when are they gonna be sold in the u.s.? i havent heard anything about it lately.
and how much are they gonna be?
my guess is theyre gonna be about 2000
any thoughts?

Originally Posted By docHOLLOWAY: any thoughts?

over-rated?

Originally Posted By MSTN: THEY'RE BREAKING WITH ALARMING REGULARITY HERE: WEAPONSTRAINING.COM WES GRANT MSTN.BIZ

any specifics?

The HK 416 has a flared magwell with Heckler & Koch, GmbH - Made In Germany stamped on it. And the fire control markings are the cool HK style ones. The upper has the HK free-floated modular system which allows you to mount accessories exactly where they are needed, and a proprietary short stroke gas-piston mounted on HK's proprietary gas block allows you to to mount a sling, regulate gas pressure for suppressed and regular fire and still utilize a folding front sight, which happen to be the cool HK diopter style sights. With the HK cold hammer forged barrel and proprietary HK collapsing stock, you can feel confident that you have HK logos all over the place and will be noticed. If thats not enough justification to buy the rifle, you haven't seen 15 year old HK 93's going for over $3500 dollars.

That being said, there are several other mfg's already selling gas piston uppers to the public. Some I can mention offhand are bushmaster, LWRC, POF, and ZM. I objectively think you can build a gas piston rifle better than what HK is offering as a package and still come under HK's market price. I'd still like to have one though, strangely enough.

Originally Posted By Powder_Burns: The HK 416 has a flared magwell with Heckler & Koch, GmbH - Made In Germany stamped on it. And the fire control markings are the cool HK style ones. The upper has the HK free-floated modular system which allows you to mount accessories exactly where they are needed, and a proprietary short stroke gas-piston mounted on HK's proprietary gas block allows you to to mount a sling, regulate gas pressure for suppressed and regular fire and still utilize a folding front sight, which happen to be the cool HK diopter style sights. With the HK cold hammer forged barrel and proprietary HK collapsing stock, you can feel confident that you have HK logos all over the place and will be noticed. If thats not enough justification to buy the rifle, you haven't seen 15 year old HK 93's going for over $3500 dollars. That being said, there are several other mfg's already selling gas piston uppers to the public. Some I can mention offhand are bushmaster, LWRC, POF, and ZM. I objectively think you can build a gas piston rifle better than what HK is offering as a package and still come under HK's market price. I'd still like to have one though, strangely enough.

You forgot the proprietary bolt carrier with the HK logo stamped on the ejection port side. And the proprietary heavy buffer with the red/orange dot.

Originally Posted By GhostRing: Originally Posted By docHOLLOWAY: any thoughts? over-rated?

hella over priced if they even get here

Originally Posted By NoAim: Originally Posted By Powder_Burns: The HK 416 has a flared magwell with Heckler & Koch, GmbH - Made In Germany stamped on it. And the fire control markings are the cool HK style ones. The upper has the HK free-floated modular system which allows you to mount accessories exactly where they are needed, and a proprietary short stroke gas-piston mounted on HK's proprietary gas block allows you to to mount a sling, regulate gas pressure for suppressed and regular fire and still utilize a folding front sight, which happen to be the cool HK diopter style sights. With the HK cold hammer forged barrel and proprietary HK collapsing stock, you can feel confident that you have HK logos all over the place and will be noticed. If thats not enough justification to buy the rifle, you haven't seen 15 year old HK 93's going for over $3500 dollars. That being said, there are several other mfg's already selling gas piston uppers to the public. Some I can mention offhand are bushmaster, LWRC, POF, and ZM. I objectively think you can build a gas piston rifle better than what HK is offering as a package and still come under HK's market price. I'd still like to have one though, strangely enough. You forgot the proprietary bolt carrier with the HK logo stamped on the ejection port side. And the proprietary heavy buffer with the red/orange dot.

... and the proprietary sight adjustment tool for the proprietary sight...

It's awesome.....period. If you've never handled/fired one...you don't have a leg to stand on.

Originally Posted By MajorAR: It's awesome.....period. If you've never handled/fired one...you don't have a leg to stand on.

Okay. I owned one once, and shot one on full auto. Do I win now?

Originally Posted By jtb0311: Originally Posted By NoAim: Originally Posted By Powder_Burns: The HK 416 has a flared magwell with Heckler & Koch, GmbH - Made In Germany stamped on it. And the fire control markings are the cool HK style ones. The upper has the HK free-floated modular system which allows you to mount accessories exactly where they are needed, and a proprietary short stroke gas-piston mounted on HK's proprietary gas block allows you to to mount a sling, regulate gas pressure for suppressed and regular fire and still utilize a folding front sight, which happen to be the cool HK diopter style sights. With the HK cold hammer forged barrel and proprietary HK collapsing stock, you can feel confident that you have HK logos all over the place and will be noticed. If thats not enough justification to buy the rifle, you haven't seen 15 year old HK 93's going for over $3500 dollars. That being said, there are several other mfg's already selling gas piston uppers to the public. Some I can mention offhand are bushmaster, LWRC, POF, and ZM. I objectively think you can build a gas piston rifle better than what HK is offering as a package and still come under HK's market price. I'd still like to have one though, strangely enough. You forgot the proprietary bolt carrier with the HK logo stamped on the ejection port side. And the proprietary heavy buffer with the red/orange dot. ... and the proprietary sight adjustment tool for the proprietary sight...

