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Posted: 10/26/2004 3:02:44 PM EDT
What ammo do you that are in LE use for your black rifles?
my dept is notorious for being tight with money . the chief wants me to use some sort of mil surp ammo but I WILL NOT use green tip. anyone got suggestions?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 4:10:52 PM EDT
we issue winchester Q3131A
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 5:37:17 PM EDT
LE around here uses Remington green box. They are nice enough to leave the brass on the range for me to pick up....
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 6:11:34 PM EDT
We use Hornady T.A.P. Urban rounds.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 6:52:09 PM EDT
TAP barrier in 20 round mags.
TAP 55gr urban in the 30's .

Cost?
Annual departmental puchases will lower costs through volume.

Practice is with Re-Man.

Primary Zero must be accomodated for both.

Black Hills for both practice and Duty ammo is a good option.
Have yet to see a single failure with Black hills re-man ammo.

Best of luck.
Budgets SUCK!!!!

S-28
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 7:38:14 PM EDT
how come you wont use green tip ammo?? assumming you are talking about m855 62gr/ss109??

is it an overpenatration concern?? or are you worried about the damage mil surp will do to your rifle??
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:03:06 PM EDT
over penetration is the main concern. being law enforcement ...if I ever actually fried my rifle I would be held accountable for every round that left my barrel.
Being that green tip is penetrator tip it may go right through the bad guy and through a couple more people before stopping.

The dept would not buy ammo by the case being that I am the only officer with a rifle to use it in.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:43:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 10:44:33 PM EDT by NM-AR15]
Since no one else has said it yet .... I'd go with the ever popular XM193. Makes the chief happy and is good ammo that is affordable enough to shoot alot of. Less overpenetration than 9mm and good fragmentation with 5.56 velocity. A lot of the so called LEO rounds are only loaded to .223 standards.

Our department requires 55 Grain Federal Softpoints. Why ? No one Knows. (And I need a bit more pull before I can overcome the inertia.) At the range the plan is to get all the guys we can Rifle Qualified and then raise the ammo issue.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:44:11 AM EDT
Green tip won't over penetrate in bad guys. Having said that, there are a lot of good choices to go with other than M855.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 11:06:33 AM EDT
Read this, Ammo-oracle
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 3:04:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMCSKI:
over penetration is the main concern. being law enforcement ...if I ever actually fried my rifle I would be held accountable for every round that left my barrel.
Being that green tip is penetrator tip it may go right through the bad guy and through a couple more people before stopping.

The dept would not buy ammo by the case being that I am the only officer with a rifle to use it in.


XM193 would be the choice. Less penetration than .40 S&W. XM193 will drop a bad guy like a stone.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 4:22:57 AM EDT
OK ....wahts a good source for the ammo?
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 9:58:21 AM EDT
Check out the Tagged "Ammo Price List" its updated every couple of days and probably the best feature of the Ammo forum. ( OK the Ammo Oracle kicks ass too but after you've absorbed its info you forget how little you used to know)
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 2:49:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 2:50:06 PM EDT by DavidDetroit]

Originally Posted By USMCSKI:
OK ....wahts a good source for the ammo?


www.sportsmansguide.com
has good deals on XM193.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:26:08 PM EDT
+1 for XM193

and

+1 for Q3131A

Sarge
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:22:00 PM EDT
Is the M855 suppose to be harder on your barrel than other ammo's as one had asked earlier in this thread?
I have been shooting it through my BM and it shoots great, with no problems at all.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 10:38:58 PM EDT
juran21

Is the M855 suppose to be harder on your barrel than other ammo's as one had asked earlier in this thread? I have been shooting it through my BM and it shoots great, with no problems at all.



Negative this is what your weapon was designed to shoot. (excepting those with .223 chambers or other production flaws in their weapons) It is a military weapon and designed for military ammo (even surplus). NATO loadings are theoretically tougher on the barrel than a SAMMI spec .223 load but the barrel is designed for those higher pressures and they are not going to damage anything.

Read the Ammo Oracle it will answer 97% (+- 2%) of your questions (may take several reading to absorb the material).
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 12:02:41 AM EDT
Federal LE223T3-performs the best of any round currently available through auto glass and the rest of the FBI ammo tests. A little pricy though at $1.00 a round. Good stuff !! Excellent accuracy.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:04:07 PM EDT
ranger 64gr power point nypd
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 1:23:21 AM EDT
federals xm193

or the trophy bonded bear claws, 55 or 68 grs
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 5:21:01 AM EDT
Go get some incindiary projectiles from Ammo To Go and let the bad guys know you mean business!
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 3:23:23 AM EDT
Ultramax 55Gr FMJ in 30 rd. mags. Federal TRU 55 Gr HP in 20 rd. mags.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 9:01:30 PM EDT
Some polymer tipped Winchester round. We have changed ammo way too many times in the few years we have had patrol carbines.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 9:33:16 PM EDT
FMJ is a hard sell to the less informed public, and the lawyers that cover liability cases.


A massive public education program would be most appreciated.

As it is, any time the PO-lice show up with a rifle, the "Victims" will be screaming liability to line their wallet.

Truth of the matter is that underpenetrating ammo is working well enough in the balance, thanks to training and dedication of the officers.

Marketing "Urban" ammo and "Police" ammo has it's hazzards and involves risk and liability to the whole operation.

Knowing the score on both sides, my hat is off to the good Cops and those that attempt to support them in this regard.

Both know the score.
And it ain't good.
Yet they continue on.

Training, mindset, and tactics will prevail.

Failure on the part of properly placed shots can be blamed completely on the public.
Same goes for stray shots that involve secondary targets.

No cop or grunt is there because they find the situation optimum for survival.

S-28



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