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Posted: 10/31/2003 12:00:26 PM EDT
wondering which one would be the best choice. any feedback on the crane copy and what type of warrenty. i already hve a a2 vltor and was going to get the club foot carbine model when i seen a ad for the crane copy in the ee. the copy is listed as being built better is this true?
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 12:42:31 PM EDT
Get the Vltor. It's 1/5 the price of the Crane, probably more durable (based on what I've read here) and is backed by a warrenty. The Crane will not have a warrenty because they were never produced for the civilan market. Believe me, you'll be very impressed with the Vltor and it's feel and functionality. I'm getting another one shortly
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 2:00:20 PM EDT
Just wondering if you looked into getting a Magpul stock? The Magpul may be a little pricey but it is the best stock out there right now IMHO. Plus Richard is one kick ass guy.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 3:12:16 PM EDT
The cheapest Crane copy I've seen is from here : [url]http://www.uncompany.com/pageproduct.asp?subcatid=52[/url] US$72.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 3:32:09 PM EDT
Airsoft? Get the VLTOR!
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 3:56:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hycheng: The cheapest Crane copy I've seen is from here : [url]http://www.uncompany.com/pageproduct.asp?subcatid=52[/url] US$72.
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An airsoft copy
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 4:20:49 PM EDT
i guess the one on the ee boards is made for airsoft but the seller says the copy is better. what is the vltor made of.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 5:00:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 5:44:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2003 5:48:11 PM EDT by AKM]
It's pretty SAD when a foreign "knockoff", intended for a toy is actually better quality then the original! With the price Crane was charging (IMO $500 is fucking ridiculous), why on Earth didn’t they at least mold it from sturdy polymer??? UNFREAKING BELIEVABLE! (And what’s even MORE unbelievable is that folks still desire it (the original or the toy)???
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 6:03:56 PM EDT
I may be wrong but I don't think Crane set the price on these. In fact, I don't think they intended for them to make it out to the civilian market at all. I think supply and demand set the price.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 7:48:20 PM EDT
So the crane copies on the e&e are airsoft?
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 7:53:23 PM EDT
When are thease company's ever going to learn that we don't have a problem paying a premium price for parts that are worth it. GG&G and ARMS knows this.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 8:35:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mcad: i guess the one on the ee boards is made for airsoft but the seller says the copy is better. [i]what is the vltor made of[/i].
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I wouldn't be worried about the plastic that much, I would worried more about the lock-pin. The ones I see on the Airsoft rifles are made of pot metal. Make sure you don't put that stock on a shotgun or a .308 Win, because you may get an eyeful of a scope. ls
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 11:09:18 PM EDT
The Vltor is far more functional at any rate. Adjustable cheek pads, removable, built in QD swivel mounts, now available with butt pad, clubfoot option, etc... I sold my Crane and replaced it with Vltor with no regrets. Would have use a Magpul, but they are just not for me.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 11:11:16 PM EDT
ohdeargawd [shock]
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 11:39:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2003 11:41:29 PM EDT by hycheng]
Originally Posted By Redbone: So the crane copies on the e&e are airsoft?
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As near as I know there is no Crane copies other than for airsoft. And one of these days I will get a fake one to compare with the real one I have to see how they match up.
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 4:08:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2003 6:39:21 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
I say go with the Vltor or even the Magpul but skip the Crane and especially the Airsoft copies. The real Crane stocks cost a buttload more than the Vltor, if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me, but IIRC you can't even access the battaries without removing the stock from the buffer tube....[:|]
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 5:38:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2003 6:36:39 PM EDT by MSTN]
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 8:38:16 AM EDT
In his article from last month's SWAT magazine comparing stocks, Pat Rogers states that currently there is no legal way to obtain a Crane stock. I know that the majority of the ones out there are copies, but some people are claiming to have authentic stocks. Has something changed? Personally, I haven't seen the attraction to the design. I prefer the Magpul and think that the modular design of the VLTOR would be more useful.
