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Posted: 1/13/2005 6:59:05 AM EDT
Hey guys, I am looking at buying this one AR and it has the fixed carry handle on top. Is it possible to mount a scope on one of these an if so, what does it take to do it?

Thanks
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 7:02:07 AM EDT
Most prefer the A3 flat-top when scopes are in the mix, as the A2 w/ scope mounted on the handle are generally considered "too-high" for a consistent cheek-weld.

Mike
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 7:04:11 AM EDT
No, its already got the fixed carry handle so is it possible to mount a scope to it? Will it function ok?
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 7:05:30 AM EDT
This is a almost NEW PWA commando with fixed carry handle in 223. 20" heavy barrel. $675

Does this sound like a good deal?
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 7:07:27 AM EDT
You need to get a mount like:
A.R.M.S.® #02 M16 Scope Mount

www.armsmounts.com/catalog.php?action=110&cat_id=1

I have my aimpoint mounted on my carry handle.  it works well for a red dot.  

if you are using a "normal" scope I would recommend getting a delta stock or a cheekpiece if you have a tele-stock

Don
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 7:14:15 AM EDT
Thanks, that helps a bunch.  Do you know anything about the PWA Commando's? Are they any good and would one in like new condition be worth $675?
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 7:20:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By harley72:
No, its already got the fixed carry handle so is it possible to mount a scope to it? Will it function ok?



Here I'll try typing a little slower for ya......

The A2 (AR15) which you are asking about has a fixed carry handle (I do know this, btw) when you use a mount (such as the one listed above or any of the zillion cheaper versions) your scope will be so high, that you will need the Delta cheek piece mentioned above (which negates the use of your iron-sights) in order to get a proper/consistent cheek weld.

For this reason most folks who intend on mounting a scope to their AR15 "prefer" to use the A3 flat-top upper which will not require additional cheek-rests added to the stock in order to achieve consistent accuracy.

Hope this explaination is more compatible with your comprehension abilities.....

Mike
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 7:27:32 AM EDT
It really comes down to how you want to use your rifle.  Sorry I don't know anything about the weapon you listed....

If you want to use it in CQB, I would agree and go with the A3

However, if you want to use the weapon for longer distances (such as varmint shooting)  you will be great with the scope on the carry handle.  But you will need the delta cheekpiece to get the proper cheek weld.

It really just comes down to how you are going to use your weapon!

Good luck!

PS Note my carry handle config...http://student.umpi.maine.edu/~gibsond/collection2.JPG
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 7:37:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By harley72:
No, its already got the fixed carry handle so is it possible to mount a scope to it? Will it function ok?



Here I'll try typing a little slower for ya......

The A2 (AR15) which you are asking about has a fixed carry handle (I do know this, btw) when you use a mount (such as the one listed above or any of the zillion cheaper versions) your scope will be so high, that you will need the Delta cheek piece mentioned above (which negates the use of your iron-sights) in order to get a proper/consistent cheek weld.

For this reason most folks who intend on mounting a scope to their AR15 "prefer" to use the A3 flat-top upper which will not require additional cheek-rests added to the stock in order to achieve consistent accuracy.

Hope this explaination is more compatible with your comprehension abilities.....hr



I will try an type a little slower for you.

"I am looking at buying this one AR and it has the fixed carry handle on top"

I know that an A3 is what would be best but that was not my question. I hope this helps your paying attention to the thread abilitiies.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 7:47:10 AM EDT
Here a pix  of my bushy 20"  with heavy  barrel,  consistant accuracy hasnt been a issue with this sit up.
I  also have another AR/M4gery  with flat top & mounted aimpoint.




TG
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 7:50:38 AM EDT
FWIW, given your lack comprehension skills you'll never get past the 4473 questions, so I'd forget the prospect of ever becoming a gun owner.

Mike

ps - the advice I tried to give ya is fairly common around here, although your response to it has been quite unusual.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 8:05:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
FWIW, given your lack comprehension skills you'll never get past the 4473 questions, so I'd forget the prospect of ever becoming a gun owner.

