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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/2/2005 3:44:34 PM EDT
I fired nearly 400 rounds of this stuff today at the 100 yard range. The gun was an M4 clone frankengun with an EoTech mounted, fired from a bench with a bipod.

Pros
1. It's all pretty and shiny. (Not like XM193.)
2. It's seems clean enough. Supposedly contains no lead or other toxic nasties.
3. No malfunctions of any kind. Seems plenty powerful and well-matched to the AR15 family.
4. For me personally, it was as accurate as XM193.

Cons
1. A tad more expensive than typical XM193.
2. Uncertain about ballistics and fragmentation for critical defense use.





Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:12:21 PM EDT
This ammo is not combat ammo.

It is held to a tighter tolerance than say American Eagle, and will powder on impact with a hard surface.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:02:29 PM EDT
What were you impressions as to its effectiveness for personal defense at under 50 yds? I live in an apartment and have been thinking about using Win. Ranger 5.56 frangable training loads for use in my Colt. What do you think?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 6:28:57 AM EDT
WHy would you select a round that will fail to incapacitate just to keep misses from penetrating as many rounds in your apt? Any round that will penetrate to adequate depths in a human is guaranteed to penetrate all the walls of a home or apt till it hits the exterior brick wall. Simply accept that fact and either dont use a firearm for defense in your apt or select the best ammo to incapacitate an agressor so you fire fewer rounds and limit the noumber of potential misses.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:29:25 AM EDT
If I recall correctly, one of the big-name instructors I trained under uses Hornady 50g frangibles for the first few rounds in his home-defense carbine. And, this instructor has seen the elephant on numerous occassions.

Personally, I use UMC 45g HP ammo available in the 200rnd bulk packs. My carbine has a 1/7 twist that practically turns this round into a frangible....but it's available locally whereas most upper-end frangible ammo isn't or is allocated to LEO-only by the store clerks. The UMC has minimum penetration in gelatin (4-8", iirc) and I hope to keep it from going through too many walls in the house.

Sure, I could use military ball ammo just like everyone else, but I don't want to have those rounds flying around any more than they have to. I'm a civilian and civil liability is a serious concern. Sounds weird to some, but I work armed and train regularly. Part of that training is legal awareness, and that is some scary jive. Sometimes I wonder if it isn't better to be shot by the badguy before I fire a round!

Anyhow, I will definitely look to get some truly-frangible ammuntion just as soon as I find a local source. Until then, it's store-bought hardball for practice and store-bought 45g HP for home defense.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 1:36:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VaughnT:
If I recall correctly, one of the big-name instructors I trained under uses Hornady 50g frangibles for the first few rounds in his home-defense carbine. And, this instructor has seen the elephant on numerous occassions.

Personally, I use UMC 45g HP ammo available in the 200rnd bulk packs. My carbine has a 1/7 twist that practically turns this round into a frangible....but it's available locally whereas most upper-end frangible ammo isn't or is allocated to LEO-only by the store clerks. The UMC has minimum penetration in gelatin (4-8", iirc) and I hope to keep it from going through too many walls in the house.

Sure, I could use military ball ammo just like everyone else, but I don't want to have those rounds flying around any more than they have to. I'm a civilian and civil liability is a serious concern. Sounds weird to some, but I work armed and train regularly. Part of that training is legal awareness, and that is some scary jive. Sometimes I wonder if it isn't better to be shot by the badguy before I fire a round!

Anyhow, I will definitely look to get some truly-frangible ammuntion just as soon as I find a local source. Until then, it's store-bought hardball for practice and store-bought 45g HP for home defense.



I assume you've fired the 45gr HP out of your carbine. Did it blow apart when it left the muzzle? I've fired some 45 gr SP's out of mine as well as some 52 gr HP and both blew apart. Not all, but a significant amount blew up soon after leaving the muzzle. The 1/7 twist tore them apart.
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