crap, i don't have a picture of mine yet

I'd love to , but have no equipment to put pics on the internet.  Wife won't let me buy any further stuff for awhile, because we're trying to stash enough bucks for the downpayment on a house[:D].

Built mine on a Colt SP1 about 22 years ago. It's the only gun I owned at the time that I still have.  Plan to pass it on to my 6 year old some day[:D] Within the past year, I finally found a forward assist big hole upper to make an "E2" out of it; so it's still an all Colt piece.

Maybe one of these days we'll both be able to post pics.

Is this one?
[img]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kovba/arms-n-ammo/frankfordarsenal_xm177e2_556mm/xm177e2_002.jpg[/img]

XM177E2 kit. I'll post more photos when I get them loaded of the kit and various XM177E1,XM177E2's and GAU-5's

[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=7821[/img]

What lenght barrel does that have?

Flash on permanently ?

Does this count? I don't care for collapse stock.

[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid58/p8ebef1b96620f22e9dd71fb010b835fd/fc681adc.jpg[/img]

i will be sure to post pics of mine when the tax stamp comes in and i can assemble one. look at colt's pics and thats what you will see on my sp1 lower.

What is the difference between an M4 and a XM177?

Thank you

The XM177E2's correct name is the Colt CAR15 Commando Model Submachine Gun.  CAR15 is a designation of a group of weapons made by Colt, the CAR15 covers any of the Colt Carbines or SMGs.  It the XM177E1 had a 10" barrel with the long flash suppressor, the second version the XM177E2 had a 11.5" barrel and the long flash suppressor.  It was a very handy weapon in Vietnam (not all of the XM177E1/E2's had the long flash suppressor on, some just had the standard bird cage), my friend served with SF in Vietnam, he said that was a very good weapon but he didn't carry one just because he didn't like the M16A1 Rifles and he was the M60 gunner.  After the war the flash suppressor was deemed a sound suppressor by the BATF in the 1970's because it lowered the noise and flash of the weapon, and since Colt could no longer ship the Commando out with the flash suppressor (the Carter administration stopped the exportation of sound suppressors out of the US) it vertually killed the XM177E2.

Now thats where the M4 came in.  Because the military officals were not picking up commando's, Colt went back to the drawing board.  They found that a M16A1 or M16A2's lower coupled with a 14.5" barrel was just as liked as the XM177E2.  This extra length allowed the weapon to be more accurate and less noisy than the XM177E2.  The M4 Carbine was actually called the Abu Dhabi Carbine when it came into the market.  It had the gov't profile barrel with the step cut to allow the use of the grenade launcher, and a 4 position selector.  When it was finally adopted it had all the changes done to it to become the M4 or M4A1 Carbines that we know today.

Here's a pic of an M4a1 (detachable carry handle).  The M4 does not have a detachable carry handle.  
[img]http://world.guns.ru/assault/m4a1.jpg[/img]

Here'a a pic of my copy of the GAU/5A.  The only difference between this and the XM177E2 is that the GAU/5A lacks the forward assist.
[img]http://home.ix.netcom.com/~brownhen/_uimages/XM177E2RS2.jpg[/img]

Here's the real deal:
[img]http://home.ix.netcom.com/~brownhen/_uimages/coltcommandotwopics.jpg[/img]

Actually both the M4A1 and the M4 Carbines have the detachable carry handle.

Mb121, I didn't know this.  What's the difference between the M4 and the M4a1?

Dan

The XM177E2 was a Viet Nam era adaptation of the M16 series, that I guess you could say was the father (or maybe grandfather) of the current M4 series. If you go back to the kit picture above, you'll notice that it has an extra long flash suppressor (the original also had inner grooves that were supposed to quiet the weapon down a bit to full size M16 levels, but they've been ruled to be silencers, so the kit doesn't have them).

The E2 had a lighter weight barrel, 11 1/2 inches long, with the suppressor making it a total of 15 1/2 inches.  The M4 has a 14 1/2 inch barrel, so it's the same overall length w/the standard suppressor screwed on.

The sliding stock on the E2 had only two positions, open and closed. The M4 is adjustable to 4 (or is it 5) positions. The stock piece on the E2 is plastic coated aluminum. On the M4 it's molded plastic.

