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Posted: 8/1/2004 1:58:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 10:34:03 AM EST by USMINUTeMAN]
Another dismal range report!

Well a few months back I encountered trigger trouble with my RRA 2 stage and after posting on the boards I was able to figure it out and fix the problem. a brief over view for anyone who missed the drama. Lesson 1) Bushmaster lowers use .153 trigger pins, RRA 2 stage pins provided in kit are .154! Lesson 2) DO NOT POUND THE RRA PINS IN!?!?! Lesson 3) Crome silicone trigger springs do not work with RRA 2 stage. FIX 1) Put factory springs that came with RRA 2 stage in and presto! Fix 2) Ordered KNS anti walk system in .154, my now .154 Bushy loves me! Yes and No!

OK, months after that drama, my friend and I go back to the range today to test fire the trigger fix and it is rock solid with no more failures what so ever, that is the trigger. Now I have an upper problem! I shot 60 rounds as fast as my finger could go and set the rifle down to cool. Well after a good fifteen minutes I pick up the rifle and she begins to short stroke and not cycle! WTF gomer??? So we checked the my mag and penetrator ammo through buddies Bushy and no problems. We pull the bolt to check gas rings, they were not set right, put it back in same thing. So my buddy pulls out his new LMT bolt /carrier group and we put it into my rig, still short stroking no cycle. We put both rifles back together after all this and his rigs runs and mine is shit!

So after I got home today, I took a can of compressed air and shot it through the reciever end gas port , duh, and got little to no air coming out of the barrel port. Now this upper has had only 500 rnds of penetrator ammo, give or take, and about 200-300 of the new wolf polymer ammo. Range confitions to day was cool early mornig with 35-45 gusting winds with light sand, but nothing was affected but my damn gas block. I tell ya, I was pissed, and if this were aSHTF situation I be a deadman. SOOOO, has anyone heard of or had this happen to a new upper with less than 1000 rnds in it? Do I need a fat boy or just send it back to Bushmaster to have it warrantied?
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 2:29:14 PM EST
By chance, is your front sight base either crooked, or held on with set screws, so that it may have shifted, blocking the port?



Lonny
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 2:34:27 PM EST
It is factory staked on Bushmaster!
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 2:58:19 PM EST
I had a shootin' buddy who's RRA started short-stroking after our fourth trip to the range. I disassembled it and checked it out. After not finding anything wrong, I wiped off the bolt, lubed it WELL with CLP, and it hasn't happened since.

Not saying you haven't cleaned yours, or that you didn't oil it properly, merely sharing an experience.
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 3:08:53 PM EST
Yes, we thought the same at the range. My friends Lmt and the Bushy carrier were lube pretty good. But, I cant firgure out why I get no air out of the barrel with the compressed air. Thanks for the post guys.
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 3:45:46 PM EST
90 posts and no one has had this trouble??? Help, please!!!
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 5:07:41 PM EST
Remove the front sight and see where the blockage is at, and what the blockage is made up of.
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 5:28:58 PM EST
I'm not the least bit familiar w/the Wolf polymer, but my first thought is that the "polymer" might have clogged the gas port. I understand that they brought the product out to eliminate fouling from the previous type, but that doesn't mean it gets the job done.I don't shoot the stuff in my ARs, only in my AKs, so this is just an off the top of my head thought.
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 6:26:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2004 6:31:02 PM EST by The_Friendly_Sponge]
Color me dense, but I don't see how a polymer coating on the steel casing could possibly block a gas port. First of all, the wolf bullet is an FMJ round with a thicker copper sheath than most rounds - no polymer to be found traveling down the barrel. Second, the gas travels back along the gas tube and acts on the bolt carrier - which is nowhere near the chamber where the poly-coated casing resides. I fail to see where wolf's poly-clad casings even comes into play with the gas system.

FWIW, I've fired over 1000+ rounds of the new wolf poly ammo and find it to work very well. No problems whatsoever in my M4gery.

All you can really do in this instance is disassemble the gas system and try to trace the blockage. Perhaps a call to your local plumber?
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 6:54:50 PM EST
I vote AGAINST the sight tower removal. As we all know, this is NOT an easy task. But, the main reason is becuase I think that everyone is forgetting that compressed air will NOT freely flow thru the gas system. Please remember that there is an orfice in the barrel that restricts flow.

I just think that he is assuming that air should freely flow thru the gas tube. With a normal rifle, air does NOT freely flow.
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 9:42:21 PM EST
Could there be a binding in the buffer tube, causing the malfunction? Buffer retainer dragging on the bottom of the carrier, or maybe the roll pin on the rubber bumper of the buffer has worked loose, and is dragging on the inside of the buffer tube. Purely speculation on my part, but it is something simple to check, versus disassembling the front end of the rifle.
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 10:52:01 PM EST
Two possibilities:

1) Your bolt is binding on something. Receiver, Trigger, Buffer assembly, Crud.
2) Your gas system is plugged. Clean out tube/port.
Link Posted: 8/2/2004 2:30:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Friendly_Sponge:
Color me dense, but I don't see how a polymer coating on the steel casing could possibly block a gas port. First of all, the wolf bullet is an FMJ round with a thicker copper sheath than most rounds - no polymer to be found traveling down the barrel. Second, the gas travels back along the gas tube and acts on the bolt carrier - which is nowhere near the chamber where the poly-coated casing resides. I fail to see where wolf's poly-clad casings even comes into play with the gas system.