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 10:15:52 AM EDT
From what I know LMT is the only licensed mfg that is actually producing the Crane stock for the military and commercial sales, I was told they should see them for sale in December of this year, no set price yet, but I do know they will not sell for what the ones that made it out of Crane sold for,and plus there were some improvements made that Crane signed off on!
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 10:40:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2003 10:41:35 AM EDT by hycheng]
Originally Posted By gadget1: From what I know LMT is the only licensed mfg that is actually producing the Crane stock for the military and commercial sales, I was told they should see them for sale in December of this year, no set price yet, but I do know they will not sell for what the ones that made it out of Crane sold for,and plus there were some improvements made that Crane signed off on!
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Crane didn't make the stock, ARMS did. They were in the process of releasing the stock and limited samples were sold until Crane all the sudden decided to cash in and asked for a huge royalty. ARMS decided there is not enough profit with the price they can charge after the royalty and back out of commercial release. Those who were lucky enough to bought the first few samples are now asking for the ridiculous price. I know both ARMS and Mounting Solution Plus were stocking the Crane stock for a very short period of time.
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 10:44:40 AM EDT
The LMT will be out before March, but that's the only guarantee I'd give. From what I've heard, we're supposed to see the first ship out by the end of December, but I kinda doubt it. -Cap'n
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 1:46:11 PM EDT
I am planning on buying a telestock for my M16 soon. I have pretty much narrowed it down to the Vltor after reading all the stock reviews and comparisons lately on this board. There is always the chance that I could come up with an actual Crane stock if the price was right though. I only live a few minutes from NSWC Crane. Maybe someone who works there has picked one up and wants to part with it cheap. I guess I need to do some local searching...
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 2:00:40 PM EDT
Crane didn't make the stock, ARMS did. They were in the process of releasing the stock and limited samples were sold until Crane all the sudden decided to cash in and asked for a huge royalty. ARMS decided there is not enough profit with the price they can charge after the royalty and back out of commercial release. Those who were lucky enough to bought the first few samples are now asking for the ridiculous price. I know both ARMS and Mounting Solution Plus were stocking the Crane stock for a very short period of time.
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Not to flame here but absolutely none of that is even close to being true
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 2:10:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4SPR:
Crane didn't make the stock, ARMS did. They were in the process of releasing the stock and limited samples were sold until Crane all the sudden decided to cash in and asked for a huge royalty. ARMS decided there is not enough profit with the price they can charge after the royalty and back out of commercial release. Those who were lucky enough to bought the first few samples are now asking for the ridiculous price. I know both ARMS and Mounting Solution Plus were stocking the Crane stock for a very short period of time.
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Not to flame here but absolutely none of that is even close to being true
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I'm sure I'm not the only one who is wondering why you didn't care to elaborate.
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 6:54:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2003 8:34:53 PM EDT by MSTN]
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 6:56:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By techbrute: Personally, I haven't seen the attraction to the design. I prefer the Magpul and think that the modular design of the VLTOR would be more useful.
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IMO, the Crane is a much better looking stock. To me, the Magpul looks like it belongs on a Star Wars blaster or something and looks very odd on an AR. Besides, the Crane is used by some of the "elite" in the military, and that means a lot to some people. That's most of the reason M4geries are selling so well, right?
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 7:07:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2003 7:33:31 PM EDT by Hoplite]
Originally Posted By hycheng:
Originally Posted By Redbone: So the crane copies on the e&e are airsoft?
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As near as I know there is no Crane copies other than for airsoft. And one of these days I will get a fake one to compare with the real one I have to see how they match up.
