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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/14/2003 11:14:32 PM EDT
I'm finishing an 80% lower and I am wondering if I could mount a preban upper on it. Since it has no ###s is it considered a preban or postban, if it's post how could someone prove it? Just a few questions I didn't have the answers too, I'm not condoning anything illegal.

Thanks Jerad
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 12:15:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2003 12:18:27 AM EDT by dsr611]
From the AR-15 Primer link on the front page of ARFCOM: [url]http://www.ar15.com/content/docs/primer/[/url]
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT A LOWER RECEIVER WITH SERIAL NUMBER WHICH DENOTES MANUFACTURING PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 1994 DOES NOT NECESSARILY PERMIT YOU TO LEGALLY BUILD A RIFLE WITH PRE-BAN FEATURES! A LOWER RECEIVER MUST HAVE BEEN ASSEMBLED INTO A COMPLETE RIFLE PRIOR TO THE SEPTEMBER 1994 BAN AND THE MANUFACTURER MUST BE ABLE TO DOCUMENT THAT ASSEMBLY TO THE BATF IN ORDER TO QUALIFY AS A PRE-BAN LOWER RECEIVER!)
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I don't believe that putting a pre-ban upper on an finished 80% lower would be legal. The lower had to be assembled into a complete rifle before September 1994 in order for it to be considered a pre-ban rifle.
Since it has no ###s is it considered a preban or postban, if it's post how could someone prove it?
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There would be no way to prove that it was post ban (other than you stating at the beginning of your post that you are finishing an 80% lower), just as there would be no way you could prove that it was pre-ban. Put a postban lower on it for now, and wait for the AWB to sunset.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 7:42:42 AM EDT
If you finish off a lower and fit it to your upper doesnt it need a serial number on it? Hows this with the law?
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:52:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2003 9:53:17 AM EDT by Dano523]
Originally Posted By thebloke: If you finish off a lower and fit it to your upper doesnt it need a serial number on it? Hows this with the law?
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No, BATF allows you to build your own firearms for personal use. The key factor is that you cannot sell the rifle (lower), nor build up any NFA items without the paperwork in place. If some time down the road, you decide that you want to sell the rifle (lower), you would need to then register it and pay the tax on the build. Also, you can do this one or twice, but any more and you would be required to get a FFL C-2.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 12:53:42 PM EDT
No, BATF allows you to build your own firearms for personal use.
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First, the ATFE does not "allow" anything. They don't create the law, only enforce it. The ATFE has no power to decide what is "allowable" by law. They do issue "opinions" as to how they would interpret the law as applying to certain situations, and many uninformed people believe this has the force of law. It doesn't, though it can still ruin your day if it's your "situation." Further, the ATFE merely acknowledges - as it should - the right of a citizen to do this as long as he stays within the law. The law (not the ATFE) requires manufacturers to put their name and address on the receiver, and a unique serial number. The ATF recommends that you do something to make the receiver identifiable in the case of theft, etc., but there is no legal requirement for an individual to do so.
The key factor is that you cannot sell the rifle (lower), nor build up any NFA items without the paperwork in place.
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You can sell any legally owned peronal property to anyone who is legal to own it, even a firearm you made yourself, and you can even make a profit on it. The real key is that for it to be a regulated sale, you must be "in the business" of making/selling firearms. If the determination is made that whatever you've been doing is being "in the business of" without a license, then the ATF has jurisdiction and you are royally screwed because your actions will then be viewed in light of the laws governing FFLs rather than private citizens, so understand the law and keep it in mind if you do this.
If some time down the road, you decide that you want to sell the rifle (lower), you would need to then register it and pay the tax on the build.
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Not strictly true, see above. For the same reason, only licensees pay the "making" tax. Only FFLs are regulated by the ATF, though certain legislation such as the GCA of 1968 does criminalize certain individual behavior. Ever wonder why gun shops don't buy lowers and uppers on the secondary market and make their own guns to sell? Although the lower is the regulated part, adding an upper would be "making" a firearm, and for this an FFL would also have to be a licensed manufacturer. Private citizens are not subject to this, so you can walk into a gun shop, buy an upper and a lower and put it together yourself legally, right there in the shop. You have now legally made your own firearm. Go figure - seems silly, but that's the way the law is written.
Also, you can do this one or twice, but any more and you would be required to get a FFL C-2.
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True, but this is subject to interpretation. If, over time, you had made several guns yourself and had to sell them to pay debts, for example, or if you simply got tired of AR-15s and sold them so you could start playing with 1911s, you're still not "in the businesss" or "deriving substantial income" (that's the wording used in the legislation) from selling guns. However, if you regularly sold one or two a year (whether you made them yourself or not), whether or not you showed a profit, this might be construed by some enforcement entity as grounds for requiring an FFL, in which case you're busted and will have to defend your actions in court. (Same concept applies to buying/selling used cars, by the way, it's not just guns. You occasionally hear about someone getting busted for having an "unlicensed auto dealership" and then they get in trouble with the IRS and state governments.)
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