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Posted: 6/13/2009 7:25:08 AM EST
looking for info, experiences, expertise, opiniions, etc... on benefits/value of piston systems? Have not done much research - are they worth the etra mney? who makes them and who's version is the best value? thanks.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:46:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 7:46:32 AM EST by lamarbrog]
A few minor benefits, a lot of drawbacks.

Not something I would do.

If you want a piston, get an AK.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:49:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
A few minor benefits, a lot of drawbacks.

Not something I would do.

If you want a piston, get an AK.

Agreed.

But, someone will be along shortly saying they think it's the best thing since Toilet Paper.

Do some searches on the site here, plenty of threads about 'em.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:59:53 AM EST
right, just like you will see a bunch of people discount them and suggest anybody who likes them is a loon.

These same folks will also point out the AR was not designed to be a piston, so it's unpossible to successfully implement one.

These same folks will say middies are the best, even though Stoner originally designed the gun to be a rifle length system, and all the parts/systems were designed for rifle length pressures.

Bottom line. If you have a piston, you like it. If you don't have one, they suck.

So decide if you want your advice from people who own pistons or from people who've read about them.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:09:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By LX200:
right, just like you will see a bunch of people discount them and suggest anybody who likes them is a loon.

These same folks will also point out the AR was not designed to be a piston, so it's unpossible to successfully implement one.

These same folks will say middies are the best, even though Stoner originally designed the gun to be a rifle length system, and all the parts/systems were designed for rifle length pressures.

Bottom line. If you have a piston, you like it. If you don't have one, they suck.

So decide if you want your advice from people who own pistons or from people who've read about them.

Fail. Had one, didn't like it.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:46:11 AM EST
That makes one of you.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:03:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 11:06:21 AM EST by lamarbrog]
If someone offered one to me, I certainly wouldn't turn it down....

But, I wouldn't pay even $50 for an "upgrade" to one... They just don't do much.





What is the benefit?


-The bolt carrier group doesn't get as hot.
-Who cares? The bolt is supposed to last 10,000 rounds anyway, with a carbine length gas system. I don't know if we've seen any studies that prove the heat is sufficient to drastically reduce the life of the bolt. If a piston conversion costs $600, you can replace the bolt 10 times (you would need to replace the barrel about 5 times) before you would save any money. Other than that, I'm not taking the bolt carrier out to touch it to my face anyway...

-You don't get dirty gas in the action.
-The gas vents out of the action through the side of the bolt carrier... there are two ports specialized for this task. If you lubricate the rifle, the gas residue that does remain in the action will remain suspended, and won't interfere with function. You can shoot a lot of very dirty ammo, in very dirty conditions, before you'll see any problems. If you do get interference, spray more oil into the vent ports, and you'll be back on track.

-I can shoot the rifle without lubricant.
-I can shoot a DI system without lubricant, too. It might have failures earlier... But it will shoot without lube for several hundred rounds. I make a point to lube my rifle anyway... I don't know why you wouldn't want to lube it. Aside from improving function, it decreases wear on the parts. And, if you're in such a situation that you don't have lube... You're in bad shape. Practically anything that is sort of oil-ish will work. You need to be focusing on getting out of where you are, not laying down SAW-style fire with your AR. Besides, who carries more than 300-ish rounds for an AR anyway?


-In addition to all of this, you've now got a non-standard gas system, in addition to other parts. If you somehow damage your gas tube... You can easily replace it for $15. If you damage your piston system, Are you even going to be able to find parts? The bolt carrier, I don't know what you would do to damage it aside from a case head failure or something, is not standard.


-You get to pay a considerable cost for this.



Why?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:23:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 11:25:14 AM EST by AKS12]
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
If someone offered one to me, I certainly wouldn't turn it down....

But, I wouldn't pay even $50 for an "upgrade" to one... They just don't do much.





What is the benefit?


-The bolt carrier group doesn't get as hot.
-Who cares? The bolt is supposed to last 10,000 rounds anyway, with a carbine length gas system. I don't know if we've seen any studies that prove the heat is sufficient to drastically reduce the life of the bolt. If a piston conversion costs $600, you can replace the bolt 10 times (you would need to replace the barrel about 5 times) before you would save any money. Other than that, I'm not taking the bolt carrier out to touch it to my face anyway...

