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Posted: 9/24/2005 4:43:34 PM EDT
didn't i read somewhere that someone came out with a upper that uses a piston so gas doesn't foul the chamber so bad?

was i dreaming? or does anyone one else remember reading about it?
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:09:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:16:14 PM EDT
P.O.F. www.pof-usa.com
L-W, www.leitner-wise.com

Makes the two best I know of. Another company is KKF and HK.
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 12:01:37 PM EDT
I have a L-W gas piston converted upper, and it's awesome!

JoeLad
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 5:44:17 AM EDT
yaaa..., L-W is the best in my opinion, i too have one & getting ready to send in another for the full treatment !!
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 5:48:28 AM EDT

L-W is the best in my opinion


Have you used a POF upper or an HK upper? Just want to know how you formed your opinion.

Link Posted: 10/12/2005 5:59:23 AM EDT
Hk doesn't sell to anyone but .mil and federal LE AGENCIES.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 5:59:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 6:41:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 7:17:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 7:36:07 AM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 7:35:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 7:40:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 7:44:49 AM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 7:48:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 7:49:03 AM EDT by _DR]
This certainly has never been discussed here before.

Link Posted: 10/12/2005 7:53:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 7:58:41 AM EDT by Ridge]

Originally Posted By nugentgl:

L-W is the best in my opinion


Have you used a POF upper or an HK upper? Just want to know how you formed your opinion.




You don't need to try them all to form an opinion (although it's nice to).

I've chosen L-W and feel it is the best for the following reasons:

It is the gas piston system that uses the most standard parts.

It is the lightest weight gas piston system.

The Rail system (ARM-R) for the L-W is the lightest, doesn't raise the sights, and is very robust.

Least important, I think it looks the coolest.

Also it is not contraband.

Others will obviously choose other systems for other reasons, you have to decide for yourself.

Oh and regarding the dirty "chamber". I agree that the chamber itself wouldn't be soiled by the gas system except maybe after many many rounds, but everthing else in that upper sure gets dirty as a result of the impingment system.

Imagine this, your cleaning sesson after a range trip involves, wiping down the bolt, wiping down the gas system (if you want to), swabbing the bore and chamber. I was taking the bolt apart for awhile but it's so clean in there I won't bother for a while.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 7:57:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
This certainly has never been discussed here before.




Hey, this is AR15.com we have to discuss in detail all the same subjects at least three times a day.

The thing that I can't decide is what lower should I put on my LW upper COLT or BUSHMASTER!
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 8:06:03 AM EDT
just rember to clean your gas system..........

my buddy has a m1a scout......

put about 800 rounds through it then

let it sit for a few months...........

net time we went shooting it would not cycle....

gas system was frozen solid.........

same will happen with ak/sks though not as easily
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 8:18:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ops144:
just rember to clean your gas system..........

my buddy has a m1a scout......

put about 800 rounds through it then

let it sit for a few months...........

net time we went shooting it would not cycle....

gas system was frozen solid.........

same will happen with ak/sks though not as easily



How could somebody go a few months without shooting?
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 8:36:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ridge:

Originally Posted By ops144:
just rember to clean your gas system..........

my buddy has a m1a scout......

put about 800 rounds through it then

let it sit for a few months...........

net time we went shooting it would not cycle....

gas system was frozen solid.........

same will happen with ak/sks though not as easily



How could somebody go a few months without shooting?



It's called "matrimony".
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 9:52:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 10:04:33 AM EDT by 48thHighlander]
I think it has gone much past the "luck" and "quest" stage and it has nothing to do with any one company or their products. It is about extending service or improving on an already good system. Discussion is fine. Passive remarks, derrogatory IM's about individuals to potential customers is sorta creepy. Take it or leave it. I would never think to run down your product as I know nothing about them other than what you say and I am just not that kind of person to cast off your hard work with a sideline opinion. That opinion would be worthless. As stated this doesn't require any further discussion as it is has been bashed ad nauseum
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 10:37:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 12:32:09 PM EDT by KnobCreek]

Originally Posted By Ridge:

Originally Posted By _DR:
This certainly has never been discussed here before.




