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Posted: 10/1/2004 7:04:27 AM EST
I'm finally buying my first AR in a month or two hopefully so I'm shopping around. A store in MI just told me that a 16" barrel with a collapsable stock is illegal because the overall length will be under 30 inches. I assume this guy is wrong because Bushmaster lists 16" carbines with collapasable stocks for sale. Another dealer (separate store) said that it is legal but I would have to register the gun as a pistol. Has anyone ever heard of this? Where are these guys getting this from?

Its getting to the point where I might have to have my old gun shop in SC (I just moved to MI) ship me an AR to get what I want (Bushy 16" carbine, A3, collapsable stock and flash hider).
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 7:10:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 7:11:02 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By OneMoreMag:
I'm finally buying my first AR in a month or two hopefully so I'm shopping around. A store in MI just told me that a 16" barrel with a collapsable stock is illegal because the overall length will be under 30 inches. I assume this guy is wrong because Bushmaster lists 16" carbines with collapasable stocks for sale. Another dealer (separate store) said that it is legal but I would have to register the gun as a pistol. Has anyone ever heard of this? Where are these guys getting this from?

Its getting to the point where I might have to have my old gun shop in SC (I just moved to MI) ship me an AR to get what I want (Bushy 16" carbine, A3, collapsable stock and flash hider).



He is RIGHT in YOUR STATE

MI considered that a SBR even though the Feds don't.

And MI measures with the stock CLOSED, not open...

Your old shop could not do that, either, as (a) the gun would be illegal in MI, and (b) they would have to ship it to a local dealer....
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 7:22:26 AM EST
That is not true.

In Michigan, a long gun under 30" in length with the stock collapsed or folded is a considered a pistol by some absurd logic. Federal law is 26".

I have a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 that is a long gun by federal law, but I had to register it as a pistol because it is 29" or so in length (just slightly less than 30").

A 16" barreled AR even with a collapsable CAR or M4 stock, is 30 inches in length. Therefore, it is a rifle by federal AND Michigan law. Not a SBR, that deals with barrel length on a shoulder-stocked weapon, not on overall length.

If you were to use an example of an AK type rifle, and put a side or underfolding stock, then it becomes less than 30" length overall with the stock folded. So you would have to register it as a pistol.

AR15s are fine with standard collapsable stocks. I do not own a stubby stock or some of the other collapsable stocks (LMT, VLTOR, etc), but I suspect they are not shorter than a standard CAR or M4 collapsable stock.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 7:28:56 AM EST
Thanks DaveA and silverc...so correct me if I am wrong since I am new to MI and its more liberal gun laws. If I go to a gun shop or show this weekend can I purchase on site a Bushy 16" carbine with collapsable stock and receive the weapon the same day legally? I assume the dealers I spoke with were either correct (as to the weapon being considered a pistol) and simply didn't know the true length of the weapon or were wrong about the AR being illegal if it was under 30" in total length.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 7:33:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 7:34:35 AM EST by silverc]
Well, if in fact the AR platform with a 16" barrel and a fully collapsed stock had an overall length of less than 30", then yes, the dealer would be correct in requiring it be sold as a pistol.

However, since the length is clearly more than 30"... Both of my 16" ARs are 30 5/8" long with the stock fully collapsed. One has an M4 stock and the other has a CAR stock.

So yes, you would be legal with the rifle you mentioned. If the dealer is too stupid to know the law, find someone else to buy from who is more knowledgable.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:24:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 9:27:38 AM EST by monkeyman]
I have several CAR type AR15s and all are over 30" even without the flash hider and the stock collapsed. Just take a tape measure with you in case you run into an idiot.

And yes, with a rifle you simply pays your money, fill out the 4473 yellow form if bought from a dealer, they will do a NICs check and you are good to go.

In regards to a Kel-Tec Sub 2000, I believe the addition of a butt pad or muzzle comp/flash hider puts it into the rifle zone. I wish Kel-Tec would make the frickin rifle a 3/4" longer so we would have to screw around with registering them as pistols.

In regards to an AK with a folding stock. An AK with an original underfolder is under 26" long when folded so it is considered a SBR in MI. The same gun with most side folders are over 26" but under 30" when folded must be registered as a pistol. An AK with a flash hider/compensator that makes it over 26" or 30" when folded is which ever as based on OAL.

BTW, the "UZI clause" is a classic in MI. A basic UZI in MI with a folding stock is considered an SBR. The same gun with an 18" bbl is a pistol. The same gun with a fixed stock and the original 16" bbl is considered a rifle.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:32:00 AM EST
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