-You don't get dirty gas in the action.
-The gas vents out of the action through the side of the bolt carrier... there are two ports specialized for this task. If you lubricate the rifle, the gas residue that does remain in the action will remain suspended, and won't interfere with function. You can shoot a lot of very dirty ammo, in very dirty conditions, before you'll see any problems. If you do get interference, spray more oil into the vent ports, and you'll be back on track.

-I can shoot the rifle without lubricant.
-I can shoot a DI system without lubricant, too. It might have failures earlier... But it will shoot without lube for several hundred rounds. I make a point to lube my rifle anyway... I don't know why you wouldn't want to lube it. Aside from improving function, it decreases wear on the parts. And, if you're in such a situation that you don't have lube... You're in bad shape. Practically anything that is sort of oil-ish will work. You need to be focusing on getting out of where you are, not laying down SAW-style fire with your AR. Besides, who carries more than 300-ish rounds for an AR anyway?


-In addition to all of this, you've now got a non-standard gas system, in addition to other parts. If you somehow damage your gas tube... You can easily replace it for $15. If you damage your piston system, Are you even going to be able to find parts? The bolt carrier, I don't know what you would do to damage it aside from a case head failure or something, is not standard.


-You get to pay a considerable cost for this.



Why?


This sounds more like numerous people whining and complaining about the gas piston upgrades, and saying that the gas piston sucks because they are just simply "CHEAP" and don't have the money to pay for it. Dude, there's no need to push the subject so hard, Ok, we get it, You don't like it. But come on, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize that a gas piston on any platform = Cleaner, more reliable and Better performance.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 12:09:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By AKS12:


This sounds more like numerous people whining and complaining about the gas piston upgrades, and saying that the gas piston sucks because they are just simply "CHEAP" and don't have the money to pay for it. Dude, there's no need to push the subject so hard, Ok, we get it, You don't like it. But come on, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize that a gas piston on any platform = Cleaner, more reliable and Better performance.

Do some more research on how the AR/M16 was designed to work, and your last statement will become an generalization based on mainstream opinion, or even hype.

I had a piston system on my rifle. I didn't care how the thing felt with it, and after it broke I decided to get my money back and stick with ARs the way they were intended to function. Money was never the issue.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:45:24 PM EST
Oh boy! Another Piston thread.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:40:28 PM EST
Ya, and more companies are coming out with them, and they are working just great.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:53:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 6:56:28 PM EST by pistolpete]
I believe BigBore said it best. Paraphrasing here:

"Piston systems work great, just like the $12 part they replace."

I have 4 ARs, and in the 7000 some rounds between them (4000 rounds through one), I have yet to have an issue (not one). Funny thing is, my AK (Vector with 1000 rounds through it) has had many issues.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 6:21:31 AM EST
All the new rifle designs that the military are considering replacing the current M16 with or are using currently for SF are all gas pistons. HK 416, FN SCAR, etc. I have both. I like not having to spend so much time cleaning my Piston. (LWRC M6A2).
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:33:50 AM EST
It seems that there are definitely two camps............

Piston haters and Piston lovers. Not much middle ground. I will say that for the most part the piston haters are forming their opinions on experience with the older, first generation piston designs and the problems they had. I feel that if they would have been around when the AR was being developed back in the early 60's, they too might have had a negative opinion of those rifles also. They had major teething problems.

The piston lovers (myself included) have waited for some of the original bugs to be worked out. Are they perfect now...........no, but there have been no major failures associated with them that have been or can be documented/proven. I have heard of things as crazy as the upper breaking in two pieces, but no one has brought out any proof. If any proof can be brought up, is it with an older design or one of the latest ones from LWRCI, POF, LMT, Barrett??? Pistons have been out for a few years and have had constant changes/upgrades to address any issues that have been brought up. With these changes or improvements, I see that the Piston AR is going to be with us right alongside the DI versions.

My AR is an LMT MRP CQB Piston with the ability to change back to the MRP DI version anytime I like. Best of both worlds!!!!
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 11:42:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 11:44:25 AM EST by HKGuns]
Originally Posted By Cohibra45:
It seems that there are definitely two camps............

