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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/28/2005 2:16:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2005 9:22:56 AM EDT by Ekie]
Colt's placed the AR-15 into production in late 1959. These had the ArmaLite devleoped brown fiberglass furniture. Apparantly after making a couple hundred of these Colt's began painting the brown furniture green. This is my project, not quite done, but figured I would share pics of where I am at on it:









Note early bolt catch. This part had to be beefed up once ball powder was used. Also note the waffle ArmaLite/Colt's steel mag. Colt's literature says they are stainless steel, but they did have a rust problem. These were dropped from production early on. Aluminum 20 round mags date back as far as 1960.



Early rifles did not have the drain hole in the buttstock screw, also no trap door.



Early swivels were not rubber coated.



Swivels were held on with a roll pin rather then riveted. Also note the triangle marking on barrel, indicating the barrel had been proof fired. This is a early barrel and there are no markings indicating that it had been magnetic particle inspected.



Close up of left handguard, someone painted it black.



Right handguard has a hole in it. You can see the fiberglass strands. These handguards are extremely brittle
.


Detail of the original Colt charging handle, cool looking but impractical. Also note the shelf at the rear of the receiver where the handle locks under. It is squared off rather then the later rounded shape.



Top of bolt/carrier group, note that the cam pin, and carrier key screws are not parked.



Right side of bolt/carrier group, no forward assist cuts.



Left side of bolt/carrier group, note solid firing pin retainer.



Close up of carrier key, 60's carrier keys were staked with one square stake per screw (some stackes were round, but done in the same spots).



Detail of bolt/carrier group, note heavy firing pin, solid retainer, and parked cam pin.



Detail of bolt with P proof mark. Earlist bolts were simple etched with a P for Proof fired. Later chrome bolts were marked MP for Magnetic particle inspected, Proof fired. These early chrome bolts were not shot peened and made of a lower grade steel then later production. No buffer was used with the extractor spring, instead the spring was longer then current springs.



Edgewater recoil spring guide. Was replaced by a buffer after the switch to ball powder.



Detail of old style flash hider/grenade launcher.



The right and arrow for windage was engraved on early rifles. Earliest rifles had the engraving on the rear sight drum rather then the receiver. Later this was made part of the forging. Also note no forge codes on the carry handle.



This is a early mag button, it has more "circles" cut into it. This part probably dates from 1964, and there is a earlier version I don't have.



Castings were used for the front sight base in the early 60's. You can see the round mold marks in this picture.



Another view of the FSB, notice the squared contours.



The arrow and up were raised and part of the casting.



First pattern port door. Looks kinda like an A2 port door huh?




First pattern gas tube on top, modern on bottom. Gas tube was switched to stainless steel construction, and the bend was repositioned (probably to gain room for HBAR barrels that were experimental at the time).
Link Posted: 5/28/2005 2:22:41 PM EDT
She's a 'beaut Ekie!

I Love your build threads!
Link Posted: 5/28/2005 2:25:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
She's a 'beaut Ekie!

I Love your build threads!



What he said. Looks sweet!
Link Posted: 5/28/2005 2:44:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2005 2:47:27 PM EDT by garr]
Eike , I purchased an old dusty AR Light weight barrel today,It has a Duckbill Flashhider mounted on it with a very thin lock washer behind it (About half as thick as any AR lock washer I have seen), It is unmarked except for A number 14 stamped on the bottom of the barrel in between the front sight base mounts. Is this one of the very early 1/14 twist AR barrels I have been searching for (For over 20 years!!!) ? Is there any way for me to verify the twist?
Also the FSB appears to be sand cast not forged.
Link Posted: 5/28/2005 2:46:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garr:
Eike , I purchased an old dusty AR Light weight barrel today,It has a Duckbill Flashhider mounted on it with a very thin lock washer behind it (About half as thick as any AR lock washer I have seen), It is unmarked except for A number 14 stamped on the bottom of the barrel in between the front sight base mounts. Is this what I think it is? Is there any way for me to verify the twist?



Sounds like a Hesse barrel, I will give you $50 for it.
Link Posted: 5/28/2005 2:48:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By garr:
Eike , I purchased an old dusty AR Light weight barrel today,It has a Duckbill Flashhider mounted on it with a very thin lock washer behind it (About half as thick as any AR lock washer I have seen), It is unmarked except for A number 14 stamped on the bottom of the barrel in between the front sight base mounts. Is this what I think it is? Is there any way for me to verify the twist?