And the proprietary ammo and mags... Wait uh

In the end it's just an AR with a piston.

Originally Posted By NoAim: Originally Posted By MajorAR: It's awesome.....period. If you've never handled/fired one...you don't have a leg to stand on. Okay. I owned one once, and shot one on full auto. Do I win now?

Me too. I guess we both win.

Originally Posted By jtb0311: Originally Posted By NoAim: Originally Posted By Powder_Burns: The HK 416 has a flared magwell with Heckler & Koch, GmbH - Made In Germany stamped on it. And the fire control markings are the cool HK style ones. The upper has the HK free-floated modular system which allows you to mount accessories exactly where they are needed, and a proprietary short stroke gas-piston mounted on HK's proprietary gas block allows you to to mount a sling, regulate gas pressure for suppressed and regular fire and still utilize a folding front sight, which happen to be the cool HK diopter style sights. With the HK cold hammer forged barrel and proprietary HK collapsing stock, you can feel confident that you have HK logos all over the place and will be noticed. If thats not enough justification to buy the rifle, you haven't seen 15 year old HK 93's going for over $3500 dollars. That being said, there are several other mfg's already selling gas piston uppers to the public. Some I can mention offhand are bushmaster, LWRC, POF, and ZM. I objectively think you can build a gas piston rifle better than what HK is offering as a package and still come under HK's market price. I'd still like to have one though, strangely enough. You forgot the proprietary bolt carrier with the HK logo stamped on the ejection port side. And the proprietary heavy buffer with the red/orange dot. ... and the proprietary sight adjustment tool for the proprietary sight...

FYI...Propritary sight tool = Philips screw driver for windage and a pair of Needlenose pliers for elevation.

HK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

Originally Posted By bushflyr: HK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

What an awesome read, and I hate reading

HK is not charging $3500

Some dealers are charging $3500

Factory retail is not even half this.

It's your own fault if you pay $3500.

The price is high due to limited supply and our gun control laws.

These parts cannot be imported by themselves due the baning of parts kits importation in 2005. Thus, the only way to get them is by removing them from a post sample machinegun that was imported for LE use.

+1

Originally Posted By kstarr: Originally Posted By bushflyr: HK. Because you suck. And we hate you. What an awesome read, and I hate reading

The HK416 is the best gun EVER! It is called THE AWESOME. Lightning bolts of coolness fly from the gun and smite your enemies with Teutonic fury! However you can’t have one, because you’re a civilian, ergo, you suck. And HK hates you.

Originally Posted By MSTN: THEY'RE BREAKING WITH ALARMING REGULARITY HERE: WEAPONSTRAINING.COM WES GRANT MSTN.BIZ

Wes,

Do you have any more info on the 416 breakages that you've seen? Any particular part in question?

Thanks!

Originally Posted By AngeredKabar: Originally Posted By jtb0311: Originally Posted By NoAim: Originally Posted By Powder_Burns: The HK 416 has a flared magwell with Heckler & Koch, GmbH - Made In Germany stamped on it. And the fire control markings are the cool HK style ones. The upper has the HK free-floated modular system which allows you to mount accessories exactly where they are needed, and a proprietary short stroke gas-piston mounted on HK's proprietary gas block allows you to to mount a sling, regulate gas pressure for suppressed and regular fire and still utilize a folding front sight, which happen to be the cool HK diopter style sights. With the HK cold hammer forged barrel and proprietary HK collapsing stock, you can feel confident that you have HK logos all over the place and will be noticed. If thats not enough justification to buy the rifle, you haven't seen 15 year old HK 93's going for over $3500 dollars. That being said, there are several other mfg's already selling gas piston uppers to the public. Some I can mention offhand are bushmaster, LWRC, POF, and ZM. I objectively think you can build a gas piston rifle better than what HK is offering as a package and still come under HK's market price. I'd still like to have one though, strangely enough. You forgot the proprietary bolt carrier with the HK logo stamped on the ejection port side. And the proprietary heavy buffer with the red/orange dot. ... and the proprietary sight adjustment tool for the proprietary sight... And the proprietary ammo and mags... Wait uh In the end it's just an OVERPRICED AR with a piston.