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There is a guy in the EE selling crane clones made out of better materials than the original or so he claims. Im not too familier with polymers so i cant say if it is stronger or not
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 7:21:47 PM EDT
Both ARMS and LMT were awarded lic. by the Navy Dept. I don't know what the situation is right now, but the Crane stock has been issued a patent, and yet the are cheap airsoft knock offs tha the gov't need to go after and eliminate. Jack
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 8:00:55 PM EDT
Well if they wanted to make commercial money on the Crane stock, that boat was missed and long gone. The Crane is like a Mark 1 and the Vltor the improved Mark 3. It's nothing more than a primitive Vltor at this point. Possibly a better cheek weld as the surface is continuous, but I can see nothing else of advantage (if the Vltor is wearing the butt pad). It's just a collectors item at these days, IMO. I don't miss mine (I'm not a collector per se). (Hear that, Lumpy?) [:)]
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 12:30:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hoplite:
Originally Posted By hycheng: As near as I know there is no Crane copies other than for airsoft. And one of these days I will get a fake one to compare with the real one I have to see how they match up.
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There is a guy in the EE selling crane clones made out of better materials than the original or so he claims. Im not too familier with polymers so i cant say if it is stronger or not
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I believe those were made for airsoft also. Same as my link above.
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 6:37:56 AM EDT
Sorry for the minor threadjack, but what are the advantages of the Crane/Vltor/Magpul stocks over, say, the standard M4 6 position stock?
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 7:41:53 AM EDT
Until LMT starts making them, all the Crane "copies" are illegal.
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 7:59:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By D_Snider: Sorry for the minor threadjack, but what are the advantages of the Crane/Vltor/Magpul stocks over, say, the standard M4 6 position stock?
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With the Magpul, you have a consistant cheek weld. With the Crane and VLTOR, it's more comfortable, plus you have some utility added with the battery compartments. I'm looking forward to Magpul releasing their other stock variants.
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 8:02:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By D_Snider: Sorry for the minor threadjack, but what are the advantages of the Crane/Vltor/Magpul stocks over, say, the standard M4 6 position stock?
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the storage tubes in the stock
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 10:15:39 AM EDT
Do any of you Vltor owners have a beard (like me)? The Vltor looks like a beard hair catcher on steroids to me. We bearded folks know how the telestock and buffer tube can sometimes rip at beard hairs. Does the Vltor do the same?
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 11:28:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2003 11:30:20 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
Originally Posted By AKM: Do any of you Vltor owners have a beard (like me)? The Vltor looks like a beard hair catcher on steroids to me. We bearded folks know how the telestock and buffer tube can sometimes rip at beard hairs. Does the Vltor do the same?
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No problems here.[:)>] The modular sections lock in really good and there's no movement or space for an type of hair or skin pinching. [img]http://a7.cpimg.com/image/91/99/23963537-b666-01800200-.jpg[/img] [img]http://a4.cpimg.com/image/CA/9B/23963594-55f4-02000180-.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 11:07:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2003 11:08:15 PM EDT by AK_Mike]
Originally Posted By AKM: Do any of you Vltor owners have a beard (like me)? The Vltor looks like a beard hair catcher on steroids to me. We bearded folks know how the telestock and buffer tube can sometimes rip at beard hairs. Does the Vltor do the same?
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I understand what you are referring to, AKM. Hairs have an uncanny ability/tendency to get pinched into any crack within range. There is a definite possibility with the Vltor as there is a zigzag seam on the cheek weld. This is the ONLY aspect which I think the Crane stock has an edge on, the cheek weld is smooth and continuous. However, if one simply ran a piece of tape down the seam of the Vltor cheekpiece, I think you would easily eliminate the potential problem. You would still have the same danger at the front where it meets the tube though, just like a regular M4 stock.
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 2:17:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2003 2:18:34 PM EDT by M4Madness]
Originally Posted By AKM: Do any of you Vltor owners have a beard (like me)? The Vltor looks like a beard hair catcher on steroids to me. We bearded folks know how the telestock and buffer tube can sometimes rip at beard hairs. Does the Vltor do the same?
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I'll tell you what rips beard hairs out...a damn Ultra-Nock on a compound bow.
