Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 10/1/2004 10:25:29 PM EST
hipping
has anyone ever heard of this? or is this just a crock of shit?
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 10:30:13 PM EST
Crock of shit.

Bringing your personal weapon to combat is not allowed.

I have been told that it is technically legal under military law, but is always listed as illegal in "General order #1" on every deployment.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 10:36:00 PM EST
any more information on "general order #1?" link?
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 10:52:27 PM EST
Not true, gubment would never allow that unless they buy them but give them to gubment so it is really never yours, in other words crock of doodoo
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:03:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 11:03:46 PM EST by Combat_Jack]
I have heard of this ONLY in SOCOM. And rare even there, I am told.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:06:16 PM EST
so, basically you must use the weapon issued to you while you are shooting for and in the corps?

does anyone have any documentation behind this so i can just show him that and let that call his BS?
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:17:13 PM EST
Just remembered, in the old days, those who would be issued sidearms were sold the weapon, and sold it back when they left the service. IIRC, they could take it with them when they left. Don't quote me on this.

Military guys would be better able to find documentation on the weapons policy.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:30:23 PM EST
Some National Guard are not being issued sidearms, but are allowed to bring their own if they are the equavalant to the issue M9, ala Beretta 92fs.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:32:54 PM EST
What if you just wanted to bring a sidearm or other rifle, not to replace your issue weapon?
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:38:50 PM EST
join up and find out.

Link Posted: 10/2/2004 12:03:11 AM EST
I'm sure they'll let him bring an Airsoft gun.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 12:06:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By eWRXshun:
so, basically you must use the weapon issued to you while you are shooting for and in the corps?

does anyone have any documentation behind this so i can just show him that and let that call his BS?



anyone?
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 12:17:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By eWRXshun:

Originally Posted By eWRXshun:
so, basically you must use the weapon issued to you while you are shooting for and in the corps?

does anyone have any documentation behind this so i can just show him that and let that call his BS?



anyone?



Yes, you use your issued weapon. This is not a hard and fast rule, rather it is usually included in the General Orders for a deployed unit, usually General Order 1.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:53:13 AM EST
I'm not a marine but I can tell you it is not true. Here's why:

1. All militaries believe in the ability to use ANY soldiers weapon. If you pick up your buddies rifle in a pinch you need to be able to know how to use it.

2. Logistically you don't want multiple types of weapons, even if they are the same TYPE (ie. AR-15/M4). They're will still be issues between Colts, Bushy parts, and other things.

3. There are some extremely tight legal implications in General Order #1, ROE, Law of Land Warfare blah blah blah. The military does not like guys modifying their weapons or having privately owned weapons due to the above. Soldiers will be issued what they get and that's that.

Now, you may argue that that is not right, he should have the best he can get. That's another story. Almost all deployed soldiers are getting good stuff. Optics and lasers are flowing well even to support units. Training of such things is coming along as well. Point is the equipment they are getting is good. Maybe not the best you can buy on the market but it works, fits within budget constraints (think about the cost of supplying 500K weapons and then think about your current taxes!) and current soldiers of all branches possess weapons overmatch in every engagement to record in OIF and OEF. Our sights and training are far superior to the spray and pray tactics of the bad guy, particularly at night.

NOW, some soldiers and units are modifying their equipment within the letter of the law. Examples, adding M4 RIS systems, new sights, new grips. Nothing shocking just stuff to improve the ergonomics and effectiveness but it's still the same weapons. Another popular thought, DO NOT send your friend off with modified rounds or anything at all. That's a fast way to the jailhouse. The rounds you shoot are the rounds you are issued. Are they the best, maybe not but they are what is issued. This is no joke, I'm sure you probably don't understand the rationale but this is serious stuff in terms of legal implications.

The caveat to this is there certain very specialized units that are allowed to freely modify and select their weapons and fire different rounds. If you are asking this, your friend is not in one of these units.

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:17:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 8:18:51 AM EST by Stottman]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I have heard of this ONLY in SOCOM. And rare even there, I am told.