My thought are this. All my ARs have done everything I have needed them too. As long as they keep it up (and I am sure they will), I am not concerned with the HK. For me, the HK is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist

Originally Posted By NoAim: Originally Posted By Powder_Burns: The HK 416 has a flared magwell with Heckler & Koch, GmbH - Made In Germany stamped on it. And the fire control markings are the cool HK style ones. The upper has the HK free-floated modular system which allows you to mount accessories exactly where they are needed, and a proprietary short stroke gas-piston mounted on HK's proprietary gas block allows you to to mount a sling, regulate gas pressure for suppressed and regular fire and still utilize a folding front sight, which happen to be the cool HK diopter style sights. With the HK cold hammer forged barrel and proprietary HK collapsing stock, you can feel confident that you have HK logos all over the place and will be noticed. If thats not enough justification to buy the rifle, you haven't seen 15 year old HK 93's going for over $3500 dollars. That being said, there are several other mfg's already selling gas piston uppers to the public. Some I can mention offhand are bushmaster, LWRC, POF, and ZM. I objectively think you can build a gas piston rifle better than what HK is offering as a package and still come under HK's market price. I'd still like to have one though, strangely enough. You forgot the proprietary bolt carrier with the HK logo stamped on the ejection port side. And the proprietary heavy buffer with the red/orange dot.

sure it is just not a simple laser engraving?

Originally Posted By MSTN: THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID. THE HK416 IS THE NEW JAM-OMATIC, ACCORDING TO THE FOLKS WORKING THERE WITH OUR TIER ONE ASSETS. LOTS OF MALFUNCTIONS, REGARDLESS OF MAGAZINE TYPES USED. THE GUYS WANT THEIR M4'S BACK, WHICH WHEN RUN SIDE BY SIDE PROVE MUCH MORE RELIABLE, AND NOT SO HEAVY. DOC GKR EMAILED REGARDING HK416 Q.C. ISSUES LAST YEAR. APPARENTLY, HK HAS GONE TO A DIFFERENT VENDOR FOR STEEL AND CUT OTHER CORNERS, RESULTING IN EARLY BOLT FAILURES, SUBSTANDARD RELIABILITY, POOR ACCURACY, AND BARRELS WEARING OUT PREMATURELY. EARLIER HK416'S DID NOT MANIFEST THESE ISSUES. UNFORTUNATELY, BY NOW THEY ARE ALL USED UP, SINCE THESE GUYS TRAIN SO HARD. WES

Man, those guys most definitely don't suck. And HK still hates them.

I really happen to like the DI system. It does have its own issues, but mostly it just works.

Originally Posted By MSTN: Originally Posted By Aimless: Originally Posted By MSTN: THEY'RE BREAKING WITH ALARMING REGULARITY HERE: WEAPONSTRAINING.COM WES GRANT MSTN.BIZ Shit THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID. THE HK416 IS THE NEW JAM-OMATIC, ACCORDING TO THE FOLKS WORKING THERE WITH OUR TIER ONE ASSETS. LOTS OF MALFUNCTIONS, REGARDLESS OF MAGAZINE TYPES USED. THE GUYS WANT THEIR M4'S BACK, WHICH WHEN RUN SIDE BY SIDE PROVE MUCH MORE RELIABLE, AND NOT SO HEAVY. DOC GKR EMAILED REGARDING HK416 Q.C. ISSUES LAST YEAR. APPARENTLY, HK HAS GONE TO A DIFFERENT VENDOR FOR STEEL AND CUT OTHER CORNERS, RESULTING IN EARLY BOLT FAILURES, SUBSTANDARD RELIABILITY, POOR ACCURACY, AND BARRELS WEARING OUT PREMATURELY. EARLIER HK416'S DID NOT MANIFEST THESE ISSUES. UNFORTUNATELY, BY NOW THEY ARE ALL USED UP, SINCE THESE GUYS TRAIN SO HARD. WES

Interesting...

but haven't you seen the video of that Kraut blowing one (an M4) up in a water test!!!!???!?!??!!!

Originally Posted By MajorAR: It's awesome.....period. If you've never handled/fired one...you don't have a leg to stand on.

What if we have, but still prefer a regular AR?