Mike

ps - the advice I tried to give ya is fairly common around here, although your response to it has been quite unusual.



Mr_Wilson,

I can tell that you are one of those people who like to talk down to others. That doesn't say alot about your character. You have never met me so I don't see how you feel that you have the knowledge to judge my comprehension skills. I asked a very clear question and instead of answering the question that I asked, you told me to look at at a differnt part all together. After I treied to make things more clear, you have to be rude. You can TRY and talk down to me all you like as I have nothing but sympothy for people like yourself. Thanks for nothing.

PS, I own many rifles and hand guns. Though I know that was just another rude meaningless statement from you.

I wish you the best.

Harley
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 8:11:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 8:12:47 AM EDT by gilfrd]
BS Mike.

You pull this insulting crap any chance you get.

My suggestion is try not to be such a smartass all the time, but I expect a smartassed reply from this anyhow.

He asked a question, you replied with useless information.

Improve YOUR comprehension skills.

note the lack of smiley

eta - sp
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 8:20:40 AM EDT
Harley,, the scope mount for the  carry handle can be bought cheap, depending on  what ya like and what purpose it is serving. As posted above, you may want a cheek piece to get a good cheek weld to the stock.   Have seen some issues of the cheaper scope mount coming loose under recoil. Never heard of PWA, sorry.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 8:25:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 8:33:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 8:35:07 AM EDT by Wingman26]
Here's a cheaper alternative, less than half the price of the ARMS mount show above, it's from Rock River Arms so it's decent quality, and the vendor is ADCO, they are good people also.  They are on back order right now, but if you can wait a little, you will save a lot.

www.adcofirearms.com/rockriver/rockrivermnts.cfm?page=rra
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 8:40:28 AM EDT
To actually add to this discussion....


I purchased a cheapo carry handle mounted 4x scope for 40 bucks at a gunshow, it even has adjustible reticle illumination!!

That scope does not give me sub MOA groups but it does keep them on a 4" diameter paper plate.

Iron sights work better for me, I've gone to using the scope for spotting mostly now.

I don't understand the cheek weld requirement though. I shoot it fine without one....

Like Bookhound said, whatever feels best to you is what works best, different strokes and such.

I hope you find something you like!
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 8:53:49 AM EDT
My character is not the question here.

You asked about purchasing an A2 AR15 and mounting a scope atop the handle.

I responded with what most consider "good-advice"; which is, for the vast majority of folks, the A2 handle (however ya mount it) places the scope too high for practical use.

Whether ya realized it or not the A3 is a much better upper choice for scoped AR15s.

I was not rude, I was concise and to the point.

Your response was:


No, its already got the fixed carry handle so is it possible to mount a scope to it? Will it function ok?


As if I didn't read your original post, assuming I didn't know what an A2 upper is, I guess......, which tells me you were unable to apply coherently, my advice, properly toward your question.

Many folks over the years have gone the road you are headed toward, most have found A2 handle mounted scopes to be as noted and in-turn backed up and gone the A3 direction inorder to maximize the use of a scoped AR15.

Excuse me for trying to help ya NOT make mistakes others have made. The only assumption I made was that you were serious about wanting to use a scope on your rifle.




As to the other comments by someone who like yourself is also a non-persona, (ya can tell a non-persona by simply clicking the "User Info" button) he's got no dog in this hunt, other than like most of us has been caught on more than one occassion with his head up his own ass and happens to dislike my opinions or comments.

Click my UI button and you'll find a real person, you'll find I'm not hiding behind some 2-bit keyboard handle as most wanna-be gun enthusiast here are....... and btw this ain't no popularity contest here as I could care less, what non-folks like you happen to think of me.

You'll have to excuse my attitude, but I rarely apologize for using my head for sumthin besides a hat rack.

