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Page AR-15 » AR Discussions
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 4/21/2007 8:59:06 PM EST
i goofed up good today at the fun show and bought 2 superior striped lowers that do not have forward assists on them.
how important is this in terms of the rifles functionality/reliability?
i have never built an ar before but i do have a RRA A3 which has the forward assist, however i have never needed to use it, and the one time i could have used it, i did not know the round was not fully in the chamber, so the hammer fel, but firing pin did not strike the primer. so the forward assist would not have helped me there.
did i mess up bad or are the forward assists over rated?
thanks
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 9:00:30 PM EST
[#1]
Um....Forward assists are on the upper.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 9:03:27 PM EST
[#2]
ok, i need to stop drinking...
thats what i get i suppose... building my first lower and having a little bacardi and coke...
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 9:03:59 PM EST
[#3]

Quoted:
Um....Forward assists are on the upper.


And, in my opinion, they're better to have and not need, than to need one and not have it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 9:06:38 PM EST
[#4]
good point,
however what exactly are they supposed to help with? once there is a FTF, isnt it a little late to be pushing the round to fully seat?
i shoot reloads only, and my only issues ais when cases slip past that are too long and do not allow the bolt to seat 100% of the way. by the time i know it happened, the trigger has been pulled as its hard to tell if the round is chambered all the way with a semi auto.

while i have the stage here..
on my lower, the selector switch has a hard time switching from safe to fire. also the trigger pin that gpoes through the lower and holds the trigger in place does not catch the hammer spring that would otherwise lock it in place....
i have no idea why it does not lock as i can see the hammer spring touching it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 9:18:18 PM EST
[#5]
The hammer pin should have a groove in the center to catch the J spring.  THe trigger pin should have a groove about 0.1" from each end to catch the trigger spring.

The forward assist allows for "silent" cocking.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 9:32:28 PM EST
[#6]

Quoted:
The hammer pin should have a groove in the center to catch the J spring.  THe trigger pin should have a groove about 0.1" from each end to catch the trigger spring.

The forward assist allows for "silent" cocking.


silent cocking?
how does one decock an ar?
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 9:34:16 PM EST
[#7]

Quoted:
The hammer pin should have a groove in the center to catch the J spring.  THe trigger pin should have a groove about 0.1" from each end to catch the trigger spring.

The forward assist allows for "silent" cocking.




you mean chambering
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 9:36:37 PM EST
[#8]
... From an engineering mass-properties point-of-view, a forward assist on an AR15 is a waste of weight if using modern ammo
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 9:42:31 PM EST
[#9]
yes, I mean chambering, or charging if you prefer that term.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 9:47:39 PM EST
[#10]
yes, I mean chambering, or charging if you prefer that term.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 10:01:07 PM EST
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Um....Forward assists are on the upper.


And, in my opinion, they're better to have and not need, than to need one and not have it.


+1, I can't find a good reason NOT to have F/A.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 10:01:57 PM EST
[#12]

Quoted:
... From an engineering mass-properties point-of-view, a forward assist on an AR15 is a waste of weight if using modern ammo


What is the weight difference of an upper with forward assist and an identical upper less forward assist?
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 10:34:52 PM EST
[#13]
2 ounces.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 11:05:52 PM EST
[#14]
The F/A is completely facking useless.


Until you need it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 11:25:22 PM EST
[#15]
The only time Ive ever used a Foward Assist is when a dumb Private has come to me, having assembled thier weapon without the buffer and spring, and cant get the BCG out of the tube because the tried to charge the weapon.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 11:53:56 PM EST
[#16]

Quoted:
The only time Ive ever used a Foward Assist is when a dumb Private has come to me, having assembled thier weapon without the buffer and spring, and cant get the BCG out of the tube because the tried to charge the weapon.


On rifles without the forward assist you can fix that problem by smacking the muzzle into the ground.
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 3:18:14 AM EST
[#17]

Quoted:
good point,
however what exactly are they supposed to help with? once there is a FTF, isnt it a little late to be pushing the round to fully seat?
i shoot reloads only, and my only issues ais when cases slip past that are too long and do not allow the bolt to seat 100% of the way. by the time i know it happened, the trigger has been pulled as its hard to tell if the round is chambered all the way with a semi auto.

while i have the stage here..
on my lower, the selector switch has a hard time switching from safe to fire.
also the trigger pin that gpoes through the lower and holds the trigger in place does not catch the hammer spring that would otherwise lock it in place....
i have no idea why it does not lock as i can see the hammer spring touching it.


Is your safety detent in upside down?
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 8:45:22 AM EST
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
good point,
however what exactly are they supposed to help with? once there is a FTF, isnt it a little late to be pushing the round to fully seat?
i shoot reloads only, and my only issues ais when cases slip past that are too long and do not allow the bolt to seat 100% of the way. by the time i know it happened, the trigger has been pulled as its hard to tell if the round is chambered all the way with a semi auto.

while i have the stage here..
on my lower, the selector switch has a hard time switching from safe to fire.
also the trigger pin that gpoes through the lower and holds the trigger in place does not catch the hammer spring that would otherwise lock it in place....
i have no idea why it does not lock as i can see the hammer spring touching it.


Is your safety detent in upside down?


the tutorial i used was pretty lacking in pictures or text...
but i have it so the pointy end goes into the grove which makes sense to me as to where it should be.
then there are 2 springs one goes inside the pistol grip, the other is a shorter spring and has a flared end which is what pushes against the saftey dent.
i think i may have the hammer spring in as when i dry fired it the click sounded a lot lighter than my RRA does
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 9:08:52 AM EST
[#19]
There's a couple of different schools of thought with the forward assist.

