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Posted: 9/10/2004 6:37:39 AM EST
"He who defines the terms, wins the debate"…Or, only you can prevent future bans.
Yesterday my wife and I were visiting an elderly lady. The lady won’t admit it, but she is a hard-core democrat. Anyhow, she brought up the fact that she had watched C-Span discussion regarding "those horrible assault weapons, and how kids are going to be all over the street with them again!!"
I said, "Oh, you mean the law banning civilian military-looking semi-autos?" She said, "No, I don’t think that’s it…I mean that other thingie." "You mean, the so-called Assault Weapons Ban?" "Yeah! That’s the one!" "Don’t worry," I said, "…they’re not a problem!!"
Anyhow, I explained to her the difference between Title 2 firearms [REAL Assault Weapons]. I explained to her how the "AWB" is predicated upon a hoax. I explained to her that the "AWB" is a cosmetic law based upon cosmetic features, and explained to her those evil cosmetic features.
Toward the end she said, "So, you mean that there’s no real difference between those guns and the ones my father and late husband had, other than the looks?" [Apparently they had Browning semi-auto rifles and shot-guns]
I also cited her statistics about insignificant crime usage, the majority of police officers’ opinion rather than politically-correct liberal chiefs of police. She finally concurred that the "AWB" was indeed a cosmetic political football, a fraud, a hoax.
There is an old adage: "He who defines the terms, wins the debate"…
When the filthy, dirty, foul, disgusting, reprobate Lib-dogs say things like "2/3rds of the American people favor the Assault Weapons Ban," there probably is a significant element of truth to that.
BUT, if the American people were asked, "Do you favor banning civilian military-looking semi-autos?" I am sure, certain, and confident that 2/3rds of the American people would say, "No!"
"He who defines the terms, wins the debate"…
We are never going to have final victory until WE can have the terms truthfully and accurately defined.
And, until we START doing that ourselves, even here on this board, how can we expect the lying, deceitful, Lib-dogs of the brain-washed, Lib-dog media to do it?
Suggestion: STOP saying and writing, "Assault Weapons" and "Assault Weapons Ban." And repeat over to yourself the following until it becomes natural off of the lips…
"Civilian military-looking semi-autos".
"Civilian military-looking semi-autos".
"Civilian military-looking semi-autos".
"Civilian military-looking semi-autos".
"Civilian military-looking semi-autos".
"Civilian military-looking semi-autos".
"Civilian military-looking semi-autos".
"Civilian military-looking semi-autos".

Remember: "Civilian military-looking semi-autos".
Also remember: "He who defines the terms, wins the debate."
This is how we got the now expiring ban, and this will be how we will get an even more evil one to follow, if we are not disciplined and careful in our own terms of speech!
266


Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:44:38 AM EST
Do not call 17 or 30 round magazines "High Capacity" - they are, as their inventors designed and intended them to be - STANDARD Capacity magazines. Post 1994 Clinton Gun Ban Magazines are "Reduced" capacity. To use any other terminology is to play into the hand of the anti-rights/anti-gun movement.

-- Me

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 10:40:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 10:42:44 AM EST by A_Free_Man]
EXACTLY!!!

"Civilian military-looking semi-autos" or "Home Defense Carbine" or "Self Defense Pistol", not "Assault Weapon".

Any time they say Assault Weapon, ask, "Do you mean machine guns and full automatic weapons like military uses? Certainly you don't mean defensive firearms like many citizens own for self defense against criminals?"

Standard capacity mag vs reduced capacity mag.

Make them say they are against citizens defending themselves with common firearms.

And don't let them insert hunting into the discussion. Force the issue, "This discussion is not about recreation, we are talking about citizens having the ability to defend themselves agains criminals."

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 11:02:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
EXACTLY!!!

"Civilian military-looking semi-autos" or "Home Defense Carbine" or "Self Defense Pistol", not "Assault Weapon".