Mike  
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 8:59:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:13:22 AM EDT
the answer is yes
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:41:25 AM EDT
Wilson,

You have made it perfectly clear to me that you are not of good character, regardless of what you say. You were not only rude toward me but now you have had to stoop to the point of degrading yet another member of this forum. I don't know who or what you think you are but I consider you beneath me due to your negative attitude. Do me a favor and skip over any future post as I don't care to receive anymore of your nagativity. Its a shame that someone is so unhappy with their life that they have to try to be mean to others. I prefer to have no more dealings with you or your infinate wisdom. Your reply to my FIRST post was useless to me. ANd you second was just plan RUDEI hope that you may find happiness in your life!
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:43:14 AM EDT
thats a bunch to everyone that replied to this thread. It has really helped me make a decision.

Is is possible to be able to swap out the A2 to an A3 very easy? Any special tools?

Thanks,

Harley
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:50:25 AM EDT
Swapping A2 to A3 ain't gonna happen man, but you can get a detachable carry handle for an A3.

As these guys have told you, you can put a scope on your A2, but I'll let you in on a little secret....

blue loc-tite
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:51:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By harley72:
Hey guys, I am looking at buying this one AR and it has the fixed carry handle on top. Is it possible to mount a scope on one of these an if so, what does it take to do it?

Thanks



Simple question deserves a simple answer.

It IS definatly possible to mount a scope on a fixed carry handle. In fact this was the ONLY way to scope an AR-15 until around 1980 or so.

Unfortunatly it does require raising your head another inch and a half or so to use the scope, giving a different cheekweld, unless, as others have stated, you use a pad.



Lonny
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:59:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By harley72:
Hey guys, I am looking at buying this one AR and it has the fixed carry handle on top. Is it possible to mount a scope on one of these an if so, what does it take to do it?

Thanks



Yes.  Many AR specific scopes even come with the carry handle adapter or a version of the scope mounted directly to the adapter.  If it's mounted to the adapter the scope sets much lower.  I have this configuration and love it.  It gives me instant access to either iron sights or scope.  Also you don't get the front sight post ghost or shadow in the scope like can happen with a flat top.  Of course of you’re looking for ultimate accuracy then the flat top is better because the scope is closer to the barrel.

You price you listed sounds good.

Now scope up and go shot.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 10:06:32 AM EDT
I use a gooseneck mount on my A2 as I prefer the older A2 sights on a carbine.I use the mount because I like to have the red dot between the rear and front so I can co witnees the red dot.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 10:12:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 10:20:57 AM EDT by SelectFire]

Here is one for under 80 dollars.I have one and it's pretty good for the money.It's rubber armored,and made in China with a 1 year warranty by NC Star but it's pretty good quality.It has a lighted reticle (red or green) and you can find them around gunshows or I think Tapco.It's a good value,and yes I have a pretty high dollar Nikon on my vmatch A3 before anybody starts to criticize my Chinese choice.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 10:17:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 11:03:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By harley72:
Mr_Wilson,

I can tell that you are one of those people who like to talk down to others. That doesn't say alot about your character. You have never met me so I don't see how you feel that you have the knowledge to judge my comprehension skills. I asked a very clear question and instead of answering the question that I asked, you told me to look at at a differnt part all together. After I treied to make things more clear, you have to be rude. You can TRY and talk down to me all you like as I have nothing but sympothy for people like yourself. Thanks for nothing.

PS, I own many rifles and hand guns. Though I know that was just another rude meaningless statement from you.

I wish you the best.

Harley



And had I taken the time to review your posting history, I would not have wasted mine or your time.

Not only can you not spell, all that reading you've supposedly been doing appears to be going in one ear and out the other........

Incase anyone else is interested in your background :

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=219370
SRI[PPPED LOWER  

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=219155
CAN YOU BUY AR-15'S CHEAPER AT A GUNSHOW NEW OR USED?

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=219384
PWA COMMANDO

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=219251
A3 A$ UPPER WITH 20" BARREL  

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=26&t=246417
WTB COMPLETE LOWER  

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=219158
WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST COMPLETE 20" UPPER THAT I COULD GET FOR $400-450 AND MOUNT BUSHELL SCOPE  

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=218989
COMPLETE UPPER WITH BARREL  

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=219112
OLYMPIC ARMS PLINKER INFO  

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=218990
CONFUSED!!  