Piston haters and Piston lovers. Not much middle ground. I will say that for the most part the piston haters are forming their opinions on experience with the older, first generation piston designs and the problems they had. I feel that if they would have been around when the AR was being developed back in the early 60's, they too might have had a negative opinion of those rifles also. They had major teething problems.

The piston lovers (myself included) have waited for some of the original bugs to be worked out. Are they perfect now...........no, but there have been no major failures associated with them that have been or can be documented/proven. I have heard of things as crazy as the upper breaking in two pieces, but no one has brought out any proof. If any proof can be brought up, is it with an older design or one of the latest ones from LWRCI, POF, LMT, Barrett??? Pistons have been out for a few years and have had constant changes/upgrades to address any issues that have been brought up. With these changes or improvements, I see that the Piston AR is going to be with us right alongside the DI versions.

My AR is an LMT MRP CQB Piston with the ability to change back to the MRP DI version anytime I like. Best of both worlds!!!!


There really doesn't need to be other than you have a bunch of closed minded AR Kool-aid drinker fan boys who get all insulted when you suggest there is another, perhaps better way. The bottom line is that choice is a good thing, choose the one you want and/or can afford and move along. If the current AR platform were perfect there wouldn't be much to say....I suspect it is not perfect and as such is subject to innovation, which is another good thing for everyone.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:05:22 PM EST
DI ARs have pistons too... except they are in the upper reciever.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:06:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Monkey_Wrench:

Originally Posted By AKS12:


This sounds more like numerous people whining and complaining about the gas piston upgrades, and saying that the gas piston sucks because they are just simply "CHEAP" and don't have the money to pay for it. Dude, there's no need to push the subject so hard, Ok, we get it, You don't like it. But come on, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize that a gas piston on any platform = Cleaner, more reliable and Better performance.

Do some more research on how the AR/M16 was designed to work, and your last statement will become an generalization based on mainstream opinion, or even hype.

I had a piston system on my rifle. I didn't care how the thing felt with it, and after it broke I decided to get my money back and stick with ARs the way they were intended to function. Money was never the issue.



Which piston system broke on you?
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:55:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 12:57:06 PM EST by Winn]
Originally Posted By LX200:

That makes one of you.


Fail - Again ...

"You should quit while you're ahead."

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:47:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By LX200:

That makes one of you.


Fail - Again ...

"You should quit while you're ahead."




We need to help the OP with some facts, not just pot shots at one another!!!
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:56:04 PM EST
I have a POF p-415 upper and i love it,....had an issue with it in the beggining but turns out it was my fault =P Chris with POF*USA was fantastic and had me send it in and replaced the whole piston system with there newer version [mine was an older one] free of charge even though i wasnt covered under there warranty great company.

also have the DI system and have no complaints with it...the piston adds alittle weight but its much easier to clean the rifle..piston wipes clean with one swipe of a clothe and the chamber area doesnt get very dirty at all with good ammo but a wipe down is good to do.. the bolt also doesnt get hot with the piston upper so its alittle less stressfull on the bolt cutting down wear and malfunctions..

If you have the cash, the piston system is great...if not, the DI system is GTG aswell.

heres a pic of my rifle...gun porns never bad

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:00:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 2:02:20 PM EST by Winn]
Originally Posted By Cohibra45:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By LX200:

That makes one of you.


Fail - Again ...

"You should quit while you're ahead."




We need to help the OP with some facts, not just pot shots at one another!!!


Then YOU should be interested in accurate info, instead of "stats" full of fail, like ... "that makes one of you" comments ...

Wake up.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:05:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 2:55:24 PM EST by dan1802]
who made the piston system you used ? what didnt you like about the feel or function of it ? what broke ?

***re-direct question to Monkey_Wrench...wrong quote***

Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By Cohibra45:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By LX200:

That makes one of you.


Fail - Again ...

"You should quit while you're ahead."




We need to help the OP with some facts, not just pot shots at one another!!!


Then YOU should be interested in accurate info, instead of "stats" full of fail, like ... "that makes one of you" comments ...