The E2 used the A1 type upper with the flip type two position rear sight. The M4 uses the A3 type upper with then ejection case deflector, and fully adjustable rear sight.  Front handguards on the E2 are the standard fully round version with a single inner heat shield.  The M4 uses the oval shaped HGs, with a two level inner liner.

Did I forget anything, guys[:D]?

The M4 is burst and the M4A1 full auto. Early M4s came with the normal upper A2 upper receiver, now most of them are flattops.

thanks for the info,
Dan

Also, because the M4A1 is full auto, the barrel has a heavy profile under the handguards, with a mount notch for the M203.
Picture from KevinB
[img]photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=3088[/img]

Did the original XM177E2 have a forward assist?

Yes the Army's version of the XM177E2 did have the forward assist.  The Air Force did not.  It went XM177 (Air Force) lacked the forward assist and had a 10 inch barrel; the XM177E1 (Army) vertually a XM177 except with a forward assist; the XM177E2 updated version with a forward assist and 11.5 inch barrel (Army), the Air Force's version of the XM177E2 did not have the forward assist.  The SEALs used both the XM177 and the XM177E1/E2's, they picked up whatever they could but liked the Air Force version more than the Army's.

Thank you very much!  When the ban expires, it will be the first thing I build.

Colt,
Your kit looks sharp!

Does this count? Its a XM177 FH, but its in 45ACP diameter. Please don't dog me about this scope...I like a scout scope better than a red dot. And no, it doesn't co-witness.
No batteries! [:)]
[img]http://personalpages.tds.net/~eflanagin/evilrifleedjectionside.JPG[/img]

Banish those short barrels!! A pox on the houses of those who own them!! Death to the owners of such irresponsible machines of death!!!! May you asr[pgoihreopgihrgeoahg

argqaeb -[ ag [=cbha
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'ladn]ia

Sorry fellas. That's the last time I let Sarah Brady borrow my machine. She's taking a butt stroke induced nap at the moment, so carry on...

[img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=13067&iGalleryUnq=115&iImageUnq=10868[/img]

You stroked her butt?You're a sick,sick little monkey.Did Jim watch?

Most M4A1s have the normal M4 profile barrel, it is my understanding that the HB profile barrel is in limited use at this time.

That is a true statement.  The heavy barrel has nothing to do with the full-auto capability.  They were just an after thought.  They have been making their way into the system for some time now, but are in limited use right now.

hey dan where did you get the pics of the real xm177? id like to see more..also ive never seen one marked commando..that typical? ones i have seen say xm177 on them...jason

Jason, I'm not sure if the "Commando" marking is typical on most of them?  My guess is that the markings had changed over time.  Maybe this is addressed in the book, "The Black Rifle," by R. Blake Stevens (I gotta get a copy)?  I received the pics from the creator of [url]http://feistyrooster.com/XM177/index.html[/url] These are the only pics I have.  

Dan

Dan thanx alot for the link! I look forward to the day the tax stamp arrives and i can finally put together my xm. this will be my first ar. what a way to start into the black rifles. i wish i hadnt sold the upper to my sp1 right away to help finance this project so id have something to shoot!

Here ya go.
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=19372&iGalleryUnq=574&iImageUnq=11176[/img]

CURIOUS!!

Are all XM177 Full Auto?

Here is mine. Used to have an A1 upper but changed it over to an A2. Liked the iron sights better.

[img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=34121&iGalleryUnq=861&iImageUnq=14159[/img]

PWA lower, DPMS Upper w/ 11.5" barrel, permanent flash suppressor, Bushnell Holo Sight II (co-witnessed), CQB sling, Hogue pistol grip. The short barrel gets everybody's attention at the range.

Edited to include- this is an old picture. I recently mounted Fobus M-33 carbine forearms and mounted the Holosight there. Got rid of the gooseneck mount. Makes a much better sight platform and the fatter Fobus guard look neater.

Went to the gunshow today, got a Bushy LW 16" barrel, slapped it on an old COLT M16 receiver that I had gunkoted a few years ago. It's an old one, or USAF, marked Colt, note lack of forward assist.

According to my wife's kitchen scale, this thing is 5.64 pounds empty !

Makes My M4 upper seem big.
[img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/049992.JPG[/img]