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=218972
PLEASE HELP!!!  


Nice to see the advice I gave ya up-front which you couldn't comprehend has been taken to heart btw.

Mike

ps - don't worry about me messin up your other threads, I prefer not to feed the trolls or posers.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 12:10:42 PM EDT
Having just looked through the above links, and read all the above thread, I fail to see where the guy has done anything, but be a guy new to AR-15s with some basic questions.

Something ALL of us have been at one time or another.

And it seems that of all these threads, YOU are the only one to climb on his case.

AFTER he asked a direct question, and you replied with an answer outside the parameters of what he asked, then took offense when he pointed that out.

To quote the late Warren Oates, in the movie "Stripes":

[Sgt Hulka]"Lighten up, Francis.."[/Sgt Hulka]





Lonny



Link Posted: 1/13/2005 12:26:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 12:31:41 PM EDT by harley72]
Thanks xcpd69 for that response.

Man is this guy a loser or what. He has to talk smack about my spelling, comprehension, ability to read and remember, maybe he is a very insecure person and gets his strength from trying to make other people appear lesser. All this looser does is downgrade people. It's obvious to me that he is a miserable person and prolly has no friends becuase he is so rude. You aren't going to hurt my feelings Mrs. wilson, oops, I meant Mr.

You can try and get my goat all you want but in reality all you are doing is showing everyone in the forum how much of an a$$ you really are. If being mean to people makes you feel good or powerful then you have some serios mental issues. If you want people to listen to you then you need to be kind to them otherwise they are going to think you are nothing more than a common jerk ( I do)
Mrs Wilson, oops did it again, everytime your mouth opens nothing but garbage falls out. Clearly I am not the only person on this board that feels this way. hanks
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 12:35:04 PM EDT
sure has been a lot of unnecessary drama on ARFcom the last few days
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 12:38:10 PM EDT


It IS definatly possible to mount a scope on a fixed carry handle. In fact this was the ONLY way to scope an AR-15 until around 1980 or so.

Unfortunatly it does require raising your head another inch and a half or so to use the scope, giving a different cheekweld, unless, as others have stated, you use a pad.



Lonny

The carry handle was not removed for manufacture by Colt in it's curent configuration as a flat top untill after 1990, via an agreement with ARMS. The current M1A2 in service still provides a platform for hundreds of thousands of A2 rifles with the non detachable carry handle, the Military do not move fast. The military do not use a cheek pad as a rule, just watch the news. The A3 flat top model with it's removable carry handle is still used to mount thousands of optics in the carry handle, even though they can mount to the receiver. Why, because the many mounts they have, work well in the carry handle and any transition in the military is always slow for many reasons to include logistics.
Jack
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 12:48:10 PM EDT
harley72

Check your e-mail.

I have a few mounts / scopes for sale that would work for you and save you some $$

Link Posted: 1/13/2005 3:54:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 3rdtk:

It IS definatly possible to mount a scope on a fixed carry handle. In fact this was the ONLY way to scope an AR-15 until around 1980 or so.

Unfortunatly it does require raising your head another inch and a half or so to use the scope, giving a different cheekweld, unless, as others have stated, you use a pad.



Lonny

The carry handle was not removed for manufacture by Colt in it's curent configuration as a flat top untill after 1990, via an agreement with ARMS. The current M1A2 in service still provides a platform for hundreds of thousands of A2 rifles with the non detachable carry handle, the Military do not move fast. The military do not use a cheek pad as a rule, just watch the news. The A3 flat top model with it's removable carry handle is still used to mount thousands of optics in the carry handle, even though they can mount to the receiver. Why, because the many mounts they have, work well in the carry handle and any transition in the military is always slow for many reasons to include logistics.
Jack



Oh well, I guess that proves my point. Long as I've been playing with these things, and I STILL can get it wrong.

Wasn't sure about the time frame, and took a SWAG at it. (Musta been thinking A-2s which came out in the 80's.)

Thanks for the clarification.



Lonny
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