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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 9/17/2009 12:19:06 PM EST
K, I've finally seen enough to bother me into asking this question. Why in the world do some guys spend hundreds of dollars on a really nice red dot site and then leave their irons up in an absolute cowitness. It just makes no sense to me to have a red dot just lined up perfect with your ghost ring and front sight post, but maybe I have no clue what I am talking about. Help me understand this. If I were going to absolute cowitness my red dot, then I would just save the money on the red dot because I am still using my irons to sight, right? (and I understand that lower 1/3 cowitness is different because you are above your irons so I'm not talking about that). If I spent all that money on a red dot I would get my irons out of the way for increased visibility, quicker target acquisition, and less junk in my line of sight. Just wondering.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:25:11 PM EST
because if your red dot fails for what ever reason, you still have something to aim with with out any adjustments
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:26:29 PM EST
With a flip down rear of front and rear the dot makes for faster on target shooting.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:33:59 PM EST
I have a Troy flip up BUIS and I don't leave it up when I'm using my red dot. Its ridding behind my EOTech 512 which is absolute cowitness and it doesn't bother me. All I concentrate on is the red dot I don't even see the fsb. I have shot with my irons up with the red dot on and it helps get me on target faster, but I think its one of those to each his own. I have been debating about getting a larue qd mount for it though.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 2:04:12 PM EST
I prefer only the red dot in my sight picture so I run flip-ups front and rear.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 2:10:02 PM EST
It makes no sense to me either. 1/3 is the way to get the speed advantage and keep your sight picture clear. The irons are still there, boys and girls. Why keep the FSP in the circle/dot when you can have it just below?

Personal preference doesn't answer this question clearly enough for me. Absolute co-witness just tells me you don't really use the RDS.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 2:10:16 PM EST
You really don't see the sights when you run an absolute co-witness. Usually, you look just above the sites and use the red dot, but it is an easy transistion to full co-witness with less head movement. That's how I ran my old Mk18 clone setup and I like it a lot. I do, however agree that it is even better to just run a good set of flip up sights instead and move them out of the way to run your red dot only.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 2:11:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By WorstCaseScenario:
It makes no sense to me either. 1/3 is the way to get the speed advantage and keep your sight picture clear. The irons are still there, boys and girls. Why keep the FSP in the circle/dot when you can have it just below?

Personal preference doesn't answer this question clearly enough for me. Absolute co-witness just tells me you don't really use the RDS.


And I DO believe it is personal preference. There is no real right or wrong IMO. It is just what you like and how you train.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 2:19:53 PM EST
I run a 1/3rd with a fixed front flip-up rear... on ALL of my guns... (those w/ flip up fronts.... are always flipped up)

I agree––- absolute co-witness isnt THAT obnoxious, but for the fraction of a second it takes to slap my rear troy up... i want that extra bit of tube...
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 2:24:00 PM EST
You should be able to shoot both eyes open with the red dot- you look at the target and you see the dot. You don't even notice the front sight. But if the red dot dies, you can still be confident your iron is zeroed.

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 2:32:10 PM EST
I prefer flip us with red dots, but when firing with fixed absolute co-witness, the red dot over powers the sight and the sight fades and you won't see it. To me 1/3 is retarded, because if your red dot goes down, then you have to change your point of aim. Like already stated though, its all preference. !/3 may work better for some people, just not me. I'm just saying if your running fixed sights the red dot will take over your sight picture and you won't notice the irons.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 2:33:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By tnolley:
You should be able to shoot both eyes open with the red dot- you look at the target and you see the dot. You don't even notice the front sight. But if the red dot dies, you can still be confident your iron is zeroed.



This
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 2:44:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By WorstCaseScenario:
It makes no sense to me either. 1/3 is the way to get the speed advantage and keep your sight picture clear. The irons are still there, boys and girls. Why keep the FSP in the circle/dot when you can have it just below?

Personal preference doesn't answer this question clearly enough for me. Absolute co-witness just tells me you don't really use the RDS.


Ok so if it wasnt for personal preference why have a red dot, rails, mounted lights, lazers, vfg, or anything else. I dont like aks so screw them. Who pissed in your Cornflakes?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 2:57:29 PM EST
You do not even see them.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 3:31:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By tnolley:
You should be able to shoot both eyes open with the red dot- you look at the target and you see the dot. You don't even notice the front sight. But if the red dot dies, you can still be confident your iron is zeroed.



This. You won't be used to a different cheek weld, so you stand a much better chance of shooting for a shit if the red dot goes tits-up.

The fixed front sight post is stronger than any folding sight post, cheaper, and one less thing to fuck with if you do have a failure. On top of that, as tnolley said, you don't notice the front sight with both eyes open.

They do seem to be necessary for the Gucci guns though.

Folding front sight makes much more sense if you're using magnifying optics.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 10:05:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 10:07:20 AM EST by rav3nwulfe]
k, I guess I could phrase my question better. I understand about just having the FSB doesn't really matter because you don't even see it, but my real question is:

1. why even get a red dot if you are are going to absolute cowitness and leave both your front sight AND rear sight up? (not just the front sight)

like this or similar idea:
just seems that since you are still gonna have to sight through your irons, why even get the red dot then?

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 10:14:23 AM EST
If it helps good guys put holes in bad guys, I don't care too much how they decide to line 'em up.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 10:17:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By rav3nwulfe:
k, I guess I could phrase my question better. I understand about just having the FSB doesn't really matter because you don't even see it, but my real question is:

1. why even get a red dot if you are are going to absolute cowitness and leave both your front sight AND rear sight up? (not just the front sight)

just seems that since you are still gonna have to sight through your irons, why even get the red dot then?


With both eyes open the aperture ring and front sight are hazed out and aren't even perceived––it's the red dot that your eyes/brain automatically pick out...
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 6:14:58 AM EST
How about this one. I dont see why EVERYONE does not just ditch anything but folding irons and run absoloute cowitness. That is the point I am at. I wont own a rifle with a fixed FSB since it is nothing but a distraction.
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