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Posted: 10/24/2006 11:22:51 AM EST
i'm looking to buy my first ar-15 type rifle, and wanted to know if anyone has heard of gunsmoke enterprises, and what reputation they have? i noticed there is no link to it on ar-15.com . . .
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 11:31:01 AM EST
I think I have heard that they have a bad reputation around here. I don't know all the details. I have only ever purchased once from them and it was only parts. I would personally probably choose someone else or buy a lower and build it yourself.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 11:57:02 AM EST
From what I've read from the guys that have been around these forums for a while:

Gunsmoke used to sell parts at a very high price during the Ban and the parts were made on the cheap so they would end up breaking very quickly.

I have personally seen the gunsmoke guys at gunshows talking alot of crap about the major companies and how they're so much better.

I woldnt buy a screw off them.

Khem
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 12:16:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By mike047:
I think I have heard that they have a bad reputation around here. I don't know all the details. I have only ever purchased once from them and it was only parts. I would personally probably choose someone else or buy a lower and build it yourself.



As above, I once bought some small parts off of them, and everything came in ok. Shortly thereafter, we started getting posts w/some real horror stories from people who had ordered major assemblies, barrelled uppers, complete rifles, etc, and either got short changed or totally screwed.

Since then, I've gone other places for my mail orders.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 12:31:51 PM EST
thanks guys - you clearly saved me some headaches . . .
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 1:17:08 PM EST
I was wondering what had happenned to those guys.
I remember some of the stuff they were selling back in the day was priced really high.
I didn't know about the other stuff.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 1:19:44 PM EST
wow, i haven't heard anything about that company in yrs.. idn't tihnk they were still around
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 1:47:19 PM EST
They have a "torture test" video on their website that shows 1,000 rds. in like 15 mins.I don't have any personal experience with them,but I was thinking of buying one from them after I watched that video.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 2:20:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By militantzero:
They have a "torture test" video on their website that shows 1,000 rds. in like 15 mins.I don't have any personal experience with them,but I was thinking of buying one from them after I watched that video.


The continuous video with multiple stop/edits?
Link Posted: 12/23/2006 7:56:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By militantzero:
They have a "torture test" video on their website that shows 1,000 rds. in like 15 mins.I don't have any personal experience with them,but I was thinking of buying one from them after I watched that video.


The continuous video with multiple stop/edits?


Huh?

Link Posted: 1/3/2007 11:27:58 AM EST
So whats the deal with these guys? Stripped lowers from $85 buckaroos...and quoted from the owner "They are made by the same Co. that makes Bushmaster
lowers." This would be???? LAR????

I think I am going to give the lower a try...It's 3rd tier but whatever...I only think the upper needs to be super quality anyway. As long as the upper/barrel and BCG are all machined together, should be ok.

Feedback or stories on this company would be great.


Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:20:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By militantzero:
They have a "torture test" video on their website that shows 1,000 rds. in like 15 mins.I don't have any personal experience with them,but I was thinking of buying one from them after I watched that video.


The continuous video with multiple stop/edits?


Huh?



Yes, there is a video of their torture test floating on the intarweb, but it is not a continuous film. It stops here and there so you don't really know what's going on. Throws the rifle in water to cool it off, etc. Looks like it was filmed in an area where they're mining phosphate or limestone. And as another poster said they sold parts at inflated prices during the AWB according to folks on ARFCOM.

I saw them with a table at a recent gun show here in FL. I really didn't take a close look at what they had. I only bought magazines that day and if I perused any on their table they either didn't have the right brand or price I was looking for. As far as the parts I bought from them myself, one piece is still in debate.

I bought what is supposed to be a Vortex which should be from Smith Ent., but after seeing photos on here in another thread, I'm still not certain if I have the real McCoy or a knock-off.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:52:47 PM EST
The pics and video on the site look like it's out on the prairie (Viking Prop) but hell it could be anywhere. I was born and raised in Okeechobee so I might have to get one of their lowers just for the hell of it.
Link Posted: 1/13/2007 3:39:20 PM EST
I plan on buying a lower at the gun show tomorrow. We will see what happens.....
Link Posted: 1/14/2007 12:10:48 PM EST
So I went to the show and they had complete rifles for 695 with a heavy barrel and 795 for the M4 contour. The guy told me that the internals (trigger group) were all FN, and the receivers by LAR. I held off because I was not sure what I was looking at.
Link Posted: 1/14/2007 12:33:52 PM EST
I dealt with Gunsmoke once. They claimed they were selling all Bushmaster parts.

They weren't!!!
Link Posted: 1/14/2007 1:12:57 PM EST

I bought parts from them now and then a few years ago and got decent stuff. They were very active on EE and even had their own industry site here. Then they started getting lots of complaints on this board, more or less stopped advertising, somebody wrote that they were doing a govt contract, and they basically disappeared. Now they're apparently around again. There are lots of good dealers and parts sellers now that didn't exist then. I probably wouldn't buy from them now.
Link Posted: 1/14/2007 1:59:02 PM EST
Since my last posting in this thread I have spoken to Ed Sr. a couple of times, Owner, and he has told me that their lower receivers are made by L.A.R. I have no reason to not believe him. LARgrizzley does supply some stuff to BM as well as Govt. Agencies and has done so for 30 some odd years. A manufacturer like this is not going to lessen their quality, no matter who is selling it, because their 'name' will always be their 'quality'. I have no problems buying core parts from GSE. Perhaps in the earlier days, GSE got a bad name, but it seems like they might have worked out the kinks and we'll see what happens.