Wake up.



Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:55:51 PM EST
No matter what system you have there is going to be ups and downs. I have a DI AR which puts rounds down range just fine. I would like to try the piston system one day and form my own opinion. From what I know of them, they are cleaner, that's great who wouldn't love that. The only thing I know for sure about them is that they are expensive! If it has been refined and most of the kinks have been worked out that's great, maybe it's worth the expense. Bottom line is this, there is no reason for everyone to get so worked up over them, if you personally don't like them that's fine, no need to knock some one else if they do. That's what is great about this country everyone can have their own opinion, and this is just mine take it or leave it, but no matter which system you choose as long as it puts rounds down range that's all that matters.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:45:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 3:47:28 PM EST by ShOcKeRpb]
From what I can regurgitate, the Piston system is better for SBRs or SBRs with cans that tend to be picky on ammo. Using a piston system on those can help make it more reliable. A piston system on rifles with longer and un-canned barrels tend to have more disadvantages than benefits IIRC.

ETA: To respond to the OP question, complete Piston uppers tend to be more reliable than the conversion kits, so LMT is a good choice.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 5:24:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By Cohibra45:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By LX200:

That makes one of you.


Fail - Again ...

"You should quit while you're ahead."




We need to help the OP with some facts, not just pot shots at one another!!!


Then YOU should be interested in accurate info, instead of "stats" full of fail, like ... "that makes one of you" comments ...

Wake up.



What accurate info??? All I have seen from you is a jab at LX200. Where is your accurate information??? Please post information and pictures to back it up.............in other words, put up or shut up!!!

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 5:54:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 5:57:50 PM EST by oneshot_onekill]
OK... I've heard enough! I've been reading pros and cons for weeks now! I'm gonna try to help settle this! I have an Armalite with DI. I just bought a Spikes Tactical with an Adams gas piston system installed by a gunsmith. I will be taking delivery of a POF upper with their gas piston system this week. I'll also be getting another DI gun this week. I plan to take them all to the range in a week or so. They all have 16" barrels. The 2 DI guns are a mid-length and an M4 length DI system. I'll post pictures and reliability results ASAP. The only issue I have is a limited supply of ammo... But I AM in a unique position having just acquired all but the mid-length Armalite. Can't wait to at least put MY mind at rest about this!!! (Anyone care to donate some ammo to the cause???... Of course AFTER I post the picture of all 4 together.)

Just kiddin' ...about the ammo. The rest is true!
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 7:35:54 PM EST
Took my LWRC A1 to the range the other day for the first time as well as an A2 parts made shooter.

Flawless performance after about 150-200 rounds. The LWRC rifle was FAR cleaner than I expected and had little debris. Most of what I saw was brass bits from the extractor. The bolt, carrier and barrel were far cleaner than the A2 with 1/4 as many rounds.

To me, the LWRC seems heavier duty, cooler and I would imagine, more reliable. The AR got hot inside fairly quickly.

I don't believe the bolt tilt BS for a quality LWRC or LMT system. Cheap knockoffs? Maybe.

If money was not an issue then go with an LWRC. Glad I did.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 8:04:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 8:05:29 PM EST by Josh3239]
My $0.02,

My $8 gas tube will do what any +/- $400 gas piston will do just as well, if not better. If you want them, that is fine. If you like them, that is fine. But it doesn't make any sense to say that it makes an AR more reliable. You are adding more (moving) parts to the rifle, thus adding more parts that can fail. Do gas pistons have their place? Sure they do. Are they going to stop a bolt from breaking? Nope. How about an extractor? Nope. If you have a crappy magazine or a good one that isn't seated properly, is a DI going to have a problem with it while a gas piston won't? Nope. Can you get away without lubing a DI AR? Sure, but why would you want to increase the potential for problems, if not enhanced wear. Can you get away without lubing a piston AR? Sure, but why would you want to increase the potential for problems, if not enhanced wear.

