...
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:21:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:
Looks like an LMT to me. I bet it goes bang every time. Just shoot it, its a tool. The object on the receiving end of the projectiles it was designed to fire wont care it isnt as pretty as your RRA or Bushmaster.



I have to disagree with this, BB.

Granted it is a tool and not a beauty contest, but he could have gotten shoddy workmanship for a lot less than the premium LMT commands.

As for the alignment of the feedramps..........It is surprising that doesn't cause FTF (contrary to gGordon_freeman's experience)

I have the LMT M4 16" upper, and mine looks nothing like that hack job example.

All makers turn out a lump of coal now and then, but what separates the top tier players is how they handle the service end- I would send it back and find out where they stand.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:21:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:
Looks like an LMT to me. I bet it goes bang every time. Just shoot it, its a tool. The object on the receiving end of the projectiles it was designed to fire wont care it isnt as pretty as your RRA or Bushmaster.



Amen. When I bought an LMT it came without T markings or LMT logo and I didnt complain. I never looked at the feed ramp. Instead, I went and shot it!
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:24:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gvidon212:
Buy a brand that satisfies you and meets your expectations. If cosmetics are one feature you look for then you do not have to buy Les Bare or Wilson. RRA and the others make rifles that work well and look good without. Your LMT upper does look a little rought on the outside. Teh feedramps are normal variation and will not cause a function issue. Colt makes rifles that work good and often don't look as good. Choose based on yoru priorities and don't be shamed if cosmetics are among them.



Thats odd, becuase we have had numerous "My _________ (Fill in Blank) AR is ugly" threads over the years from every manufacturer, and I do mean every manufacturer.

Like I said, spend the extra cash or stop bitching.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:24:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brians_45:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
If you want to have a guaranteed cosmetically “Perfect” upper spend the extra cash and buy a Les Baer or Wilson Combat. At least then you would have a leg to stand on bitching about cosmetics.




The unfortunate part is that you will only have ONE leg, since you gave them the other for the rifle in the first place...





Good one.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:26:57 AM EDT
I too was dissapointed in my LMT.

When you pay for a top tier manufacturer, you expect quality. That means finish, as well as function.

My biggest gripe about my LMT, is that it was a VERY sloppy fit in my lower. I had to have an accu-wedge in my lower, in order to keep it from rattling worse than my AK.

I've tried a handful of other brand uppers on the same lower, and EVERY other upper fit flawlessly and tightly. The issue was definitely with the LMT product, not my lower.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:27:40 AM EDT
Hi I dont need it to be perfect but i think thats a little rough for the money .
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:29:23 AM EDT
hmmm.....I bought mine from Jason @ JTAC and it was perfect. In fact, it was only after I put it on my lower and had shot it 400+ times did I look hard enough at the fit and finish.

Goes BANG every time I want it to, runs flawlessley...........

Oh, my feedramps do not line up perfectley either but that has not been an issue at all. Nor do I see it becoming one.

If you are really worried about the cosmetics of it and you had purchased it from an authorized LMT dealer then call them and see what they will do.

If it does not function the whole time then you should probably send it back, but other than that, it had to pass all of LMT's QC to go out the door.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:31:49 AM EDT
Thanks for the replies. As already stated, I am aware that appearance is second to function. Also, I am not doubting the general reliability of LMT products--thats why I purchased the upper. I simply want to know if this poor finish quality is normal for LMT.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:32:13 AM EDT
Half assed here....half assed there....pretty soon half assed everywhere. Supplying the broader civilian market often seems to lead down the same path, complaceny in quality and cutting corners. It's cosmetic now, maybe form and function later. I wouldn't let LMT THINK that this is OK..ever, because it's not.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:32:50 AM EDT
While I agree with bigbore, combat_jack & va_dinger I understand that everyone here is not in this for the same reasons. If the guy isn’t happy with the look of his upper then he isn’t happy. Not everyone here looks at their ARs as “tools” so let’s not give him a hard time. The important thing is he owns a Black Rifle (or several) not why he owns it.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:34:30 AM EDT
Another whine thread:
linky

TODAYS NEWS:

AR15 rifles are tools. Battle rifles. Not collector grade, diamond checkered, cocobolo furnished, highly polished blued, precision engraved, wall hanging collector grade $20,000 rifles.

Hell, I haven't looked at any of mine closely enough to tell if they have any defects. I just shoot them. And then shoot them some more. Then repeat. I actually clean them once or twice a year.

Send it back and ask for a hand picked one for you.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:38:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:41:49 AM EDT
I'm note sure how many times I'll have to reitterate this point--I realize that these rifles are TOOLS. My question is very simple--"Is it normal for LMT's finish work to be poor quality?"
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:45:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 11:52:19 AM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:53:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By chargedmr2:
I'm note sure how many times I'll have to reitterate this point--I realize that these rifles are TOOLS. My question is very simple--"Is it normal for LMT's finish work to be poor quality?"




I dont define subjective cosmetics as poor quality. Just shoot it, there will be no quality issues.