Sounds like a Hesse barrel, I will give you $50 for it.



You never know, Is there any way to verify the twist?
Link Posted: 5/28/2005 2:57:36 PM EDT
Great Post and Pic's
Nice Rifle
Thanks for sharing
Link Posted: 5/28/2005 2:59:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2005 3:01:14 PM EDT by Ekie]

Originally Posted By garr:

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By garr:
Eike , I purchased an old dusty AR Light weight barrel today,It has a Duckbill Flashhider mounted on it with a very thin lock washer behind it (About half as thick as any AR lock washer I have seen), It is unmarked except for A number 14 stamped on the bottom of the barrel in between the front sight base mounts. Is this what I think it is? Is there any way for me to verify the twist?



Sounds like a Hesse barrel, I will give you $50 for it.



You never know, Is there any way to verify the twist?



I was just messing with you. Not sure what that is. Which FSB does it have:





You can put a tight patch on a jag and run it thru the bore to see how many times the rod turns.
Link Posted: 5/28/2005 3:01:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By garr:

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By garr:
Eike , I purchased an old dusty AR Light weight barrel today,It has a Duckbill Flashhider mounted on it with a very thin lock washer behind it (About half as thick as any AR lock washer I have seen), It is unmarked except for A number 14 stamped on the bottom of the barrel in between the front sight base mounts. Is this what I think it is? Is there any way for me to verify the twist?



Sounds like a Hesse barrel, I will give you $50 for it.



You never know, Is there any way to verify the twist?



I was just messing with you. Not sure what that is. Does it have a FSB like this, or one like pictured above:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/aa29.jpg

You can put a tight patch on a jag and run it thru the bore to see how many times the rod turns.



Similar but a little rougher finish.
I will try the rod & patch.
Thanks
Link Posted: 5/28/2005 3:02:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2005 3:19:11 PM EDT by Ekie]

Originally Posted By garr:

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By garr:

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By garr:
Eike , I purchased an old dusty AR Light weight barrel today,It has a Duckbill Flashhider mounted on it with a very thin lock washer behind it (About half as thick as any AR lock washer I have seen), It is unmarked except for A number 14 stamped on the bottom of the barrel in between the front sight base mounts. Is this what I think it is? Is there any way for me to verify the twist?



Sounds like a Hesse barrel, I will give you $50 for it.



You never know, Is there any way to verify the twist?



I was just messing with you. Not sure what that is. Does it have a FSB like this, or one like pictured above:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/aa29.jpg

You can put a tight patch on a jag and run it thru the bore to see how many times the rod turns.



Similar but a little rougher finish.
I will try the rod & patch.
Thanks



Not the early cast? Maybe it is one of those thousand experimental 1/14 twist barrels that I was telling you about?
Link Posted: 5/29/2005 8:06:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
She's a 'beaut Ekie!

I Love your build threads!




Originally Posted By steve-oh:
What he said. Looks sweet!




Originally Posted By Rollyman:
Great Post and Pic's
Nice Rifle
Thanks for sharing



Thanks guys, my pleasure
Link Posted: 5/29/2005 8:17:26 AM EDT
that really does look great, good work!
Link Posted: 5/29/2005 8:31:05 AM EDT
looks good.
Link Posted: 5/29/2005 8:34:32 AM EDT
Thanks, just added some gas tube pics to the first post.

Garr, here are some FSB pics, you can get a good idea of the vintage of a barrel by what type of FSB it has:

Early:


Mid:


Late:
Link Posted: 5/29/2005 9:18:12 AM EDT
Ekie,

I've seen those grenade launcher prongs before, but how do they work.

Thanks!

BTW, beautiful build.
Link Posted: 5/29/2005 9:19:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By I-LUV-AR15s:
Ekie,

I've seen those grenade launcher prongs before, but how do they work.

Thanks!

BTW, beautiful build.



I don't know, but it looks cool huh?
Link Posted: 5/29/2005 3:35:59 PM EDT
Well, what can one say. That was an absolutly great write up and a very fine looking rifle. I love these posts.
Good Luck,
KILO OUT
Link Posted: 5/29/2005 4:09:32 PM EDT
Where did you find the grenade retaining spring?!?! THAT is one great-and minute-detail!
Link Posted: 5/29/2005 5:08:12 PM EDT
Where did you find the grenade retaining spring?!?! THAT is one great-and minute-detail!