I will can BS on this one as well. SOCOM units can and do purchase commercial off the shelf weapons. For example, the MP5, or HK21E MG. There is no need for an individual team guy to use his own funds. Also, only the worst "gear queer" on a team would be willing to do this anyways. Team guys dont make that much more then the average soldier, and certainly not enough to afford some special firearm.

I have been told by older team guys that before the current M4A1, they would sometimes buy their own shorty uppers.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:20:35 AM EST
Forgot the mention-

General officers can purchase their sidearms (M9) when they retire. But that is the only situation that I know a soldier can purchase their issued weapon.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:56:23 AM EST
Stottman has it correct.
I supervise a Armament Repair Shop. While I was down there we had changed over some of our M16A2s' to M4s' in my Small Arms Section. We did it because it is hell of a lot easier to handle and react with a carbine while confined in a vehicle during convoys. When we deployed back to Germany we changed them back to M16A2s', as thats what they are on the Property Book. All parts were military except some optics which the user provided. I had mine set up with my own personal M68 Aimpoint and military Knights RAS with Fore grip.
MIKE
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 9:01:29 AM EST
I have friends that are carrying M16s that have new uppers dropped on them. I can see reconfiguring their weapons (carbine config etc..), but I don't see buyinng their own PRIMARY weapon. That isn't going to happen.

There are soliders running around in Iraq right now with uppers that I have built for them. Their commanders approved, and the weapons are runnning great. Emails from them saying thanks mean more to me than any other email I ever get.

I think your friend might have made comments that were taken out of context either by him, or by the person who relayed the info to him.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 9:31:04 AM EST
The only way a soldier or Marine is going to carry a weapon they paid for is if they manage to lose the one they were issued and have their pay docked for a few months to replace the lost equipment.

Very, very few units will allow anybody to bring their own sidearm and there are some units that get bitchy about what knife somebody carries.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 9:43:16 AM EST
Sttotman,
While they are able to purchase their own weapons through the military, those are still military weapons. Taking your own weapon on deployment is something else entirely.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 10:05:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 4:46:30 PM EST by _DR]
The US Marines are going to let him carry a semi-auto AR15 variant of his choice when everyone else has Selective fire A4s and M5s?

Or is he getting a full-auto Ares Shrike from "Jonesy" to bring with him?

He doesn't go by the nickname "Napalm113", have red hair, and have a stack of "airsoft" weapons, does he?

Based on that lie I would question whether he is even really in the Marines - maybe in his personal fantasy........

Link Posted: 10/2/2004 10:35:27 AM EST
only if your friend is a Swiss "marine"...
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 10:50:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By _DR:
The US Marines are going to let him carry a semi-auto AR15 variant of his choice when everyone else has Selective fire A4s and M5s?

Or is he getting a full-auto Ares Shrike from "Jonesy" to bring with him?

He doesn't go by the nickname "Napalm", have red hair, and have a stack of "airsoft" weapons, does he?





Hahahah!!
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 10:58:27 AM EST
I was looking for some of the pictures of our red-haired, Airsoft-toting "Marine" friend, but couln't find them. Anybody got one, so eWRXshun can make a positive ID?
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 11:10:10 AM EST
Hell if the service let you bring your own weapons that would be the most relevant example of the need for the right to keep and bear arms,having to report with a weapon ammo and equipment in common use at the time.But if they did that then it would probably be called the militia and not the US military,Federal military any way.I have heard though of seals and army special forces guys who carry a personal side arm,some of those guys are wilson combats best customers or maybe CIA types besides whos gonna question those guys as they could probably carry anything they want.My reasoning being you dont see any intelligence guys getting court marshalled for the prison episode so I take those guys do what they want.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:31:51 PM EST
Being a former marine, I believe this is just rumor. BUT..in looking at pics on the official USMC website from both OIF and OEF I have noticed that most of the Marines' rifles were different in subtle ways. Some had standard front sights, some had PRI flip down front sights. Some had Tijicon, some had Aimpoint. Slings were varied and most had RAS but some still had original handguards. What's the explanation for this lack of uniformity? When I was in, EVERYONE had the standard issue M16A2 rifle. What's the deal oh learned ones???
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:38:38 PM EST
There are several of us in my unit in the Army that are buying our own uppers to replace our M16A4 uppers with but an individual weapon? Well, let me tell you a story about that... Once upon a time..... NO!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:53:17 PM EST
Let me comment...NO! No personal weapons or ammunition!!! Violations subject to confiscation AND court martial.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:21:29 PM EST
I was previously allowed as well as many others to buy & take our own optics on deployment. I'v always been told it's a big no no with weapons.