Colt did in fact make a some gas piston ARs many years ago and no matter how you look at it, the DI's won that battle. So no gas piston ARs are not new. They seem to be one of the biggest "crazes" as of recently, however I don't believe it is a fad. I think some other people mentioned all the new gas piston systems out there, insinuating that they are better because all the new companies are making them. Please... these companies are jumping on the this craze's money train (not to mention this coupled with the Obama EBR Panic money train). Do the math, sell a gas tube for $8 or a gas piston convertion kit for $400.

In my personal opinion, they are unnecessary and overpriced. But I am a big believer in people buying what makes them happy.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 11:55:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 12:04:26 AM EST by Nessal]
Here is my 2 cents. I have owned/built 5 DI AR15s (some for myself, some not, I only did own 3 at one point) and 1 piston AR15. Currently I sold all but kept the LMT and the CMMG piston AR. My DI ar's that I have owned are LMT, Armalite, Spike's tatical, RRA, and BCM. My piston is built on a CMMG upper with the PWS piston system. I went with the PWS because of its simplicity and a design that makes the most sense to me with a solid rod built on the bolt carrier. It utilizes standard BCG which allows me to swap any standard carriers that is used in a DI AR as compared to POF, LWRC, etc which uses a proprietary BC so you have to use their BC with their rifles. Currently, as far as my experience goes they are the same as far as function and accuracy, though contrary to popular belief on the latter.

What I like about the piston design is that it allows me to clean the gun in less than 15 minutes. The piston assembly can be taken apart in about 10 seconds and cleaning the parts are easy as can be. Then I clean out the barrel and I'm set. I only clean out the upper once out of 5 outtings because it's stays clean. Even after cleaning out the upper, there isn't much fouling if at all. Call BS if you want, but the felt recoil on the PWS is LESS than my DI ARs. It was very noticible and verified by two other parties. It's using a standard H buffer. As far as accuracy goes, my last outting which was this past friday, I can hit 1-1.5moa groups at 100yards with Centurian 5.56 with iron sights after I made some adjustments to the way I shoot. My previous outtings I was only hitting 1.5MOA to 2MOA at 75 and 100 yards. My DI's were shooting the same. IMO it's up to the operator with these guns. If i'm trying to shoot sub MOA I'll be handloading my own ammunition with good optics or getting a Remington 700(next rifle). As far as bolt tilt goes, I do not notice the infamous bolt carrier tilt that was reported on other piston systems anymore than my DI guns if any at all.

Do I think that paying $500 bucks was worth it for the PWS retrofit? I have no regrets. However, it is really a niche market and for someone that have built over 5 AR's, it was something that I wanted to explore out of curiosity and I have no regrets. I don't think that there are inherant benefits from switching to a piston AR except for cleaning and choosing to run without lubrication(I always use lube regardless). Unless you are going into battle where the terrain/situation will limit the reliability of your firearm and equipment to clean your gun stick with a DI. If curiosity has got the better of you, why not see what is on the other side of the fence?

BTW, if I'm planing to spend a full day at the range(6hrs+) I bring the piston AR so I can clean up faster when I get home. All other times, it's up to what I'm feeling for the day.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:38:45 AM EST
Here's what makes me feel OK about the 2 Piston Uppers I just bought... First: I've heard and read that the US Military may be moving toward changing to a gas-piston system. Second: It looks like many manufacturers are now offering a gas-piston gun. Personally, I've never shot one... yet. That's going to change probably this weekend. I'm nervous and excited at the same time!
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:03:23 AM EST
aside from DI / piston discussion...
which piston system is the best?

Adams Arm
CMMG
Ares
PWS

I'm leaning toward Adams Arms. Seems like they really put them into test unlike other systems...
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:08:56 AM EST
My Spikes upper has the Adams system in it. Haven't shot it yet. I'll know soon enough. I looked at the "add-ons" I could find and the Adams looks to be the nicest.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 3:19:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By Nessal:
Here is my 2 cents. I have owned/built 5 DI AR15s (some for myself, some not, I only did own 3 at one point) and 1 piston AR15. Currently I sold all but kept the LMT and the CMMG piston AR. My DI ar's that I have owned are LMT, Armalite, Spike's tatical, RRA, and BCM. My piston is built on a CMMG upper with the PWS piston system. I went with the PWS because of its simplicity and a design that makes the most sense to me with a solid rod built on the bolt carrier. It utilizes standard BCG which allows me to swap any standard carriers that is used in a DI AR as compared to POF, LWRC, etc which uses a proprietary BC so you have to use their BC with their rifles. Currently, as far as my experience goes they are the same as far as function and accuracy, though contrary to popular belief on the latter.

