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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 11/13/2003 9:20:48 PM EDT
i've been reading here about some scopes trying to learn some stuff. i have just been called up to active duty (in army reserves) and was wondering what cqb scope would fit me best. i will be patrolling the streets of iraq(1 year tour in country, total of up to 18 months) want something for cqb to medium ranges. been looking at eo tech, trijicon's, any others i should look into?? i am in an artillery battalion that will be crosstrained as mp's (hence no nothing bout scopes) and attached to an active duty division, brigade or battalion, b/c there isn't any need for artillery over there, and we aren't issued cqb scopes (b/c of being artillery) i wanted to invest into something that will withstand the rigors of combat, and not fail, money will pretty much be no object as i am selling my car to buy me some goodies. sleeping bag that packs very very small, magazine couplers :) , and anything else that will HELP ME carry out my mission. i am a good shot, haven't ever shot less than a 35 out of 40 when qualifying(and have no problem when hunting or going to the range, been nailing 12 oz. cans at 50,75,&100 yards with open sights and knocking them down left and fu(kin right,:) ) but would like an extra edge, and this will be on my m16 with the regular iron sights, and i also have the 203 on my m16(will that cause any complications in mounting?)
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 9:30:02 PM EDT
Aimpoint, because the batteries last so long, or a Compact ACOG, because its a hell of a sight, and doesn't need batteries. The EOTech is supposed to be handy, but it eats batteries, and thats probably not something good to have if its your personal equipment, and nobody will be issuing you a bunch of batteries. Also, the comp ACOG mounts straight to the carry handle. If you are using the grenade launcher sight that is mounted to the carry handle, you will have to choose it or the optics, unless you can figure a way to fit both into the same hole. Good luck, stay safe.
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 10:24:01 PM EDT
ok couple more questions, are all of these nvg compatable, and am i able to binocular aim with all of these sights?? 1.5x16 1.5x24 1.5x56 2x20 3x24 4x32 which of these trijicons should i go with if i pick this brand??? or aimpoint ??
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 10:29:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2003 10:34:18 PM EDT by Paladin21]
reflex?
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 1:10:13 AM EDT
If you get an ACOG get a red reticle its eaier to see. Also stay away from reticles with thin lines like crosshair or chevron as the BAC is harder to pick up and use effectively. I would stick with donut or triangle in red with 2, 3, 3.5 or 4 power magnification. If you dont NEED a scope an Aimpoint would be a hell of a lot easier to use in close quarters and cheaper too.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 3:21:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 5:02:19 AM EDT
I'm going to say stay away from the ACOGs for your mission for several reasons: 1) They cost 2x as much 2) They take training and practice to use the BAC effectively (range time you probably won't be getting). 3) Average engagement distances have been well under 100M (around 30M from what I've seen) at that distance you don't need magnification. Your two best bets are the Eo Tech 552. It runs on AA batteries - get some Energizer NiMH (Nickle-Metal Hydride NOT the NiCads [Nickle Cadnium]) and plug in recharger. Takes an hour to recharge the battereis. A pair should be good for a week - 16 hours a day of operation (see my post on testing the EO Tech). Don't use the batteries for more than a week without recharging. The other 'best bet' is an Aimpoint M2. NVG compatible, its what the Army issues, and long battery life (bring spares though). One note - do you know what weapon you will be using over there? If its your issued M16A2 you're going to need a gooseneck mount like the ARMS #39 or the PRI mount. If you buy the Aimpoint the ARMS#39 is the better mount - if you get the EO Tech you're better off with the PRI mount.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:54:47 AM EDT
Haven't been to Iraq myself but I'd edit your topic to reflect your deployment there so that the guys who have can stop by and weigh in with what worked for them. Not having firsthand experience in that environment, I'd be loathe to recommend a sight to you that may not work in it. Any advice I give you is going to be the blind leading the blind on this subject. Having said that, Forest's ideas on the subject closely match my own, with the exception that I think the magnification is useful for target identification in a restrictive ROE environment even at closer ranges. A cameraman pointing a video camera over his shoulder at you can look like a guy with an RPG from a distance - especially when the media guys are usually wearing high dollar body armor anyway. Magnification helps in that scenario. However, if the AARs I've seen are any indication (visit the CALL website and you should be able to access a lot more AARs than I have), a lot of shooting will be close in and the Aimpoint or EOtech's speed will be a big help. I'd go with an Aimpoint myself, because a few N batteries will last a long time and the Aimpoint is durable and solid. With the EOtech, batteries are a bigger consideration. An AR15.com member currently in Iraq says that standard AA batteries are all that are available through unit supply and they are frequently out of stock. So you will either have to swing regular care packages of batteries or use the recharger setup Forest mentioned and hope it doesn't get snagged/broken. If your battery supply plan gets interrupted for more than a week, then your sight will be going down as well. However, the EOtech is fast and has a big field of view. I know they are being used successfully over there as well, so it is all a question of what fits YOUR needs. Also do us a favor by coming back safe and giving us a rundown of what gear worked and what gear didn't.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:05:42 AM EDT