And just wanted to point out that Marine Corps is a proper name which could have the M & C in caps
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:23:45 PM EST
also slings were replaced pretty often with the tacticals so that may look a little different if you toss an optic and new sling on one.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:38:24 PM EST
Doubt it.

The FOPA of 1986 and NFA of 1934 wouldn't allow it even if the military would.


CRC
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:37:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By _DR:
I was looking for some of the pictures of our red-haired, Airsoft-toting "Marine" friend, but couldn't find them. Anybody got one, so eWRXshun can make a positive ID?



I couldn't find the photos of Napalm113 either, but I did come across one of his "better" threads. Looks like he won't be posting for a while...

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=274390
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:45:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4Madness:

Originally Posted By _DR:
I was looking for some of the pictures of our red-haired, Airsoft-toting "Marine" friend, but couldn't find them. Anybody got one, so eWRXshun can make a positive ID?



I couldn't find the photos of Napalm113 either, but I did come across one of his "better" threads. Looks like he won't be posting for a while...

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=274390



Not under that handle anyway

Kudos to the Site Staff, they were on the ball with that one, didn't even get an IBTL in.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 5:44:16 PM EST
what about an enlisted man purchasing his own sidearm from a store before he even ships out to boot camp because he "needs" it? also a crock of shit?

note: he's only 18..........how would he even go about legally owning a handgun? can you have one if you are enlisted in the corps?
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 5:48:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By eWRXshun:
can you have one if you are enlisted in the corps?



That's a big no.. You can't even buy one in the exchange
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 5:56:06 PM EST
Maybe your buddy could bring his own grenade launcher.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:03:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By SFR:
What if you just wanted to bring a sidearm or other rifle, not to replace your issue weapon?



NO POWs (Personally Owned Weapons) are allowed in basic training, or on deployment to Iraq & surrounding...

SOCOM gets som eexceptions (they are 'Special' forces, after all, and thus get som e'Special' treatment), and some National Guard units that are short on weapons allow civvie M-9s...

Everyone is expected to fight with what they're issued, the only exception I've heard of is soldiers who were not issued rifles (or weapons at all) scavenging left-over local equipment in Iraq during the early post-invasion period...

This comes up every time some junior enlisted reservist posts asking if he can take a 1911 or some other .45/.40cal pistol to Iraq because he doesn't like 9mm or the Beretta...

The concept of 'issue weapons' exists for a very good reason...
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:05:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By The4thHorseman:
Being a former marine, I believe this is just rumor. BUT..in looking at pics on the official USMC website from both OIF and OEF I have noticed that most of the Marines' rifles were different in subtle ways. Some had standard front sights, some had PRI flip down front sights. Some had Tijicon, some had Aimpoint. Slings were varied and most had RAS but some still had original handguards. What's the explanation for this lack of uniformity? When I was in, EVERYONE had the standard issue M16A2 rifle. What's the deal oh learned ones???



The Marines are undergoing a transition to the M16A4 with the ACOG for an optic...

From what I've read, there will be 2 configurations issued: M16A4 and M16A4 MWS, with the MWS (modular weapons system) being the version with the RAS...

Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:08:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4Madness:

Originally Posted By _DR:
I was looking for some of the pictures of our red-haired, Airsoft-toting "Marine" friend, but couldn't find them. Anybody got one, so eWRXshun can make a positive ID?



I couldn't find the photos of Napalm113 either, but I did come across one of his "better" threads. Looks like he won't be posting for a while...

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=274390



Offensive, but not seriously advocating murder...

He was trying to make fun of the AWB...

But of course, he crossed the line & 'You are the weakest link, Goodbye!'
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:09:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 6:11:23 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By eWRXshun:
how would he even go about legally owning a handgun? can you have one if you are enlisted in the corps?



He may have one if Uncle Sam issues it to him, and he checks it out of the armory or whatever... On the bright side, that might create another Beretta fan...