GH: Sarco Inc in N.J. has the grenade retainer clip(spring) for about $5.00 brand new. I bought one, along with an M-16/M-16A1 armorer's combo wrench last month. I posted these 2 parts availability in another thread not too long ago that was called Retro ARs or something like that. The only way a clip like this could work is the grenade has a ledge or lip pointing inward and the back end, and the grenade had to be moved slightly forward after passing over the "fingers"(which point backwards) of this spring clip, to engage and hold at the interior lip/ledge of the grenade. I think this clip was to prevent the front- heavy charge from wobbling at the back end. Can't be sure because I'm no expert on muzzle discharged grenades. In my day we had the thumper(M-79). An entirely different system.

Garr: I will try to check in "TBR" later tonight but I think you finally got what you were looking for.
I think the 1/14 Win. barrels were only marked with 14 on them and nothing else. An early cast FSB would be another indicator.

Ekie: I like your new earlier AR upper, great early FSB, and steel gas tube. Good finds. As far as the ejection port cover, the Colt's SPII upper I used for my Mod 01 build has the same exact port cover as yours. So that only reinforces that Colt's used up as many serviceable old parts as they could over the years rather than trash them or sell them to retailers for resale, etc. Same as the Soviets did with their AK parts as made in Izhevsk and Tula.

I have kept my SP upper on this project as a trade-off. I use a Colt's SP I lower mfg in '74 and it's large hole, of course. When I use a large hole SP I upper I can use a Bushmaster or KNC large hole ball bearing detent front pivot pin instead of the dual screw head configuration we are all familiar with . The end of this pins sticks out of the left side of the lower about 1/4" and that takes a little getting used to. It also means I forsaked a real M-16/early Colt's small hole upper that has no mfg and forge marks ie: C & H, but to me the virtue of not having to unscrew the upper from the lower was more important. Short of having the cash to buy a genuine AR-15 Mod 01, compromises have to be made with some parts when making a repro model.



Link Posted: 5/29/2005 8:34:48 PM EDT
Absolutely awesome Ekie!!!!

Where did you find that pivot pin??


____________________________________
The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you are already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you will be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function, without mercy, without compassion, without remorse.
Link Posted: 5/29/2005 9:57:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ColtShorty:

Where did you find that pivot pin??




You know, I forgot where I got it. It is a standard easy to find aftermarket part that allows you to use a M16 upper on a big hole AR-15 lower without the big honking screw heads.


Originally Posted By Malysh:

Garr: I will try to check in "TBR" later tonight but I think you finally got what you were looking for.
I think the 1/14 Win. barrels were only marked with 14 on them and nothing else. An early cast FSB would be another indicator.




According to TBR II the Winchester 1/14 barrels lacked any markings what so ever. TBR covers a experiment program (I think 1966) where a batch of 1/14 barrels were made. I think those were marked "14". I would think those would have a mid production FSB?


Originally Posted By Malysh:

Ekie: I like your new earlier AR upper, great early FSB, and steel gas tube. Good finds.




Yeah, that upper was a great find, got it here:

gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=31708958


Originally Posted By Malysh:

As far as the ejection port cover, the Colt's SPII upper I used for my Mod 01 build has the same exact port cover as yours. So that only reinforces that Colt's used up as many serviceable old parts as they could over the years rather than trash them or sell them to retailers for resale, etc. Same as the Soviets did with their AK parts as made in Izhevsk and Tula.




Your cover is a "A2" late cover. They do look similar:

Early:


Mid:


Late



Originally Posted By Malysh:

I have kept my SP upper on this project as a trade-off. I use a Colt's SP I lower mfg in '74 and it's large hole, of course. When I use a large hole SP I upper I can use a Bushmaster or KNC large hole ball bearing detent front pivot pin instead of the dual screw head configuration we are all familiar with . The end of this pins sticks out of the left side of the lower about 1/4" and that takes a little getting used to. It also means I forsaked a real M-16/early Colt's small hole upper that has no mfg and forge marks ie: C & H, but to me the virtue of not having to unscrew the upper from the lower was more important. Short of having the cash to buy a genuine AR-15 Mod 01, compromises have to be made with some parts when making a repro model.