I really wish they would all call them HDRs - Homeland Defense Rifle.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 11:12:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 4:30:47 PM EST
Above all, be nice when debating. Our profesional attitudes carry much further than our words. We know our stuff, but nobody is going to listen to a bunch of ranting, gun-toting, wackos (as we are often portrayed by the media). People, by their nature will sit patiently and listen to intelligent conversation and valid, logical points of view. So go out there and don't be afraid to debate intelligently with a well-though out point of view and have some fun, just don't gloat.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 4:45:36 PM EST
All OF YOUR suggestions are great!!
How about:
"Military-looking Semi-auto Sport Utility Rifle."
"Civilian Military-looking Homeland Defense Rifle"
"Homeland Defense Sport Utility Rifle"
"Civilian Homeland Defense Sport Utility Rifle"
"Sport Utility Military-looking Semi-auto Rifle."
"Military-looking Home Defense Rifle"
"Civilian Military-looking Home Defense Rifle."
"Civilian Sport Military-looking Home Defense Rifle"
"Civilian Military-looking Home Defense and Sporting Rifle"

Any others?
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 5:02:58 PM EST
Black Rifle
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 10:51:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By 266-23:
"When the filthy, dirty, foul, disgusting, reprobate Lib-dogs say things like "2/3rds of the American people favor the Assault Weapons Ban," there probably is a significant element of truth to that.



Truthfully, I'm suprised it isn't higher than that considering I'd guess 4/5 (80%) of the population has no understanding of what the ban is, other than the misinformation portrayed in the media.


I think "sport utility rifle" is a great term. Q - What so you use that for? A - All sorts of things.
Why do people that live in warm climate, metropolitan areas need to drive the biggest 4WD SUV they can? Just because they like it and they can afford it. Same sort of thing, right?
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 1:01:54 AM EST
I agree with all of the abover, BUT....

The real problem lies in the fact that we can't enforce the 23,000+ federal, state, and local firearms laws currently on the books. If you want to crack down on gun related crimes, go after those who are committing the crimes (usually with illegally obtained firearms). Make the FBI and BATF earn their paychecks by getting illegal dealers off the streets and enforcing the existing laws if you want a real reduction in gun related crimes. Trying to restrict the rights of law-obiding citizens who aren't the problem isn't the solution!

Maybe one day the politicians will figure this out, but I really don't expect it to happen in my lifetime.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 3:21:38 AM EST
Yes, the media has made sure that most people think the ban is about machine guns. When you explain what the ban really covers, most reasonable people will say, "But that is not what they said on the news, that's stupid!"

And there are the diehard anti-gunners who will say, "Well, I'm not a gun person, I don't know all the details, but we have to do something, we have to start somewhere." A "first step".

They just want to ban guns. Back in the 80's they realized they lost the handgun ban debate. And in the years since, most states have CCW. So, the gun ban groups regrouped, changed their names to encompass evil looking firearms.

But never forget their true goal... they want to ban, and seize ALL guns.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:35:48 AM EST



I really wish they would all call them HDRs - Homeland Defense Rifle.



Talk to OLY.....
You may not care for their stuff but they did have the balls to name their Posties "Politically Correct Rifles" PCR....
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:22:43 AM EST
worthy of a bump
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:59:22 AM EST
The "Civilian military-looking semi-autos" probably won't improve things much. "Military-looking" and assault sound about the same. I've also heard people saying semi-autos were evil because "they can shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger". "Home Defense Rifle" is probably a better one. Or, with the current state of overall panic, "Anti-Terrorist Rifle" or "Anti-Criminal Rifle" may be good.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:13:11 AM EST
What about just plain ol' Semi-auto rifle or Semi-auto carbine? That seems to be less of a trade off as it groups our little black guns with less "threatening" ones.

It also helps more clearly differentiate from the Full-auto stuff the brady bunch tries represent our gun as being.