What I like about the piston design is that it allows me to clean the gun in less than 15 minutes. The piston assembly can be taken apart in about 10 seconds and cleaning the parts are easy as can be. Then I clean out the barrel and I'm set. I only clean out the upper once out of 5 outtings because it's stays clean. Even after cleaning out the upper, there isn't much fouling if at all. Call BS if you want, but the felt recoil on the PWS is LESS than my DI ARs. It was very noticible and verified by two other parties. It's using a standard H buffer. As far as accuracy goes, my last outting which was this past friday, I can hit 1-1.5moa groups at 100yards with Centurian 5.56 with iron sights after I made some adjustments to the way I shoot. My previous outtings I was only hitting 1.5MOA to 2MOA at 75 and 100 yards. My DI's were shooting the same. IMO it's up to the operator with these guns. If i'm trying to shoot sub MOA I'll be handloading my own ammunition with good optics or getting a Remington 700(next rifle). As far as bolt tilt goes, I do not notice the infamous bolt carrier tilt that was reported on other piston systems anymore than my DI guns if any at all.

Do I think that paying $500 bucks was worth it for the PWS retrofit? I have no regrets. However, it is really a niche market and for someone that have built over 5 AR's, it was something that I wanted to explore out of curiosity and I have no regrets. I don't think that there are inherant benefits from switching to a piston AR except for cleaning and choosing to run without lubrication(I always use lube regardless). Unless you are going into battle where the terrain/situation will limit the reliability of your firearm and equipment to clean your gun stick with a DI. If curiosity has got the better of you, why not see what is on the other side of the fence?

BTW, if I'm planing to spend a full day at the range(6hrs+) I bring the piston AR so I can clean up faster when I get home. All other times, it's up to what I'm feeling for the day.



Good points. For me, the likely added reliability and MUCH LESS cleaning were dispositive. An extra $500 or whatever for the LWRC is not a major issue for me. I am not going to own several of these, so I prefer 1 or 2 that are top shelf.

I preferred the LWRC based on the reviews and perception that the unit is solidly engineered, but would be a little leery about aftermarket systems.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 3:35:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 3:35:49 PM EST by Obey]
Originally Posted By Cohibra45:

My AR is an LMT MRP CQB Piston with the ability to change back to the MRP DI version anytime I like. Best of both worlds!!!!


You and me both. I like the piston, but I even more like the ability to swap back and forth!



Link Posted: 6/15/2009 4:01:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 4:03:02 PM EST by Winn]
Originally Posted By Cohibra45:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By Cohibra45:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By LX200:

That makes one of you.


Fail - Again ...

"You should quit while you're ahead."




We need to help the OP with some facts, not just pot shots at one another!!!


Then YOU should be interested in accurate info, instead of "stats" full of fail, like ... "that makes one of you" comments ...

Wake up.



What accurate info??? All I have seen from you is a jab at LX200. Where is your accurate information??? Please post information and pictures to back it up.............in other words, put up or shut up!!!


K.

Let's see here tough guy ...

You want posted "information" and posted "pictures" to "back up" the fact that comments & "stats"-full-of-fail like: "... that makes one of you..." are completely inaccurate, untrue, irrelevant and uninformative statements, within the context of the topic being discussed as well as the discussion at hand.

And ... you ... want someone to ... post pics ... of that.

WoW.



R.I.F.

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 4:11:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By oneshot_onekill:
Here's what makes me feel OK about the 2 Piston Uppers I just bought... First: I've heard and read that the US Military may be moving toward changing to a gas-piston system. Second: It looks like many manufacturers are now offering a gas-piston gun. Personally, I've never shot one... yet. That's going to change probably this weekend. I'm nervous and excited at the same time!


And there in lies the problem. Until the military settles on one, getting one of the proprietary systems is problematic. Parts compatibility with .mil weapons is one of the primary reason for using a DI AR. If SHTF you can pull any part out an M4 and use it in your DI AR...