Originally Posted By MSTN: THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID. THE HK416 IS THE NEW JAM-OMATIC, ACCORDING TO THE FOLKS WORKING THERE WITH OUR TIER ONE ASSETS. LOTS OF MALFUNCTIONS, REGARDLESS OF MAGAZINE TYPES USED. THE GUYS WANT THEIR M4'S BACK, WHICH WHEN RUN SIDE BY SIDE PROVE MUCH MORE RELIABLE, AND NOT SO HEAVY. DOC GKR EMAILED REGARDING HK416 Q.C. ISSUES LAST YEAR. APPARENTLY, HK HAS GONE TO A DIFFERENT VENDOR FOR STEEL AND CUT OTHER CORNERS, RESULTING IN EARLY BOLT FAILURES, SUBSTANDARD RELIABILITY, POOR ACCURACY, AND BARRELS WEARING OUT PREMATURELY. EARLIER HK416'S DID NOT MANIFEST THESE ISSUES. UNFORTUNATELY, BY NOW THEY ARE ALL USED UP, SINCE THESE GUYS TRAIN SO HARD. WES

According to HKPro my upper was made in 2005 (the specific code stamped on it---you know the Germans and their factory codes!). Maybe mine made it in under the QC wire?

Originally Posted By MSTN: Originally Posted By Aimless: Originally Posted By MSTN: THEY'RE BREAKING WITH ALARMING REGULARITY HERE: WEAPONSTRAINING.COM WES GRANT MSTN.BIZ Shit THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID. THE HK416 IS THE NEW JAM-OMATIC, ACCORDING TO THE FOLKS WORKING THERE WITH OUR TIER ONE ASSETS. LOTS OF MALFUNCTIONS, REGARDLESS OF MAGAZINE TYPES USED. THE GUYS WANT THEIR M4'S BACK, WHICH WHEN RUN SIDE BY SIDE PROVE MUCH MORE RELIABLE, AND NOT SO HEAVY. DOC GKR EMAILED REGARDING HK416 Q.C. ISSUES LAST YEAR. APPARENTLY, HK HAS GONE TO A DIFFERENT VENDOR FOR STEEL AND CUT OTHER CORNERS, RESULTING IN EARLY BOLT FAILURES, SUBSTANDARD RELIABILITY, POOR ACCURACY, AND BARRELS WEARING OUT PREMATURELY. EARLIER HK416'S DID NOT MANIFEST THESE ISSUES. UNFORTUNATELY, BY NOW THEY ARE ALL USED UP, SINCE THESE GUYS TRAIN SO HARD. WES

Ok, since I actually have an H&K 416 Upper Receiver Kit (purchased 1.5 years ago) and I actually shoot it on a regular basis – see my pictures here:

www.lwrifles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=639

– and I have shot it now approximately 10,000 rounds (twice in a 1,000 round session as fast as I could load the 30-round magazines while maneuvering etc. in a high stress and low drag training course, full and semi automatic fire), some observations (at least as my H&K 416 Upper goes):

My positive comments…

It shoots fantastically – like a sewing machine (as you often hear – but it is true)

Accuracy – off the bench with good ammunition (Black Hills 77-gr Match) at 100-meters is 1.5 inches; with average GI ammunition (including Wolf) at 100-meters is 2.0 – 2.5 inches (depending in the ammunition). I note that the barrel twist in my H&K 416 is 1/7, so when test firing for accuracy I only use bullet weights of 63-grains or heaver!

Reliability – Is excellent with either the highly touted H&K 416 “High Reliability” steel magazines, my GI Aluminum magazines (rebuilt with Magpul followers and Wolff High-power spring or Specialized Armaments “Red Spring”), or Magpul’s “Pmag”. This is with all factory ammunition: Remington, Winchester, Black Hills, Igman, and Wolf! As of today, I have not had any parts break, etc.

Quality of Manufacture – Excellent!

My negative comments…

Too god damn expensive! As a long time (40 years) shooter and Class III collector, I am the first to say – if you want to play, you have to pay – but everything about the H&K 416 is just too expensive (parts, their magazines, spare parts, manuals, etc.) and too difficult to get! Yes, I pay it – but I do not like it at all!

Weight – Yes the H&K 416 is heavy, but the explanation is that the H&K 416 comes with the SOCOM heavy barrel (see my barrel pictures). This heavy barrel is very helpful in full-automatic fire, but is bear to carry. If I were to adopt the H&K 416 for general issue, I would demand that H&K deduce weight by using the now standard M4 barrel profile.

Compatibility - The H&K 416 does nothing that the LWRC gas-piston M4 type firearm does. Yes, I do have two LWRCs and often shoot my LWRCs side-by-side next to my H&K 416 in a range session.

Availability – too difficult and when available, because of the barrel lengths (10.4 and 14.5), sold only to those holding a existing Class III tax stamp.

Closing Comments…

Given all of the above, I would not suggest anyone buy an H&K 416 – too overrated, too expensive, too difficult to get, etc. I know that there is talk about H&K building a factory here in the US and they will be available in X time, etc., but I would wait and until I can examine and purchase one at my local gunshop, I would not place any bets.

If you want a good, reliable, and quality gas piston operated AR15 / M4 type firearm that performs just as good as the H&K 416, buy a LWRC! (Or buy a MSTN, or LMT, or SIG 556 [my personal choice])

Just my experiences and thoughts!