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Posted: 4/12/2006 8:53:10 AM EST
I ordered 3131A from a wholesaler and got 3131. Called ammunitionplus.com to order from them and they told me that Winchester is labeling their part number as 3131A but is shipping 3131. Nobody have the real 3131A anymore that I can find!

What gives?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:11:18 AM EST
Organize a march!
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:20:00 AM EST
If Im not mistaken isnt Q3131 up to xm193 spec in terms of velocity and just a better ammo? Also does it have the nato cross and circle on the case head?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:28:55 AM EST
Same stuff.


Just shoot it.


Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:32:34 AM EST
The info I found here at arfcom (according to Troy) is the 3131 is 2nd tier and 3131A is 1st tier.

So obviously I would prefer the better 3131A
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:35:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By davidkxx:
The info I found here at arfcom (according to Troy) is the 3131 is 2nd tier and 3131A is 1st tier.

So obviously I would prefer the better 3131A




Winchester/Olin doesn't run the LC plant. So what ammo is Winchester making that Q3131 would be seconds of?


Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:46:41 AM EST



Federal/ATK Winchester/Olin IMI

Grade 1 LC M193 - LC M855 WCC M193 - M855 TZZ M193/Q3131A

Grade 2 Fed XM193 - XM855 Q3131 - WCC M855

Grade 3 Fed XM193PD - XM855PD


from troy
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=276165
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:08:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By davidkxx:
The info I found here at arfcom (according to Troy) is the 3131 is 2nd tier and 3131A is 1st tier.

So obviously I would prefer the better 3131A



This TIER BULLSHIT HAS GOTTEN OUT OF FUCKING CONTROL!

3131 and 3131a aren't even made in the same country, let alone the same fucking plant.

3131 is USA made M193

3131a is Israeli made M193.

Now how in the hell could one be a Queer tier to another?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:12:34 AM EST
I was at the gun shop this morning to get the 870 worked on. My smith got a phone call and then said "looks like a case of 5.56 is going in the back." I asked what was up and he said that there is no more Q3131A, it will all be Q3131 from here out. I didn't inquire as to who the call was from. For what it's worth...
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:15:44 AM EST
I did not say that 3131 was 2nd tier to 3131

The concept of the tiers as I understand it does not mean that one is a tier to another but as a comparision to the quality of the same manufacturer.

3131 by winchester is supposedly 2nd tier to itself, meaning winchester sells the good stuff that it produces elsewhere (military?) and packages the rest as 3131 and sells it to us.

the 3131A made by IMI for winchester is top tier meaning the good rounds are not siphened off and sold elsewhere but are sold to us.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:21:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By davidkxx:
The info I found here at arfcom (according to Troy) is the 3131 is 2nd tier and 3131A is 1st tier.

So obviously I would prefer the better 3131A



I would not say Q3131 is 2nd tier. Maybe the old stuff, but current production Q3131 should store and shoot just fine.

Then again, thanks for the compliment.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:22:40 AM EST
Ok ok! I misunderstood your reply. In any case, I wouldn't care one way or another on 3131 vs. 3131a.

Shoot! If you lived near me, I'd trade you out for it! w00t!

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:42:20 AM EST
Like the man said. Q3131A WAS made in Israel for Winchester. Now winchester again makes their own 5.56 which is Q3131. And there are differences. Just take a look at one round compared to the other.
JR
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 11:03:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 11:06:16 AM EST by Spooge5150]
Winchester/Olin doesn't have some super secret ammo plant that they make second hand ammo at.

Old Winchester Q3131 was made at LC on LC tools boxed as Q3131. M-193 ammo.


New Winchester Q3131 is made by Winchester at a Winchester plant. M-193 spec ammo.


Same shit. Different day.

ETA: Please don't worry about a NATO cross on the brass. It has no meaning to this ammo, as there is no NATO spec for M-193. They had brass they were going to use for making M855, and used it for making this.

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 11:45:35 AM EST
The voice of fact.

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By davidkxx:
The info I found here at arfcom (according to Troy) is the 3131 is 2nd tier and 3131A is 1st tier.

So obviously I would prefer the better 3131A



This TIER BULLSHIT HAS GOTTEN OUT OF FUCKING CONTROL!

3131 and 3131a aren't even made in the same country, let alone the same fucking plant.

3131 is USA made M193

3131a is Israeli made M193.

Now how in the hell could one be a Queer tier to another?

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 1:37:08 PM EST
Are they both loaded to achieve the same velocity?

Is Q3131 sealed at both ends?

Do either of them use low flash powder?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:13:30 PM EST
I've shot over a K of the new 3131 and haven't seen a single flaw that would lead me to believe 3131 is second rate ammo. I also doubt Winchester would ruin their good name for the sake of off loading a few crates of rejected PD type ammo especially boxed as regular commercial USA ammo. I have also not seen any thing printed stating they are under obligation to sell the gov every rnd they can possibly produce. I have no inside scoop on this ammo but do try to keep informed about the ammo I'm shooting and stocking up on. Until Winchester designates a stock number for rejected ammo clearly being sold as 2nd teir I'm satisfied I'm buying actual q3131 1st rate thug thump'm good stuff.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 3:30:57 AM EST

folks interested in the details of Q3131 vs Q3131A only have to run a quick search to discover the 8000 threads that were posted about this subject over the last year. for example, there is chrono data, headstamp info, lot numbers, and pictures of a pulled bullet in this 10 page thread:
archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=254094

also, check out Zhukov's poll thread on the Q3131 as well; tons of good info there from people who have actually shot the new Q3131.

ps:
for all practical purposes, Win/IMI Q3131A = new Win/USA Q3131 = Federal/LC XM193.
your target or the bad guy will not know the difference.

ar-jedi







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