But being military does not exempt you from US firearms posession laws (except if it takes you outside the US, but then only for as long as you're 'over there')...
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:17:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 6:34:18 PM EST by Hokie]
A US Marine's retort to such a ridiculous (and false) assumption should be "Fuck it, I don't need a goddam gun, I'll gut the motherfuckers with my KA-Bar!"

edited for spelling, thanks to the Arfcom grammer nazi
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:22:49 PM EST
/Looking at plaque/

KA-BAR actually
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:30:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By The4thHorseman:
Being a former marine, I believe this is just rumor. BUT..in looking at pics on the official USMC website from both OIF and OEF I have noticed that most of the Marines' rifles were different in subtle ways. Some had standard front sights, some had PRI flip down front sights. Some had Tijicon, some had Aimpoint. Slings were varied and most had RAS but some still had original handguards. What's the explanation for this lack of uniformity? When I was in, EVERYONE had the standard issue M16A2 rifle. What's the deal oh learned ones???


Changing the front sight is a big no-no even for the actual armorers. What you may be be seeing is some specialized configurations such as the SPR.

As for the rest, anybody who has been in the military knows how it can be. Some units dictate everything down to the exact position and contents of each pouch on the webgear while others will allow whatever you want.

Optics vary widely and since they can be easily changed out without permanent modification to the weapon it is something that many will buy with their own money. Some units also have discretionary funds that they use to buy optics, furniture or sometimes even custom uppers. In that case everybody in the unit will be uniform although they might be different from any other unit. Same goes for slings and in some units the basic furniture. One of the members of these boards is Army (Airborne I believe) and he and his unit replaced their furniture with tan items provided by CavArms when they were in the field in Afghanistan. The RAS is being issued to some units but most still have the basic handguards.

What individuals are allowed to do to their weapons varies from unit to unit. For example, some units may insist on no personal optics, some may allow any optic and some may allow only approved optics. And some allow it only in the field and require they be removed when on base.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 7:49:52 PM EST
I have personally deployed on orders that said 'Privately Owned Weapons allowed' (army)

I saw some weapons recently in Iraq that came from the US, and the Army did not own. Some people are in units that care about that stuff, and some aren't.

Choose your rate, choose your fate.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 7:57:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By eWRXshun:


someone i know is shipping out in the marine corps. from what i've gathered he either has the option to buy his own rifle or has to buy his own rifle?

has anyone ever heard of this? or is this just a crock of shit?



Give him a pistol and tell him to tell his DI that he brought his own when he gets to MCRD.


You stupid shit, how fucking dumb do you have to be to believe this bullshit?
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:01:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
You stupid shit, how fucking dumb do you have to be to believe this bullshit?



greaaat. now I'M the one being attacked for asking a question that i was unsure about.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:16:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By eWRXshun:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
You stupid shit, how fucking dumb do you have to be to believe this bullshit?



greaaat. now I'M the one being attacked for asking a question that i was unsure about.



Typical comeback from him, just overlook it.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:19:17 PM EST
Bottom line, its the damn US military! Its their job to supply you with weapons. At least in the past 10 years service members are NOT ALLOWED to bring personal firearms/ammunition! I'm sure someone has sneaked something in their sea bag but hey, its just the rest of your life you're talking about.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:23:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By long-rifle-tactical:

Originally Posted By eWRXshun:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
You stupid shit, how fucking dumb do you have to be to believe this bullshit?



greaaat. now I'M the one being attacked for asking a question that i was unsure about.



Typical comeback from him, just overlook it.



I should know better than to click on these threads. I'm just tired of stupid fucking questions.

As a semi-famous Marine I know once said, "There are no stupid questions, only stupid people."
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:28:59 PM EST
I know a guy who's son was fighting in Fallujah.... he wanted to send him a shotgun... but the Corps wouldn't let him.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 9:09:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
I should know better than to click on these threads. I'm just tired of stupid fucking questions.

As a semi-famous Marine I know once said, "There are no stupid questions, only stupid people."



then don't click the fucking thread title. for someone who acts like such a hardass, you sure as fuck bitch a lot.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top