I agree with that, but I have gotten discounts from dealers/manufacturers because of consmetic flaws no worse than that.

I bought a complete Armalite/Eagle Arms rifle for about $500 from a major dealer a few years back - because it has a minor cosmetic blemish, no worse than that shown in chargedmr2's picture.

I have no problem USING it, and that rifles is super-reliable - but I sure wouldn't want to pay the SAME price that others are paying for their "perfect" rifles.

chargedmr2 - if I were in your shoes, I'd certainly call LMT and talk to them and see what they say. You might be surprised - some companies offer really stand-up service. Bushmaster once switched out an entire rifle for me (at their cost) because I was unahppy with the fit between upper and lower (which wasn't bad, it just wasn't perfect )
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:54:32 AM EDT
I had a LMT upper that had worse forging marks than that. The m4 feedramps also did not line up properlly and it was giving me major FTF issues. It was very random, sometimes I could go through a 30rd mag fine and other times it would just go through one or two rounds and would jam all the way through. I checked my mags and everything, nothing was wrong besides the mis-aligned feedramps.

Good luck on yours.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:54:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By chargedmr2:
I'm note sure how many times I'll have to reitterate this point--I realize that these rifles are TOOLS. My question is very simple--"Is it normal for LMT's finish work to be poor quality?"




I dont define subjective cosmetics as poor quality. Just shoot it, there will be no quality issues.



Neither do I. I still think LMT is high quality, particularly when it comes to the purpose of the weapon--flawless function. I am speaking very narrowly about the finish of the upper receiver itself.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:04:10 PM EDT

I got an LMT complete upper without the M4 feedramps in the barrel extension, but the lower had them.

It was kind of amusing. I had it back within two weeks, no questions asked. I just emailed them a picture and description and they said send it in.

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:05:14 PM EDT
Compared to let's say RockRiver or Stag arms uppers receivers, what's the 25% premium price on LMTs charged for. I've built up 6 guns on RR and Stag upper receivers with no issues on function or fit (I, too do not concern myself excessively with looks) Is it popularity, the "in thing" or is there some other attribute I'm missing. So the question is what does the premium get you compared to RR or Stag? I only ask because if I were to pay more than RR or Stag I would EXPECT something more.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:05:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 12:06:41 PM EDT by M4arc]

Originally Posted By chargedmr2:
I'm note sure how many times I'll have to reitterate this point--I realize that these rifles are TOOLS. My question is very simple--"Is it normal for LMT's finish work to be poor quality?"



Around here you'll have to repeat yourself several times because once the pile on starts it doesn't stop for much

Sorry dude.

To answer your question; no, it's not normal judging from the LMTs that I own and the ones that I've handled.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:07:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/chargedmr2/DSC00578.jpg

This picture does not show machining by LMT.
It is showing the surface of the forging.

In that photo, the only thing LMT machined is the pic rails




Which have a NICK in the edge
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:03:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rabbit9:

Originally Posted By WILDBILL756:
Looks like you got a reject. My LMT upper looks flawless, I would buy another another LMT upper in a heart beat.



+1

I picked up a 10.5" upper from MSTN and the fit / finish / function are PERFECT.



+2

Mine impressed me so much I bought another the following month.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:21:32 PM EDT
This thread is getting almost humorous. Personally, I wouldn't put up with a $$ POS. I am enjoying the "its an LMT it is a tool" lines here. I'd Send it back.

And as someone mentioned earlier, if they let small stuff like this go, what else have they let go in the mfg process? This is some poor QC if you ask me. And you can damn sure bet that that QC wouldn't go through contracts to the gov.

Sure it may go bang for a number of rounds, but what or who is to say that for some reason it wouldn't be a KABOOM at some point.

I for one would not want to be worrying about that every time I went to shoot.

-md
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:03:31 PM EDT
Sorry dude,
Looks like a bushy I got, but mine was worse (looked like the forward assist was welded on then the weld mark was ground down or something)
Nope, Sorry
I sent it back for a new upper receiver, it was better.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:18:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KnobCreek:
Compared to let's say RockRiver or Stag arms uppers receivers, what's the 25% premium price on LMTs charged for. I've built up 6 guns on RR and Stag upper receivers with no issues on function or fit (I, too do not concern myself excessively with looks) Is it popularity, the "in thing" or is there some other attribute I'm missing. So the question is what does the premium get you compared to RR or Stag? I only ask because if I were to pay more than RR or Stag I would EXPECT something more.



You get more than RRA, easily. Stag is a high quality product, because it advertises little and does no R&D. LMT made a functioning 10.5, an enhanced BCG (which doesnt always work) the MRP, the SOPMOD, etc.

RRA and Bushmaster do not have (with possible limited run exceptions):
M4 feed ramps
square shoulder behind the barrel threads (bushmaster is known to have QC issues there)
F front sight base
RRA, IIRC uses 4140 steel, not 4150
MPI bolt carrier group and barrel (BFI tests by batch, LMT, Colt and some CMT/Stag products are checked 100%)

Theres more, but I am tired.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:26:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chargedmr2:
I'm note sure how many times I'll have to reitterate this point--I realize that these rifles are TOOLS. My question is very simple--"Is it normal for LMT's finish work to be poor quality?"



