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Posted: 8/30/2004 8:17:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 8:18:07 AM EST by jeev]
helppppppppp, i live in kalifornia, everyone says, move out move out this or that! i want to build an M4. i'm looking at model 1 sales then click m16 m4, i want to build that, 465 is not bad, what else would i need? a stripped lower receiver? anyone know the specific one i'd need to make it california legal? this really sucks, i'm not gonna move out of kali to own some guns, but there should be a way around to own it. can anyone help me find an M4 for cheap or build one for cheap?! ;D thanks!

j
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 8:30:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 8:31:03 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By jeev:
helppppppppp, i live in kalifornia, everyone says, move out move out this or that! i want to build an M4. i'm looking at model 1 sales then click m16 m4, i want to build that, 465 is not bad, what else would i need? a stripped lower receiver? anyone know the specific one i'd need to make it california legal? this really sucks, i'm not gonna move out of kali to own some guns, but there should be a way around to own it. can anyone help me find an M4 for cheap or build one for cheap?! ;D thanks!

j



You must use a lower that cannnot accept a detatchable mag, or that fires single shots...

FAB-10 is one option, 10 round fixed magazine, you 'shotgun' the rifle to re-load...

DPMS has a single shot one as well...

Theoretically, you could also have a .22LR-only rifle with detatchable mags by perminantly attaching a DPMS .22LR M4 upper to a regular AR lower (eg weld the front takedown pin in place), although I think you'd have to have it done out of Kali in order to an AR lower from which to make it... Since the .22 bore on this gun is incompatible with .223 ammo, and cannot accept a normal AR bolt, you would have a rimfire-only AR...
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 12:17:03 PM EST
i've been told to get a G-1 FN FAL KIT, can anyone refer me to any? and would i be able to put anything bigger than a 10 rd fixed clip?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 12:28:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By jeev:
i've been told to get a G-1 FN FAL KIT, can anyone refer me to any? and would i be able to put anything bigger than a 10 rd fixed clip?



Any FAL kit will be fine if you want a FAL. You can get an Imbel kit from FAC (www.gunsnstuff.net), and the parts to finish it from DSA (www.dsarms.com).

Same rules as for everything else.

CA bans any gun with (a) a detatchable magazine and (b) a long list of 'features' including pistol grips and thumbhole stocks.

Fixed mags over 10rds are verboten too...

What you end up with, as far as the FAL is concerned, is a modified gun that will not allow you to remove the magazine. You buy a special top cover which allows you to re-load using 5 or 10rd stripper clips (basically, ammo on a metal 'clip' which you notch into the gun and slide the ammo off into the internal magazine)...

As a side note, with the FAL, this prohibits the use of most magnified optics, as the clips go where your scope would mount.

On the CA-legal fixed-mag AR, since the gun breaks open like a shotgun, this is a non-issue...

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 1:29:18 PM EST
well, how much would it run me to make a kali legal m4? or buy one premade?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:31:18 PM EST
About $800 to $1000.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:31:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 5:32:41 PM EST by Ghost-Shooter]
Edited to say: hmm my reading comprehension skills suck today. Please ignore my response
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:00:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 9:55:57 AM EST by gs430]
Jeev - A FAB-10 is your best bet. I have one of these lowers but it's not quite in spec. On mine, the pistol grip mount area is too wide and it's nearly impossible to get a grip on it (I've tried a few). I was able to get a A1 grip to go on (spreading the opening of the grip with a screwdriver) but once I installed it, I wasn't able to get the selector lever to move correctly as too much of the grip is sticking out (since it was spread open). I ended up modifying a A2 grip with a rasp and some sandpaper and finally got it to fit on ok....

Speaking of the selector....the two "limiter tabs", that are absolutely useless (I believe it's there as an extra step to prevent you from installing full auto parts), weren't ground down to spec so the selector will not sit 100% horizontal on "SAFE"...I tried a few different selectors....all had the same issue. The gun will still go "SAFE" as soon as you turn the selector just part way (like 10 degrees) so it's not a huge issue for me...still annoying.

Also, the buffer tube threads aren't quite in spec. Very, very tight. I couldn't get a Colt or Vltor collapsable tube to fit on it but I did end up getting a Bushmaster A2 tube on it but I had to use a wrench after just a few threads...I don't really care about a collapsable stock on this lower since I have a pre-ban that has one and a soon-to-be pre-ban AR that will get on soon (both rifles were bought before the 2000 CA Ban)

The finish is also not desirable (to me anyways). It's a powder coated or painted finish and isn't too durable. I prefer the anodized finishes (Colt/Bush/RAA/etc.)...but that's me...

I've contacted Shoeless Ventures and their suggestions were to modify the parts I had and they kept trying to infer that I was using "cheap" lower parts...I didn't know Colt/Bushmaster/Vltor were "cheap" parts.... According to them, their lowers are 100% in-spec....I call BULLSHIT on that (unless they're using a different spec....).

Anyways, I did end up getting it together after modding a few parts....haven't shot it yet but it does function ok (dry fired with some snap caps)....

Can't wait to move out of this fucked up liberal socialist state so I can buy normal guns....

[edit - updated a few things]
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 3:25:30 PM EST
I just finished my first M4 FAB-10 build and it cost me $1000. My lower was fully in spec and I had little problem installing parts other than noob mistakes. Used a J&T E4 preban upper and a 6 position M4 stock. No chance to shoot it but it functions well. Do it!
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:50:37 AM EST
Is it legal to use a pre-ban upper on a Fab10 receiver? If so, Im going to build one.

<­BR>

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 7:44:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 7:45:04 AM EST by ian187]

Originally Posted By powderpacker:
Is it legal to use a pre-ban upper on a Fab10 receiver? If so, Im going to build one.






Yes, it is legal. There is no ban when using a FAB-10 receiver.

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:00:15 PM EST
Yeah, FAB 10 is not even considered an assault weapon so you can throw whatever you want on it.
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