Hey, this is AR15.com we have to discuss in detail all the same subjects at least three times a day.

The thing that I can't decide is what lower should I put on my LW upper COLT or BUSHMASTER!



Thanks for the segway.....yeah, gas piston upper thread is about to be hijacked


Colt - pay extra for the name, nothing more
Bushmaster's Great

There's only one true AR - COLT
Bushmaster - master of bushes, not ARs

Bushmaster, like Piston ARs, aren't authentic, so use them together and create a real bastard gun
Don't dirty my Colt with no stinkin 'piston system

Colt's the best and pistons are the best - marry them together for sure and you'll have the bestestest



Link Posted: 10/12/2005 11:15:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KnobCreek:

Originally Posted By Ridge:

Originally Posted By _DR:
This certainly has never been discussed here before.




Hey, this is AR15.com we have to discuss in detail all the same subjects at least three times a day.

The thing that I can't decide is what lower should I put on my LW upper COLT or BUSHMASTER!



Thanks for the segway.....yeah, gas piston upper thread is about to be hijacked


Colt - pay extra for the name, nothing more
Bushmaster's Great

There's only one true AR - COLT
Bushmaster - master of bushes, not ARs

Bushmaster, like Piston ARs, aren't authentic, so use them together and create a real bastard gun
Don't dirty my Colt with no piston system

Colt's the best and pistons are the best - marry them together for sure and you'll have the bestestest






I was just being facetious. But thanks for the tips!
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 11:24:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 11:25:25 AM EDT by KnobCreek]

Originally Posted By Ridge:

Originally Posted By KnobCreek:

Originally Posted By Ridge:

Originally Posted By _DR:
This certainly has never been discussed here before.




Hey, this is AR15.com we have to discuss in detail all the same subjects at least three times a day.

The thing that I can't decide is what lower should I put on my LW upper COLT or BUSHMASTER!



Thanks for the segway.....yeah, gas piston upper thread is about to be hijacked


Colt - pay extra for the name, nothing more
Bushmaster's Great

There's only one true AR - COLT
Bushmaster - master of bushes, not ARs

Bushmaster, like Piston ARs, aren't authentic, so use them together and create a real bastard gun
Don't dirty my Colt with no piston system

Colt's the best and pistons are the best - marry them together for sure and you'll have the bestestest






I was just being facetious. But thanks for the tips!



I know you were and you're welcome to my facetious response. I just tried to sum up some 35000 pages of Colt vs Other ARFCOM comments in a few sentences.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 11:42:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 11:52:50 AM EDT by Ridge]

Originally Posted By KnobCreek:

Originally Posted By Ridge:

Originally Posted By KnobCreek:

Originally Posted By Ridge:

Originally Posted By _DR:
This certainly has never been discussed here before.




Hey, this is AR15.com we have to discuss in detail all the same subjects at least three times a day.

The thing that I can't decide is what lower should I put on my LW upper COLT or BUSHMASTER!



Thanks for the segway.....yeah, gas piston upper thread is about to be hijacked


Colt - pay extra for the name, nothing more
Bushmaster's Great

There's only one true AR - COLT
Bushmaster - master of bushes, not ARs

Bushmaster, like Piston ARs, aren't authentic, so use them together and create a real bastard gun
Don't dirty my Colt with no piston system

Colt's the best and pistons are the best - marry them together for sure and you'll have the bestestest






I was just being facetious. But thanks for the tips!



I know you were and you're welcome to my facetious response. I just tried to sum up some 35000 pages of Colt vs Other ARFCOM comments in a few sentences.



You're a bad bad man.

Are you sure you weren't trying to combine a piston/ impingment, bushmaster/colt flame fest into one huge thread. That could get ugly.

Oh ya, do you think I should use my LW upper with colt lower for home defense, and I was also thinking about hunting deer with it!
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 11:48:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 11:52:17 AM EDT by _DR]
Honestly - sometimes I wish the powers that be would just give the non-paying members the same search and archive search capabilities as paying members. just so we would not see the same stuff pop up again and again as if it had never been already covered in excruciating detail and epic length as this topic has. I have never seen so many people at each others throats as I have with the subject of gas piston AR15 uppers.