No, it is not!

There is your answer.

Tack
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:26:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By KnobCreek:
Compared to let's say RockRiver or Stag arms uppers receivers, what's the 25% premium price on LMTs charged for. I've built up 6 guns on RR and Stag upper receivers with no issues on function or fit (I, too do not concern myself excessively with looks) Is it popularity, the "in thing" or is there some other attribute I'm missing. So the question is what does the premium get you compared to RR or Stag? I only ask because if I were to pay more than RR or Stag I would EXPECT something more.



You get more than RRA, easily. Stag is a high quality product, because it advertises little and does no R&D. LMT made a functioning 10.5, an enhanced BCG (which doesnt always work) the MRP, the SOPMOD, etc.

RRA and Bushmaster do not have (with possible limited run exceptions):
M4 feed ramps
square shoulder behind the barrel threads (bushmaster is known to have QC issues there)
F front sight base
RRA, IIRC uses 4140 steel, not 4150
MPI bolt carrier group and barrel (BFI tests by batch, LMT, Colt and some CMT/Stag products are checked 100%)

Theres more, but I am tired.



Thanks for the list. I have numerous LMT products. I had THOUGHT the issues highlighted were with the finish of the raw/incomplete upper receiver and my comments were directed at the what drives the higher price of their incomplete uppers, not a complete upper. From what's been listed, I guess M4 feed ramps, a 4150 vs 4140 steel and squared shoulders
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:37:55 PM EDT
take a look at this lmt that tamaxx has on page 5 white drips and brown markings on the inside and the rails are all chipped
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:38:31 PM EDT
Why the fuck give someone so much shit when they ask a question? This guy buys his first LMT after hearing all of this LMT ranting and raving and now wants to know what the Lemmings that led him down the LMT path were smoking or if he just got a rare one. That's all he wanted to know!!! When you hear great things about a product designed to function a certain way, you still hope it looks as nice as the ones you already have and have no function issues with.

jeez guys. quit taking this as an oppurtunity to stand up and let everyone know you don't own a safe queen and that you are a real shooter who makes his rifle go bang and not stroke it all night.

a lot of the guys here have 1 or 2 rifles and want the one or two to NOT be the one or two out of 1000 that end up looking a little odd.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:53:11 PM EDT
+1 JosephR
My 2 LMT uppers are flawless.

myit
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:59:31 PM EDT
For a $485 barreled upper that thing better be fucking perfect!
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:02:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:02:40 PM EDT
If you are not satisfied, send it back.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:05:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By repub18:
For a $485 barreled upper that thing better be fucking perfect!



Bushmaster's price isnt too different.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:05:31 PM EDT
So when you buy a brand new car, do you not give a shit if there is a huge fucking scratch across the hood? I mean who cares? A car is meant to drive and it wont affect function.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:16:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By repub18:
So when you buy a brand new car, do you not give a shit if there is a huge fucking scratch across the hood? I mean who cares? A car is meant to drive and it wont affect function.



Apples=Apples, then an LMT=$45000 and has new auto blow job feature?

I own 5 different makers, so I am not an LMT whore. Just pointing out Kings of the safe Queens.

I got a ding in my 1886 Browning/Winchester. I didn't cry or wet the bed, guns are for shooting, not blinging in the safe fo' shizzle the LMT nizzle!
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:17:09 PM EDT
I second that --- Send it back - get a replacement or get your money back

I,m with chargedmr2 on this - Anyone spending that sort of money for a NEW LMT upper---
It BETTER be perfect.

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:19:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By repub18:
So when you buy a brand new car, do you not give a shit if there is a huge fucking scratch across the hood? I mean who cares? A car is meant to drive and it wont affect function.



Not just a car. Apparently it can be:

A sleek looking Porsche that runs all the time
A nice looking Buick Regal that runs all the time
or a POS looking 79 Datsun pick-up that runs all the time

I think what the folks are saying is that ya don't need to care how it looks, just pay a bit more for it and accept that it will "run all the time". For some of us function is all that matters, for some of us appearance is a sign of quality workmanship and giving a shit about your product. My only concern is that if people accept less than the best in any area of workmanship, what comes next. Maybe nothing, maybe a lot. The only way to ensure it doesn't progress is to make it known that it's not acceptable. So if you don't like it, return the friggin' thing.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:22:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By demilios4:
And as someone mentioned earlier, if they let small stuff like this go, what else have they let go in the mfg process? This is some poor QC if you ask me. And you can damn sure bet that that QC wouldn't go through contracts to the gov.


-md



The military could care less about some marks on the reciever. All that matters to them is function. I've seen plenty of brand new guns from colt and FN that looked a lot worse then that, but they worked and thats all that mattered.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:22:56 PM EDT
Feedramps not aligning is not a cosmetic issue. It looks poor in [your] ad too-

Oh, lets start bashing Colts now.
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