I'd say get an Aimpoint ML2/M2 with 5,000+ hours of operation or a Compact ACOG 2x red Triangle with 12 years.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:42:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Forest: I'm going to say stay away from the ACOGs for your mission for several reasons: 1) They cost 2x as much 2) They take training and practice to use the BAC effectively (range time you probably won't be getting). 3) Average engagement distances have been well under 100M (around 30M from what I've seen) at that distance you don't need magnification. Your two best bets are the Eo Tech 552. It runs on AA batteries - get some Energizer NiMH (Nickle-Metal Hydride NOT the NiCads [Nickle Cadnium]) and plug in recharger. Takes an hour to recharge the battereis. A pair should be good for a week - 16 hours a day of operation (see my post on testing the EO Tech). Don't use the batteries for more than a week without recharging. The other 'best bet' is an Aimpoint M2. NVG compatible, its what the Army issues, and long battery life (bring spares though). One note - do you know what weapon you will be using over there? If its your issued M16A2 you're going to need a gooseneck mount like the ARMS #39 or the PRI mount. If you buy the Aimpoint the ARMS#39 is the better mount - if you get the EO Tech you're better off with the PRI mount.
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ur right on the money. i'll clear it up a little with what i need 1) i need something with a wide field of view(eo tech looks like it would suit me better) but the magnification would help with magnification as bartholomew stated ( then aimpoint) 2) ease of use (but i do have about 2 months ( 2 months of going to the range by me , until i report to mp school and then another 2-3 months until i'm in iraq) 3) rugged construction. 4) doesn't eat batteries ( aimpoint would be better) basically it looks like the aimpoint would be better in everything except field of view. and i do have the 203 mounted but i can always take off the sights that are mounted to the carrying handle b/c there is another 203 sight right in front of the front sight post for shorter distances.the one by the carrying handle is more for long range distances up to i think 700m or 800m(which i most likely won't be engaging the enemy anywhere close to that) that being said, whats the difference between the aimpoint 2 and aimpoint 4? magnification?
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 8:18:42 AM EDT
I would go with the Eotech 552.Just take a supply of Lithium AA's with you and FaGedaboutit. You cant beat the Field of view and the 1 moa for the longer shots.If I was going to Comabat thats what I would take. My $.02
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 8:47:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2003 8:47:36 AM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 12:57:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:08:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paladin21: 1) i need something with a wide field of view(eo tech looks like it would suit me better) but the magnification would help with magnification as bartholomew stated ( then aimpoint)
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B.R. is right the magnification does help with target ID (I used that trick myself in a class once). Aimpoint's field of view is fine - nothing wrong with it IMHO. As both allow both-eyes-opene shooting you won't notice any difference.
2 months of going to the range by me , until i report to mp school and then another 2-3 months until i'm in iraq)
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If you have 2 months of practice than I'd take a look at the compact ACOG (2x or 3x) and practice with it. See if you can attend a basic carbine class (2-3 days is fine) with it from one of the bettern known instructors (check with James Yeager in the Training section to see if he has one going on between now and your deployment date). That will get you used to using the optic at speed and under pressure better than any individual range time.
3) rugged construction.
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Aimpoint, EO Tech, Trijicon all three are very rugged.
4) doesn't eat batteries ( aimpoint would be better)
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That leaves you with the Aimpoint or Trijicon.
and i do have the 203 mounted but i can always take off the sights that are mounted to the carrying handle b/c there is another 203 sight right in front of the front sight post for shorter distances.
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Warning! Installing any optic may prevent you from using the M203 properly! I think you might be SOL on this one. Bear with me its been almost 20 years since I used a M203 but from what I remember. If you remove the quadrant sight (the one on the side of the carry handle) you could mount the Compact ACOG. However you won't be able to use the rear sight with the M203 flip up sight (on the handguard) as it sits too high (the scope will block the view). The goosneck mount for the Aimpoint will not fit with the quadrant sight mounted - so you'll have to remove it. If you use the Aimpoint Gooseneck (rather than the ARMS#39) you might have enought room for the 'flip up' M203 sight - but check to make sure the Aimpoint won't interfer with the sight and getting a good sight picture at ALL the ranges. See if you can check before you ship out. Good Luck, let us know how it turns out!
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