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 4:59:43 PM EDT
ONLY THE TRUE PIONEERS IN ALASKA REALY NEED TO WEAR BEARDS, BUT AK, YOU COULD ALWAYS SHAVE OFF THAT PART OF THE BEARD THAT GOES TO THE BUTT STOCK COULDN'T YOU? LOL GOOD SCRATCHIN, JACK
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 5:01:40 AM EDT
Razors are evil (Kinda like Dremel tools). LOL
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 5:24:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 3rdtk: ONLY THE TRUE PIONEERS IN ALASKA REALY NEED TO WEAR BEARDS, BUT AK, YOU COULD ALWAYS SHAVE OFF THAT PART OF THE BEARD THAT GOES TO THE BUTT STOCK COULDN'T YOU? LOL GOOD SCRATCHIN, JACK
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Them and my aunt Bertha.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 10:06:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2003 11:34:46 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]
I personally own an authentic Crane stock and have also handled an airsoft replica. Their is no comparison. The Crane stock is very well built! I personally do not believe the posts about their constant "failing". I wonder how many people who post about the authentic Crane have ever really owned/handled one? I believe the people who post about the "fragile Crane" might have gotten tricked into an airsoft. If the Cranes are so fragile, why is the SPECOPS community still using them? Hell, I can find pictures less than a month old showing SEAL teams in combat zones with Cranes! That says enough to me about how "fragile" they are. Now the choice between the airsoft crane or a Vltor is no contest. The airsoft replica I handled was not sturdy at all and also had the locking mechanism problems that I read so much about. My friend has a Vltor and its great. Very well built and with the same cheek weld as my Crane. But, I believe their is something about owning the real thing.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 10:56:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2003 10:57:05 AM EDT by Wipeout]
Originally Posted By Suburban:
Originally Posted By techbrute: Personally, I haven't seen the attraction to the design. I prefer the Magpul and think that the modular design of the VLTOR would be more useful.
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IMO, the Crane is a much better looking stock. To me, the Magpul looks like it belongs on a Star Wars blaster or something and looks very odd on an AR. [red]Besides, the Crane is used by some of the "elite" in the military, and that means a lot to some people.[/red] That's most of the reason M4geries are selling so well, right?
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Marine Force Recon has been issued the Magpull MSS (in coyote brown of course). The vltor has also been used by these operators and by AF PJ's
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 11:22:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2003 11:25:24 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]
Maybe a few individual Marine Recon or PJ's have acquired Magpulls or Vltors, but I have never read anything about them being "standard issue".
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 11:23:49 AM EDT
According to Pat Rogers, Force Recon uses the standard M4 stock. However, MCSOCOM Det. 1 does use the Magpul stock.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 3:27:13 PM EDT
I've read that DET-1 is testing various stocks. Nothing about what stock they are actually issued.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 5:06:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Va_Dinger: I've read that DET-1 is testing various stocks. Nothing about what stock they are actually issued.
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When it comes to the news stands, pick up the Dec. issue of SWAT.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 5:15:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wipeout:
Originally Posted By Va_Dinger: I've read that DET-1 is testing various stocks. Nothing about what stock they are actually issued.
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When it comes to the news stands, pick up the Dec. issue of SWAT.
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Yeah, there's a whole article by Pat about the VLTOR, Crane, Magpul, and the Sulley fixed stock.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 9:52:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 3rdtk: ONLY THE TRUE PIONEERS IN ALASKA REALY NEED TO WEAR BEARDS, BUT AK, YOU COULD ALWAYS SHAVE OFF THAT PART OF THE BEARD THAT GOES TO THE BUTT STOCK COULDN'T YOU? LOL GOOD SCRATCHIN, JACK
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Luckily, I don't have that problem. However, I maintain the mustache and goatee so people know I am the "evil" AK_Mike! [:D]
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 11:09:37 PM EDT
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