I cannot even imagine that someone could post something that has not already been covered at least dozen times on this topic.

Link Posted: 10/12/2005 12:18:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ridge:

Originally Posted By KnobCreek:

Originally Posted By Ridge:

Originally Posted By KnobCreek:

Originally Posted By Ridge:

Originally Posted By _DR:
This certainly has never been discussed here before.




Hey, this is AR15.com we have to discuss in detail all the same subjects at least three times a day.

The thing that I can't decide is what lower should I put on my LW upper COLT or BUSHMASTER!



Thanks for the segway.....yeah, gas piston upper thread is about to be hijacked


Colt - pay extra for the name, nothing more
Bushmaster's Great

There's only one true AR - COLT
Bushmaster - master of bushes, not ARs

Bushmaster, like Piston ARs, aren't authentic, so use them together and create a real bastard gun
Don't dirty my Colt with no piston system

Colt's the best and pistons are the best - marry them together for sure and you'll have the bestestest






I was just being facetious. But thanks for the tips!



I know you were and you're welcome to my facetious response. I just tried to sum up some 35000 pages of Colt vs Other ARFCOM comments in a few sentences.



You're a bad bad man.

Are you sure you weren't trying to combine a piston/ impingment, bushmaster/colt flame fest into one huge thread. That could get ugly.

Oh ya, do you think I should use my LW upper with colt lower for home defense, and I was also thinking about hunting deer with it!



No way...hunting deer with a Colt lower. Colt lowers were made for anti-personnel shooting and won't work for hunting. Bushmaster lowers are WAY better for hunting 'cause they're more versatile.

Now, 5.56 for hunting deer is completely unethical UNLESS you use the Piston upper. Why you ask? 'Cause the extra velocity from a piston system will make the 5.56 round way, WAY more fragmentatious and/or WAY more "impactful"

So, for Huntin' - Bushy and Piston
For home defense - Colt and Piston

Either way, it's the Piston. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 12:26:18 PM EDT
IBTL
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 12:32:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 12:43:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 12:44:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 12:47:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 5:14:05 AM EDT
that's cool !! drop in...., drop out !!
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 5:38:30 AM EDT
I also thought Leitner-wise had the uppers available in different barrel lengths, but their site doesn't show everything that I thought I saw there awhile back.

What industry dealer is selling L-W uppers???

Do L-W uppers work well with cans???
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 5:42:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By edwin247:
I also thought Leitner-wise had the uppers available in different barrel lengths, but their site doesn't show everything that I thought I saw there awhile back.

What industry dealer is selling L-W uppers???

Do L-W uppers work well with cans???




1. The website is NOT the place to go for detailed info. Try the INDUSTRY section, Leitner-Wise.
2. I believe the offering for NOW is 10/11 inch, 14.5 and 16 inch barrels
3. Industry Dealers - None that I know of. Deal direct with LW
4. Cans - Yes. Go to Industry section as I believe this topic has been discussed. If not, post a question.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 5:53:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
IBTL



me 2.......

this is easily the most locked topic in tech forums
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 12:47:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2005 12:50:07 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By LeitnerWise:

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
What would be REALLY nice? A drop-in piston conversion. I'd be more apt to try one then.



Ares Defense



Ares Defense - The Vaporware company!

How many years now have they been promising to deliver the "Shrike"?
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 1:05:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
This certainly has never been discussed here before.




+1 Definitely cutting edge...
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 5:13:29 PM EDT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't POF and DSA the same product?
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 5:29:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2005 5:30:09 PM EDT by chris157c]
I think the only benefit the piston system has, is the fact I can unload 3 betas in full auto and it won't melt like the gas tubes do. I can find no other use for it, and being military, i rather have the M249SAW than a converted m16 with a beta c-mag.

Any other benefits are small and of no concern to me. I'll let the civilians worry about how clean the inside of their AR's are... Mine stays clean from... get this... cleaning it. Amazing... and it only costs me a little CLP, which doesn't cost as much as a new piston system, even in the long run, bacause I'm going to have to clean other parts of the weapon anyway. buying cleaning supplies is a must, regardless of what super duper system you have.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 6:04:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Snaps:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't POF and DSA the same product?