I HATE POLITICALLY CORRECT.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:33:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:38:10 AM EST
I Just call it my black rifle.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:03:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Homeland Defense Rifles

Because you can't be against Homeland Defense Rifles without being against Homeland Defense!

And if you are against Homeland Defense, you are a tratior.

Therefore, anyone against Homeland Defense Rifles are by reasoning, Traitors!




You bastard you beat me to it! However I'm gonna take it in a slightly different direction.


Freedom rifle! In the event that they are ever used whether against our own government if it becomes overly suppressive, or against enemies of the state it's a symbol of freedom!
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:38:34 AM EST
"Infidel repellant" - That doesn't even name it as a firearm.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:53:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 1:02:46 PM EST
Great comments above.

Its all in how its portrayed and defined that influences perceptions of the uninformed.

At my PD we only recently got AR-15's for duty use. We could have never gotten "Assault Rifles" past our elected board of supervisors when trying to obtain them for duty use. Instead, we had to spin it and call them "Patrol Rifles" which is pretty much what the rest of the law enforcement community has had to do to get them, especially in relatively small departments with limited resources run by super-critical/anal retentive/political-correctness-driven elected officials.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 1:05:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
I've always been fond of the term "sport utility rifle".....after all I do use them for "sport" and "utility"



+1
I like that. In the same way a Sport Utility Vehical is a tough all business vehical used for just about any situation the rifles that we love are tough all business rifles that can be used for just about anything from hunting to self-defence to target shooting. Sport Utility Rifle, sounds good to me.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 1:18:20 PM EST
This thread needs a tack in my opinion. Every member or reader of this forum should see this post. The press and the public need to stop acting like blind, lost sheep, believing every vague rumor they hear, and instead learn some facts about what they talk about or vote on! PERIOD!
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 1:26:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By GLC1:
Great comments above.

Its all in how its portrayed and defined that influences perceptions of the uninformed.

At my PD we only recently got AR-15's for duty use. We could have never gotten "Assault Rifles" past our elected board of supervisors when trying to obtain them for duty use. Instead, we had to spin it and call them "Patrol Rifles" which is pretty much what the rest of the law enforcement community has had to do to get them, especially in relatively small departments with limited resources run by super-critical/anal retentive/political-correctness-driven elected officials.




.....THANK YOU! It makes me feel good hearing you, as a LEO, say that. Hope all of your fellow officers and co-workers are of the same opinion of how rediculous the "AWB" is.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 2:33:50 PM EST
"Because you can't be against Homeland Defense Rifles without being against Homeland Defense!"

YES!!! They loaded the terms in their favor... let us load it in ours.

And guys, remember, after tomorrow, or rather, after midnight tonight, there is NO SUCH THING as an "assault weapon!"

"Assault weapon" is an artificial term chosen to elicit a kneejerk reaction. We perhaps helped bring this on, as in the 80's, we gun owners called AR's and such "assault rifles".

Well, no more. I have never assaulted anyone, and I don't think you would either.

So, any time this is brought up, correct them, Homeland Defense Rifle. Keep it up, ram it down their throats. Interrupt everytime "Assault Weapon" is said. No AWB, no such thing as assault weapon.

I do intend to use my AR-15 for home defense, self defense, and defense of my community if ever needed. But better yet, merely knowing that so many of these arms are in civilian hands will prevent many crimes.

What if, during the beltway sniper incident, an armed citizen saw the shooters? What if he scooted back to the trunk of his car, took out his AR-15 and returned fire? What if he took out the shooter? Hero or goat? Who the hell cares? The problem would have been taken care of.

What if the shooter had a good idea that there were citizens out there that were capable of shooting back? The equation changes. We know there have been crimes not carried out, as the criminal was afraid the victim might be armed.

And the bottom line? I don't care one whit if the Police Chief, Mayor, or Diane Feinswine likes me having an AR-15 or not. Screw 'em.

But WE should control the debate.

Good thread 226-23!
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 2:42:34 PM EST
Assault STYLE weapons. As it is almost exclusively cosmetic.
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