It's nice to have in case the bolt doesn't go all the way home, yes.  I've never used it on any of my rifles.

Some (including me) reason that if the bolt won't lock into place under it's own effort, it may be a bad idea trying to jam a cartridge into the chamber and the bolt into battery if it won't chamber/lock by itself.  Fortunately you can't have an out-of-battery fire with an AR15, but just food for thought.  If it won't go on it's own, why try hammering it in with the forward assist?
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 9:45:23 AM EST
[#20]
It just occurred to me that I've been shooting AR's since the early eighties and I've never had an occasion to use the forward assist outside of "playing" with it while cleaning the rifle....
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 10:06:01 AM EST
[#21]
I've never really had to use it, but like someone else said, better to have and not need...
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 10:10:52 AM EST
[#22]
It justs looks cool...
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 10:18:10 AM EST
[#23]
I've actually used it when trying to chamber rounds that went most of the way but not quite all the way. This happened not during normal firing but when initially inserting a magazine. I doubt you'd notice and try to do it in the middle of a magazine.

ETA: It is a waste of weight, overall.
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 10:51:38 AM EST
[#24]
I used mine twice. Both times it jammed a bad round into the chamber. Now I don't use it at all, ever.
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 11:29:31 AM EST
[#25]
Having owned 2 SP1's (that do not have FA's), I can tell you that an AR15 is just fine without one.
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 12:17:03 PM EST
[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The only time Ive ever used a Foward Assist is when a dumb Private has come to me, having assembled thier weapon without the buffer and spring, and cant get the BCG out of the tube because the tried to charge the weapon.


On rifles without the forward assist you can fix that problem by smacking the muzzle into the ground.


If it was issued to me, hell yeah... but not on my civi-bought models.  That might leave a scratch. lol
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 2:03:08 PM EST
[#27]
Before I joined the forums here I didn't even know what the Forward Assist was for, now that I know what it does I can see that it is useful.  
When I let people fire my AR they are usually used to bolt actions and forget to let the charger slam in place. Before I used to make them chamber a new round properly but now I can just tell them to hit the FA before firing.
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 2:18:06 PM EST
[#28]
I think the forward assist is a nice thing to have in a combat environment where some dirt may inhibit chambering.  For civilian use it is not necessary.  It will not force the bolt closed on oversize cases and do you really want to possibly scratch your chamber up when your life isn't on the line?
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 2:21:45 PM EST
[#29]
IMO, the only advantage is the ability to chamber the first round quietly. The weight is negligable and therefore there is no disadvantage; that i can determine.
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 2:26:41 PM EST
[#30]

Quoted:
Before I joined the forums here I didn't even know what the Forward Assist was for, now that I know what it does I can see that it is useful.  
When I let people fire my AR they are usually used to bolt actions and forget to let the charger slam in place. Before I used to make them chamber a new round properly but now I can just tell them to hit the FA before firing.


This apparently never happens to arfcomers.  Arfcomers also apperently never forget whether they have a round chambered and want to check - or never want to make sure that first round chambered.

Me, I use that dang thing every time I shoot.  I also routinely press check my pistols.  I am apparently a minority.

I've been told I could jam my finger to the actual bolt carrier and push it home - seems awful complicated for a task the FA does quite nicely.
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 3:49:48 PM EST
[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The only time Ive ever used a Foward Assist is when a dumb Private has come to me, having assembled thier weapon without the buffer and spring, and cant get the BCG out of the tube because the tried to charge the weapon.


On rifles without the forward assist you can fix that problem by smacking the muzzle into the ground.


!!!
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 3:54:59 PM EST
[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
The only time Ive ever used a Foward Assist is when a dumb Private has come to me, having assembled thier weapon without the buffer and spring, and cant get the BCG out of the tube because the tried to charge the weapon.


On rifles without the forward assist you can fix that problem by smacking the muzzle into the ground.


!!!


Best to do it on concrete or something and not in the mud!
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 3:56:06 PM EST
[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Before I joined the forums here I didn't even know what the Forward Assist was for, now that I know what it does I can see that it is useful.  
When I let people fire my AR they are usually used to bolt actions and forget to let the charger slam in place. Before I used to make them chamber a new round properly but now I can just tell them to hit the FA before firing.


This apparently never happens to arfcomers.  Arfcomers also apperently never forget whether they have a round chambered and want to check - or never want to make sure that first round chambered.

Me, I use that dang thing every time I shoot.  I also routinely press check my pistols.  I am apparently a minority.

I've been told I could jam my finger to the actual bolt carrier and push it home - seems awful complicated for a task the FA does quite nicely.


There is a way to press check without moving the bolt. It involved dropping the magazine. It also works in the dark. And yes, I press check everything...

A properly lubed gun will almost always go into battery no matter how slowly you cycle the action.
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 4:01:16 PM EST
[#34]
height=8
Quoted:
height=8
Quoted:
height=8
Quoted:
height=8
Quoted:
The only time Ive ever used a Foward Assist is when a dumb Private has come to me, having assembled thier weapon without the buffer and spring, and cant get the BCG out of the tube because the tried to charge the weapon.


On rifles without the forward assist you can fix that problem by smacking the muzzle into the ground.


!!!hock.gif


Best to do it on concrete or something and not in the mud!hat
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