Hey, anyone that went to SHOT...
Did GSE have stripped lowers for sale at their booth? I'm waiting for mine to ship from them.
Link Posted: 1/14/2007 2:06:58 PM EST
I had them build an AR-10 upper for me about 8 years ago. It took them 12 months after quoting me a time of three months, and when it did finally show up it wouldn't function reliably because their homemade gas block was a piece of crap. I wouldn't buy water from them if I was on fire.
Link Posted: 1/23/2007 5:15:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/24/2007 2:43:37 PM EST
I can't speak for the parts kits or trigger groups, but I can speak for their machined components. I ordered GSE lower from Ed and while placing an order with LAR Manufacturing, I verified that GSE was doing business with them for my own FYI. Give 'em a chance.
Link Posted: 1/24/2007 3:00:50 PM EST
I bought a Complete lower from them several years ago, and the owner of the company cautioned me not to shoot remington ammo in my rifle when I got it assembled. He said UMC was ok but Remington wasnt. Isnt Remington and UMC the same company? I have since heard him make several false statments and tell his customers some real whoppers at the Local Sun Coast Gunshow. They are selling stripped lowers for 85.00 I think Ill blow the 20 or so bucks and buy from someone else.
Link Posted: 1/24/2007 3:30:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/24/2007 3:37:07 PM EST by Banzai]
The issue is that, especially back in the early days of the board and during the ban, and apparently still now, they were selling parts as BM or FN that everyone wanted for M4s that were in VERY short supply for slightly more than fair market value (but they actually had product to ship!!), and they were proven time and time again to be something else, both by direct identification as something else and by direct confirmation from BM that neither they directly nor were any of their large parts distributors dealing with Gunsmoke.

Of course, that was when he actually shipped the parts within the same few months that he advertised "...in hand".

He advertised here, and had a spot in the industry forums, IIRC. When confronted with obvious issues, they went classic Tom "the OLY guy" nuclear about it, accusing people of ruining things just to piss on them, swapping products, outright lies....not only here, but also through personal email attacks and phone calls once they researched orders!

I know, I lived it, and mine is an extreme story, only a few of us that I read here got taken as badly as I did. Here's my story.

I got a "New BM 1/7 14.5 inch M4" USED (had plenty of copper and powder fouling) M1S barrel that was very AFU and had been sanded down where the stamping was (barely) and had BM markings stamped on it (when useing dye penetrant and a black light, you could clearly read the M1S stampings on it!!!!). My Colt M4 doulble insulated handguards were some aftermarket small style non insulated ones (with mis matched smooth and pebble grained pieces, at that) and the BM lower parts kit came in a sealed bag with a DPMS inventory print out that was EXACTALLY like the DPMS one that I had recently bought direct from DPMS. Not to mention that my COLT M4 carbine stock was really some airsoft piece of shit that had a painted tube (complete with runs) and a bent plastic piece! The BM A2 upper that I got in the same package looked nice, though!

My story was one of many at the time, it started fast, gathered speed, many of us got most of our money back, they got banned for life, and we all went on to get taken by the Lew Tippie thing (but that's a story for another time).

I sent them a regestered letter from my lawyer threatening legal action over the goods and a cease and desist order over the daily calls about my posts, I notified the local postmaster about fraud, I alerted my credit card about the purchase, and got a nasty gram letter about a week later with a cashiers check for the full purchase price with shipping, and an account number to use to charge return shipping to them UPS. I sent their shit back to them AFTER the check cleared without so much as a "Fuck you very much".

Shoddy businesses seldom change their practices, just find new ways to hide what they're doing, and people change even less so.....fraudulent businesses still run by the same people years later....., never again.

Tom Keith
(the 300 Whipser FAQ guy)

If there's no link on AR15.com, that's not necessarily a kiss of death, but if there's no link AND no representation here, there's probably a good reason, and it's propped up by a series of stories like mine.
Link Posted: 1/24/2007 3:32:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/24/2007 3:34:42 PM EST by Banzai]

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
I bought a Complete lower from them several years ago, and the owner of the company cautioned me not to shoot remington ammo in my rifle when I got it assembled. He said UMC was ok but Remington wasnt. Isnt Remington and UMC the same company? I have since heard him make several false statments and tell his customers some real whoppers at the Local Sun Coast Gunshow. They are selling stripped lowers for 85.00 I think Ill blow the 20 or so bucks and buy from someone else.



......more of the same shit from them. How in the world when buying a lower that an ammo recommendation is warranted is beyond my capacity to understand! Especially when Remington ammo, and especially the UMC stuff(old yellow box), used to be HATED (especially here) as "....underpowered shit with soft brass....." etc, etc, etc. My how times change, huh?
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 4:00:01 AM EST
The owner, Ed, ripped me off almost 10 years ago. I am always surprised that people like this manage to stay in business....
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 3:06:16 PM EST
how did he rip you off...what's your story?
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 5:32:48 PM EST
I purchased one of their strippedlowers on a private sale (not from GS direct) and I was going to build on it but re-sold it due to GS's past reputation. I didnt want to take the chance of having a bad lower and went with a Spike's Tactical stripped lower. Spikes was much better in quality and fit much better to my test upper.

Ed is a bit of a blowhard and I have caught him in a few lies while attending the Sun Coast Gun Shows in the last few years. I can not trust a person like that and after hearing all the horror stories about GS, I just walk by his booth and I dont bother with him.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 2:47:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By JmasterJ:
I can't speak for the parts kits or trigger groups, but I can speak for their machined components. I ordered GSE lower from Ed and while placing an order with LAR Manufacturing, I verified that GSE was doing business with them for my own FYI. Give 'em a chance.


I received my lower, and I very happy with the quality. It fits flawlessly with my uppers and the color is a nice match. Thanks Ed
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