You are correct. The DSA is a POF upper on a DSA lower.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 6:04:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Snaps:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't POF and DSA the same product?




Yes it is. For some reason, DSA seems stuck on 1/9 barrels on most of theirt products.

DSA seems to be the most expensive way to get a POF, although they do build quality AR's.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 6:31:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chris157c:
I think the only benefit the piston system has, is the fact I can unload 3 betas in full auto and it won't melt like the gas tubes do. I can find no other use for it, and being military, i rather have the M249SAW than a converted m16 with a beta c-mag.

Any other benefits are small and of no concern to me. I'll let the civilians worry about how clean the inside of their AR's are... Mine stays clean from... get this... cleaning it. Amazing... and it only costs me a little CLP, which doesn't cost as much as a new piston system, even in the long run, bacause I'm going to have to clean other parts of the weapon anyway. buying cleaning supplies is a must, regardless of what super duper system you have.



You do not see the lack of gas in the face with a suppressor as a benefit?
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 6:49:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 7:28:29 PM EDT
Ill wait and see what the Marines do.I have heard L&W made some piston M4s for the Marines yet I have not heard any official reports on its performance from the sand box.To L&W any word back from the Marines on how the conversion is serving them?
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 12:14:47 AM EDT
It aint serving them....yet. Marcorsyscom found out about it and required to review the weapon prior to any deployment and put a stop to it. Lots of politics. They have since said everything was O-KEE DO Kee.

If I told you what I know about the USMC and 2 LW products, I would be in big doo doo. It is very exciting.

A unit of the 5th SFG have some on the way (got permission to post that in those vague terms) pictures of which can be found on the LW forum. They will be posting an eval and pics in the box on the LW forum. Now another SFG has ordered them in a similar config. No permission from them yet to post the group. Doc Gary Roberts has one in 6.8 he is presenting to the AF at their request. AF EOD has had one and are evaluating it and are extremely happy.

Malaysian Government is evaluating it for rifle replacement programs, and SF weapons.

Multiple LE agencies eval as well.

LW is building a tits to nutz production facility 2005 with big time capability.

I excuse those who say it is a gimmick. You don't need the facts to pull the trigger and instantly become a convert. It is uncanny to say the least. If you don't want one or don't need one, don't buy one. Don't run it down until you do shoot one.

Link Posted: 10/14/2005 4:16:10 AM EDT

I excuse those who say it is a gimmick. You don't need the facts to pull the trigger and instantly become a convert. It is uncanny to say the least. If you don't want one or don't need one, don't buy one. Don't run it down until you do shoot one.


"I excuse those..." i WON'T !!

i just put another 400 rounds thru my L-W converted upper two days ago, that makes about 2,000 rnds & no cleaning yet !! the only dirt/fouling i find is under the handguard near the piston vent, with a chorme lined barrel and G/P i see no need for cleaning...! just a wipe dowm with an oily rag and back to the safe !!
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 5:10:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Buttplate:

I excuse those who say it is a gimmick. You don't need the facts to pull the trigger and instantly become a convert. It is uncanny to say the least. If you don't want one or don't need one, don't buy one. Don't run it down until you do shoot one.


"I excuse those..." i WON'T !!

i just put another 400 rounds thru my L-W converted upper two days ago, that makes about 2,000 rnds & no cleaning yet !! the only dirt/fouling i find is under the handguard near the piston vent, with a chorme lined barrel and G/P i see no need for cleaning...! just a wipe dowm with an oily rag and back to the safe !!



Yup...it's a wonder to look at the bolt and carrier after a few thousand rounds. I'm a bit more fastidious as I do run a patch down the barrel. Thus, I spend about 2 more minutes than you cleaning the gun before it goes in the safe.
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 5:15:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 8:00:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LeitnerWise:

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
What would be REALLY nice? A drop-in piston conversion. I'd be more apt to try one then.



Ares Defense



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