When the military settles on a general use Piston, I will get the civvy version. Until then, I will use the civvy version of what they have...

...Though I will admit having been tempted by the LMT piston when considering what rifle to buy for my most recent purchase, I still bought a Colt 6920 instead...
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 4:39:01 PM EST
Fair enough!
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 4:39:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By Cohibra45:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By Cohibra45:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By LX200:

That makes one of you.


Fail - Again ...

"You should quit while you're ahead."




We need to help the OP with some facts, not just pot shots at one another!!!


Then YOU should be interested in accurate info, instead of "stats" full of fail, like ... "that makes one of you" comments ...

Wake up.



What accurate info??? All I have seen from you is a jab at LX200. Where is your accurate information??? Please post information and pictures to back it up.............in other words, put up or shut up!!!


K.

Let's see here tough guy ...

You want posted "information" and posted "pictures" to "back up" the fact that comments & "stats"-full-of-fail like: "... that makes one of you..." are completely inaccurate, untrue, irrelevant and uninformative statements, within the context of the topic being discussed as well as the discussion at hand.

And ... you ... want someone to ... post pics ... of that.

WoW.



R.I.F.



W,

No tough guy at all............You probably know that by now!!!

I'm just trying to help out the original poster and comments like yours and others here without any 'facts' don't do anything other than spout opinions. At the most they reference a single case scenario, not a generic problem. Just wanted to see if you had any information that could be authenticated.



Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:59:34 PM EST
i have prepared a large quanity of cool aid enemas. i hope i`ll have enough after this thread .
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:17:45 PM EST
Adams was chosen by Spikes, and by S&W.... what does that tell ya ?

I have one on and LMT carbine.... has worked great first 500 rounds. No FTF or FTE.... and so much cleaner.

Originally Posted By blkdawg:
aside from DI / piston discussion...
which piston system is the best?

Adams Arm
CMMG
Ares
PWS

I'm leaning toward Adams Arms. Seems like they really put them into test unlike other systems...


Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:44:10 PM EST
I think most people that hate the piston guns on this forum hate them because it is out of their price range. Very few of them have experience with it, let alone ever shot one. They can't give a good reason why they hate them, they just hate them.
I like them because they are just as accurate as the DI (contrary to popular myth makers) and you do not have to keep adding lube to the BCG. If your running short barrels, I would take a piston of a DI any day. If your 14.5 and above DI is fine. But if your shooting a lot of rounds you always have to have lube handy to add to the BCG. Another note, I have never had any problems with my LMT or LWRCI piston guns in regard to "carrier tilt".
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:44:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By blkdawg:
aside from DI / piston discussion...
which piston system is the best?

Adams Arm
CMMG
Ares
PWS

I'm leaning toward Adams Arms. Seems like they really put them into test unlike other systems...


LWRCI and LMT are the best in my opinion.

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:50:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 7:54:03 PM EST by js308]
Originally Posted By BR870:
Originally Posted By oneshot_onekill:
Here's what makes me feel OK about the 2 Piston Uppers I just bought... First: I've heard and read that the US Military may be moving toward changing to a gas-piston system. Second: It looks like many manufacturers are now offering a gas-piston gun. Personally, I've never shot one... yet. That's going to change probably this weekend. I'm nervous and excited at the same time!


And there in lies the problem. Until the military settles on one, getting one of the proprietary systems is problematic. Parts compatibility with .mil weapons is one of the primary reason for using a DI AR. If SHTF you can pull any part out an M4 and use it in your DI AR...

When the military settles on a general use Piston, I will get the civvy version. Until then, I will use the civvy version of what they have...

...Though I will admit having been tempted by the LMT piston when considering what rifle to buy for my most recent purchase, I still bought a Colt 6920 instead...



So if shit hits the fan, your going to pull apart an M4 upper that you find lying around just to extract the barrel? Who cares if barrels are proprietary, the lower is the same, if my piston upper fails and I see a DI AR upper lying around, i would just remove the whole piston upper and slap on the DI upper. That proprietary barrel crap is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. WIth all do respect......
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:09:56 PM EST
just do not get a drop in kit.
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