FWIW, I've fired over 1000+ rounds of the new wolf poly ammo and find it to work very well. No problems whatsoever in my M4gery.

All you can really do in this instance is disassemble the gas system and try to trace the blockage. Perhaps a call to your local plumber?



Oh, so you mean that no polymer residue from previous rounds fired EVER gets on the bullet as it's fed into the chamber? OK. If you say so
Link Posted: 8/2/2004 6:19:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/2/2004 6:23:54 AM EST by SULACO2]

Originally Posted By shamayim:

Originally Posted By The_Friendly_Sponge:
Color me dense, but I don't see how a polymer coating on the steel casing could possibly block a gas port. First of all, the wolf bullet is an FMJ round with a thicker copper sheath than most rounds - no polymer to be found traveling down the barrel. Second, the gas travels back along the gas tube and acts on the bolt carrier - which is nowhere near the chamber where the poly-coated casing resides. I fail to see where wolf's poly-clad casings even comes into play with the gas system.

FWIW, I've fired over 1000+ rounds of the new wolf poly ammo and find it to work very well. No problems whatsoever in my M4gery.

All you can really do in this instance is disassemble the gas system and try to trace the blockage. Perhaps a call to your local plumber?



Oh, so you mean that no polymer residue from previous rounds fired EVER gets on the bullet as it's fed into the chamber? OK. If you say so



That may very well be. But, there considerably more potentilly damaging/gas port clogging things, than polymer coating in the bore of a rifle and that's using Non-polymer coated ammo. I know after a few hundred rounds, my bore is filthy (considering/relatively) and has larger debris in it that a few scrapings from a polymer coat. I've never tried Wolff only XM193. So while what your posing could happen, I doubt the scrapings of polymer that a bullet would pick up while chambering are big/considerable enough to cause this malf. If the polymer coat was going to cause this malf. there'd be a lot more malf's of this type w/ and w/o ammo that's poly-coated.

The fact that your cold compressed air can't penetrate your tube means very little. The pressure in a compressor/can doesn't measure when compared to the super heated gases and the velocity its travelling at coming out of that gas tube, in the opposite direction. There are other, and much more common causes of short stroking than "clogged" gas tubes. Out of spec gas ports. Low grade ammo.
Are both more common culprits than a clogged gas tube. if your convinced pull it out its easy. YOu coul've done that at the shoot. Have you tried CLP down the tube to sea if it runs out of the port?


/S2
Link Posted: 8/2/2004 6:26:57 AM EST
Ok! Called Jim this morning at Bushmaster and he thought it might be a loose carrier key! Did an in house pressure test he ask me to do and the carrier is good. Called him back and the upper is now RMA. I am not sure if it is polymer that has gummed things up or what, but I did notice a lot more junk in the barrel after shooting the wolf ammo, the stuff is nasty!

So the drama continues. I will keep a line on this thread so I can update as I go! Iam still floored that no one else has had this trouble before. Just amazed! Thanks for the replies.
Link Posted: 8/2/2004 6:32:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/2/2004 6:34:50 AM EST by DaveS]
Get your can of WD and spray a shot down your gas tube. If it doesn't flow freely into your barrel......well, it's the start of something painful.....messin' with the FS/gas block.

Dave S

SULACO2 pegged the way to check and beat me to it.
Link Posted: 8/2/2004 6:49:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/2/2004 6:50:35 AM EST by SULACO2]

Originally Posted By DaveS:
Get your can of WD and spray a shot down your gas tube. If it doesn't flow freely into your barrel......well, it's the start of something painful.....messin' with the FS/gas block.

Dave S

SULACO2 pegged the way to check and beat me to it.



Cool...

If you just have to remove the tube a punch will get the roll pin out easily. Start there and check your tube. Just slide the tube rearward, out of the front sight assy, and then fwd, out of the receiver. Note: this will not work w/ older Fatboy tubes. Those are "stepped" too far rearward to allow them to be slid rearward enough, to clear the front assy. Those will require the removal of the front Assy's.

If you have to remove that front sight base 1st, go to autozone or the like, hit those pins w/ PB Blaster, a rust penetrator/penetrating lube, and let it sit overnight. It isn't always needed, but if it is, its much better to have done it, and not need it than vice versa. Use Cupped tip pin punches. Brownell's has them. You don't have to, IF your pins want to play, and you hold them steady. If you pins are stubborn, you will mangle them and your front site assy. as you pound and they slip.

