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Posted: 10/17/2004 1:50:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 1:51:00 AM EST by clubsoda22]
So, i looked at the charts of penetration, fragmentation, etc here and realized how much easier it is to pick ammo for my AK47.

now i'm building an AR style carbine, so, help me select .223. Here's my situation

I live in an apartment, the walls are not thin however, It's a quad with brick walls on 3 sides and a fire wall on the fourth. The only way a bullet is leaving the apartment is through a window. Interior walls aren't as bulletproof, but both bedrooms are in the rear at the furthest point from the single entry point.

It is an urban area, high crime. There was a drive-by last thursday at 3am less than 50 yards from my bedroom window which had me hitting the deck, glock in one hand, cellphone in the other. To give you an idea of how close it was, i'm right on the corner and the shooting was in the intersection. It's the first time it's appened to me, but i moved in 2 months ago. Shootings around here aren't an oddity, i know, i'm an EMS worker in the area and see it all the time. My neighbors have had home invasions.

I need a poison bullet up close that will also cut through car bodies. I'll probably never have to use it at more than 100 yards. Truthfully, that's why i keep the shotgun here and the AK47 at me parents house in the quiet suburbs.

I was thinking good old 55gr FMJ (XM193). Will fuck your day up out to 100 yards due to fragmentation, should penetrate a car door (i think?). cheap to practice with.

Opinions?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 1:53:28 AM EST
Unless you have the twist and bank account to shoot 70+gr bullets, M193 is the way to go.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:45:56 AM EST
From a fellow EMS worker. I would use #8 bird shot in a 12ga shotgun. Speaking from first hand experience. #8 bird shot will not over penetrate solid objects, but on soft tissue it will do a hole lot of damage. I have seen this first hand. If you have anymore questions IM me.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:41:47 AM EST
If you fire a bullet that cuts thru a car body which kills the person inside, you probably won't be an EMS worker anymore. Why would you want this?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:09:10 AM EST
If you are concerned about a combo antipersonnel-ap round you might try testing some SS109 or M855. Read up on the fragging potential of these rounds, and test the penetration yourself at old cars, steel, etc. These rounds have steel core; Check the frag charts stickied to the front of the board.

Honestly, for shooting through cars or trucks, or disabling them....I would prefer AP out of a semi-auto .308 or .30-06. Should you have a .50 BMG...then you are sitting pretty for the "shooting through cars" scenario!

Sheesh....your drive by experience would have me too thinking of those issues.

Now, if something did occurr....the trade-off is between having several special purpose guns ready or one "all purpose gun" ready. There is no such "all purpose" gun, IMHO.

At varying degree's of disposal for me are:

Glocks with HP ammo (close-in stuff for the house)
12 ga. with 00 buck (same)
AR-15 with M193 (should I need to venture outside my house or yard)
Garand rifle with several enblocs loaded with AP bullets (to shoot through auto doors or engine blocks)
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:39:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 11:40:28 AM EST by leakycow]
I'll second the notion that you shouldn't be focused on getting in a "shoot-out" with gangbangers in a car outside your apartment. If bullets are coming in from outside, just take cover inside somewhere and call 911. This isn't the old west where you're gonna hunker down next to your window to occasionally take a few pot shots at the bad guys outside. They're not interested in you (unless they're coming inside your apartment, in which case most of the suggestions outlined in this thread are sound--stick to a round that penetrates deeply while doing a lot of damage to tissue).
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 12:36:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 12:59:42 PM EST by clubsoda22]

Originally Posted By leakycow:
I'll second the notion that you shouldn't be focused on getting in a "shoot-out" with gangbangers in a car outside your apartment. If bullets are coming in from outside, just take cover inside somewhere and call 911.



Which is, incidentally, exactly what i did.

don't worry guys, i'm well versed on laws, deadly force, have trained with accredited and well know instructors and an certainly not a cowboy. Just because i want a round that will penetrate limited amounts of cover doesn't mean i'm looking to open up on a vehicle full of gangbangers from a second floor window.

I don't want to use a big heavy 77gr round because i figure i'll be practicing mainly with 55 gr, and therefore that's the weight my sights will be zeroed with. I'm not sure that 1 in 9 will even stabilize that round.

militiamedic, i use LE reduced power 00 buckshot. from tests i've seen and done on my own #8 is an ineffective man stopper. It does do a lot of superficial damage though and at less than 10 yards will ruin someones shit, but lacks the penetration to consistantly mangle organs.

I don't think i need SS109 as a car door doesn't exactly qualify as armor. You can go through both doors with 9mm FMJ. Though a couple mags full of green tips wouldn't hurt.

I load my guns for SHTF total breakdown of law and order, not just the most likely scenario. In the most likely scenario, it would probably be over before i even got to a long gun.


Originally Posted By Megistopoda:
At varying degree's of disposal for me are:

Glocks with HP ammo (close-in stuff for the house)
12 ga. with 00 buck (same)
AR-15 with M193 (should I need to venture outside my house or yard)
Garand rifle with several enblocs loaded with AP bullets (to shoot through auto doors or engine blocks)



That sounds like exactly what i have, minus the garand.
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