I considered doing the same, but I have a friend with a registered FA lower, and he lets me shoot my uppers on his lower.
Link Posted: 5/30/2005 6:02:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2005 11:35:55 AM EDT by Malysh]
Nope, the ejec door that came on mine was mid production. It was from a 1984 SPII mod 6400.
A rifle that really wasn't a Sporter I or a Sporter II.

The late pattern ejec cover to me, only superficially resembles the early one in that they both have square plates on the cover to hit the lower receiver front pivot pin boss(fence) . It is also thicker at the bottom where it rests on the fence, where the first pattern is uniformly thin.
The mid production type has a rectangular shaped pad.

I threw you a curve, by accident. I had forgotten I bought some extra covers at a local gun show and found an early one for this rifle.

Thanks for checking TBR for me when I was too lazy to get up and look in it. There's no other reason a 14 would be stamped on the barrel unless it's for the rate of twist. Of course the 14 could stand for anything but that is quite a coincidence. I have seen later thin barrels that were stamped 12 and this seems to fortify that theory.

Garr, I hope you are going to try to verify the r.o.t. on that barrel! Very interesting.

Remember that waffle mag I just got with no S on the follower? It is mentioned by Nobody, but there is is with a follower with a bullet shape distinct and unlike any of the subsequent patterns, including the next model circa 1960 with the standard aluminum body but still having the ArmaLite AR-15/Colt's PA FA Mfg Co follower.

Yet it has no S at the front of the follower. All descriptions for this mag mention that S. There's always an exception.

That's why I think Garr's barrel has a chance of being a 1/14 Win. It would make it one of only about 18,000 made.

Link Posted: 5/30/2005 6:57:13 AM EDT
I have never seen a Winchester 1/14 twist barrel, so can't confirm they are devoid of markings. But, they do have the early cast FSB. The early FSB is very distinctive and garr would know if he had one. The test lot of barrels made up in 1966 are marked 14, and should have the mid production FSB, so that sounds more like what garr has.

The S is on the follower, not the floor plate.
Link Posted: 5/30/2005 7:17:36 AM EDT
Looks Great
Link Posted: 5/30/2005 11:28:43 AM EDT
Taggage!!!!!!

Looks great Ekie..............

I've been on an FAL kick lately...........and this "sucks me right back in" to retro AR's!
Link Posted: 5/30/2005 11:41:30 AM EDT
Very Nice Ekie.
I'm always impressed with the attention to detail in your Builds.
How long did it take to piece this one together?

Where did you get the old fiberglass HGs?


Link Posted: 5/31/2005 6:02:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/31/2005 6:02:37 PM EDT by Ekie]

Originally Posted By Villafuego:
Taggage!!!!!!

Looks great Ekie..............

I've been on an FAL kick lately...........and this "sucks me right back in" to retro AR's!



FAL's are fun too. Got a Belgian kit I need to get together, one of these days.


Originally Posted By IronBalaclava:
Very Nice Ekie.
I'm always impressed with the attention to detail in your Builds.
How long did it take to piece this one together?

Where did you get the old fiberglass HGs?





Thanks, been working on this one for about a year and a half. Was supposed to be a XM16E1. In the mean time also managed to piece together the XM16E1, just waiting on ASA to get the lowers done. Gotta feeling there will be quite a few XM16E1 project posts once the lowers are out.

I had to ask around to get the handguards, and am still trying to get a better set.
Link Posted: 6/15/2005 5:32:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2005 5:33:50 PM EDT by garr]
Just to this BTT this thread,
Also The barrel I have marked with a 14 looks like a 1/12 twist, I run a marked at 12inch rod with a tight patch down the bore & I get a little more than 1 turn in 12 inches.
I sent it over to a buddy of mine to do a little better test to be sure.
WHy is it marked with a "14"? Who knows!
Link Posted: 6/21/2005 12:51:01 AM EDT
Ekie BEAUTIFUL rifle sweet!!!
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 2:28:40 PM EDT
Great rifle!
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 4:48:38 PM EDT
I have one word for your build...


WOW
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:14:10 AM EDT
Thanks guys, too bad that barrel was not a 1/14 garr, and I have no idea why it is marked 14.
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