/S2
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 5:28:50 AM EST
Welp, me upper ez in the shop! Now I am just waiting to see if I get a phone call asking for a CC # for the F%@kup I must have caused! Will keep you gents posted!
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 10:51:33 AM EST
Bushmaster is good. They will take care of you.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 2:32:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By USMINUTeMAN:
Welp, me upper ez in the shop! Now I am just waiting to see if I get a phone call asking for a CC # for the F%@kup I must have caused! Will keep you gents posted!


They won't call you, they'll just fix it and ship it back.

Very little worries, although they are a "big" corp, so little details do get missed sometimes. I hade a canted FSB on a new upper, they fixed it as always.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 4:25:48 PM EST
I sent an upper to Bushmaster once because it wouldn't group for CRAP regardless of who fired it...

I got it back about 6 weeks later with a ticket explaining that the threads on my non-Bushmaster front sight post weren't to spec and they wiggled a bit. Along with the ticket was RECEIPT in the box for $15 charged to my credit card... The REALLY funny thing was that I didn't give them my credit card, and hadn't bought anything from Bushmaster in 2 years!

I don't disagree that return shipping was my due, but they shoulda called and let me know first.
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 12:10:20 PM EST
Welp, It was not the upper! It was a bad carrier key. Now in my first post I stated that I used my buddies new LMT CARRIER in my Bushy and it still failed to cycle. Welllllll, we did some checking and found out that the LMT carrier fits way too tight in the bushmaster upper. Mater of fact, his bushy stopped cycling like mine not to long ago and we found that the slightest amount of sand or dust along with the tight tolerences is what caused the trouble with his carrier. Bushmaster says I have a "D" marked on the carrier and that it is not one of theirs. I bought this upper at a gun show brand new but did no realize that the carrier they put in was not Bushmasters. Soooo, its going to cost me $50.00 to fix the carrier and ship my upper back to me! Damn, but at least it is squared away. Anyone know who made my carrier?
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 6:50:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By USMINUTeMAN:
Anyone know who made my carrier?



DPMS ?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 4:09:27 PM EST
Still not fixed and I am to mad to even say anything! $50 and 3 week wait and it comes back with the same damn problem. Screw it
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:51:05 PM EST
Damn, now that is a horror story. Sounds like you've been hosed out of $50. BM is usually pretty good about things, but sometimes people have brain cramps and don't do things by the numbers. Did you ever check the gas system? Spray something down the gas tube, carb cleaner maybe even brake cleaner. It should run freely out the gas port and then down the barrel. Don't assume BM actually checked the gas parts. They probably saw the bolt, assumed, and there you go. Call 'em, say it still won't run, and see what they do. Did they return your original carrier? Maybe you can send theirs back and get a refund? Try m193 or the 855? (62 grain stuff), if the Gas system's OK. Don't give up.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:07:41 PM EST
Wow, I have pretty much the same combo. No problems here at all.


Hope they get it fixed.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 10:33:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 10:37:12 AM EST by USMINUTeMAN]
OH SHIT! THIS WAS MY FUK UP!

Well, it was not the upper at all! , NO it was my stupid azz! I bought a chrome silicon recoil spring from Superior Shooting a while back and just found out yesterday that others are having the same problem BECAUSE the spring is too long for CAR stock weapons! So, I cut off 4 coils of the spring go to the range today and I cant get the damn thing to stop cycling! She refuses to FTF or FTE, she now laughs at me when I cuss and she'll eat anything I give her!!!!

Boy I had to suck some ass a minute ago when I replied to Bushmaster aopolgizing for my stupidity! Good thing I did not say much yesterday! I've learned that when I get pissed I can not think for shit! So I had a few beers and chilled out and thought about the whole situation and bingo it dawned on me in my drukin state of being to check the damn recoil spring!

SOOOO, Here is my public apology to all and especially Bushmaster, I am very sorry for my actions! I just love my Bushy and I want her to run like a champ {snickering coming from the gunsafe} SHUTUP YOU!! YOU GOT ME IN THIS!! {straight out laughter from the gun safe now} BEEEYATCH, SHUTUP OR I'LL FEED YA WOLF AMMO NEXT TIME!!!!

***Hi, my name USMINUTeMANID and I approve this message!***
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:39:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 2:40:19 PM EST by Unknown1Sailor]
LOL

{homer simpson} "Doh!" {/homer simpson}
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 3:00:42 PM EST


{homer simpson} "Doh!" {/homer simpson}




HEHEHEHE

+1

­Glad to hear you got it squared away!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:16:38 PM EST
Stupid Spring
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:04:26 PM EST
phew! I was almost going to buy a chrome-silicon recoil spring... glad i didn't...

i bought an LMT spring and H-buffer and called it good :-)
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 6:20:56 AM EST
I just love a story with a happy ending :)
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