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Posted: 8/17/2004 4:51:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 5:02:57 PM EST by warhound]
Is this possible? I say no way in hell, but some one is telling me that he can hit a prairie dog at 200 plus yards away with open sites. A prairie dog is only about 6" tall. I can hardly see them let alone shoot one with open sites.

edit to fix title.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 4:53:05 PM EST
Doesn't MOA mean 1" at 100 yards?

Link Posted: 8/17/2004 4:55:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 5:01:30 PM EST by warhound]

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Doesn't MOA mean 1" at 100 yards?



Not sure, how about a 1 inch group at 200 yards.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 4:56:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:06:54 PM EST
Unless he is a regular at Camp Perry and is using 1/4x1/4 NM rear sights and NM front blade, quite unlikely although not impossible.

With magnified optics, no problem. With standard irons, hmmmm....
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:41:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 5:41:57 PM EST by M4-newbie]

Originally Posted By warhound:
Is this possible? I say no way in hell, but some one is telling me that he can hit a prairie dog at 200 plus yards away with open sites.



I can do that! What's the big deal?

It may take a few mags though...
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:46:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By warhound:
.....he can hit a prairie dog at 200 plus yards away with open sites. A prairie dog is only about 6" tall.....


Shooting a 6" group at 200 yards is 3MOA.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:54:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:07:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By bigbore:
A prarie dog at 200yds, with an A2 and iron sights would be a piece of cake.




Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:16:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By bigbore:
A prarie dog at 200yds, with an A2 and iron sights would be a piece of cake.



Maybe for you! I couldn't see something that small at that range, but my eyes aint so good, and I'm not yet 30, my vision ahead in the next 10 years for me looks troublesome.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:17:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 6:18:10 PM EST by bigbore]
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:34:55 PM EST
6" at 200 yds all day long with open sights. 1" at 200yds, I'd have to see that in person to believe it.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:41:00 PM EST
... (1) MOA minute-of-angle is 1/60 of a degree and is in conflict with your 0.5" @ 200 yards. Now just where did I leave my trigonometry algorithms book you give you the correct delta?
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:42:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By warhound:
Is this possible? I say no way in hell, but some one is telling me that he can hit a prairie dog at 200 plus yards away with open sites. A prairie dog is only about 6" tall. I can hardly see them let alone shoot one with open sites.

edit to fix title.



.5" (or 1/4 MOA) at 200 is not possible unsupported with open sights.

For realistic expectations, see NRA hi-power X-ring dimensions.

Now, 6" at 200yds is VERY possible.

And a small rodent hit by a .223 does not require a headshot to kill...

Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:43:33 PM EST
Unless your friend is Carlos Hathcock I say Big Time BS.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:57:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By model927:
Unless your friend is Carlos Hathcock I say Big Time BS.


+1
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 7:14:30 PM EST
I cant shoot that good even with optics
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 7:55:10 PM EST
I'd believe it when I saw it...


Link Posted: 8/17/2004 9:55:00 PM EST
damn kids and their aimbots
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 9:58:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 9:59:33 PM EST by chewbacca]
.5 at 200 yards using irons, I say:



ETA: I was looking for the BS flag...
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 11:25:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 11:26:54 PM EST by ch139]
It could be done, but more than likely not on purpose.

Ya gotta remember, just about everybody on the net is a ¼ MOA shooter. In real life there’s a lot of people like me; their bullets would never hit the ground if it wasn’t for gravity.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 6:09:34 AM EST
I think a lot of people are forgetting that thay may be 6 inches tall, but thay are only about 2-4 inches wide. I dont think anyone could hit that a 200 yards open site. With optics thats a whole new ball game.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 6:57:35 AM EST
At 200 yards, the front sight on a standard AR is something like 4 MOA (8 inches).
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 7:02:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By warhound:
I think a lot of people are forgetting that thay may be 6 inches tall, but thay are only about 2-4 inches wide. I dont think anyone could hit that a 200 yards open site. .



I know several people who can (with irons) IF they could see them. - and yes one of them shot against Carlos Hathcock at Camp Perry.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 10:02:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By chewbacca:
.5 at 200 yards using irons, I say:



ETA: I was looking for the BS flag...



Link Posted: 8/18/2004 10:06:55 AM EST
Of course there is a big difference between hitting a praire dog at 200yds and MOA at 200 yds.

I've never tried to hit a PD at 200 yds with open sights, but give me enough ammo and I'm sure I could do it to.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 10:07:55 AM EST
Hitting a prairie dog with iron sights at 200 yards... Doable and fairly easy as LONG as the the prairie dog can be seen.

Sinking shots into .5 inch at 200 yards with Iron Sights.... bullshit.

Semper Fidelis
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 10:40:35 AM EST
i'm a pretty mediocre shot, but i'm pretty sure a 4x6" target ain't that hard to hit from a good kneel.

we're talking 2-3 moa fer crissakes!
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 11:16:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By USMC_2674:
Hitting a prairie dog with iron sights at 200 yards... Doable and fairly easy as LONG as the the prairie dog can be seen.

Sinking shots into .5 inch at 200 yards with Iron Sights.... bullshit.

Semper Fidelis



+1

200 yards is a chip shot in the world of prarie vermin.....with a good rest and a little time, I'm sure not going to rule it out, as far as hitting something smaller than a penny at 200 yards.......but the sun shines on a dog's ass every now and then
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 1:45:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mrrogers1:

Originally Posted By chewbacca:
.5 at 200 yards using irons, I say:



ETA: I was looking for the BS flag...



members.cox.net/mrrogers1/Board%20Pics/BS_meter.gif



Link Posted: 8/18/2004 1:53:09 PM EST
Prairie dog:

Link Posted: 8/18/2004 1:56:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By bigbore:
A prarie dog at 200yds, with an A2 and iron sights would be a piece of cake.



that is what i was thinking, i regularly hit bowling pins at 200 easily, 20 inch stock bushy
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 2:41:07 PM EST
To FOREST there is a big difference in a round 1000 yd target and a prairie dog that blends into the back ground,Hathcock won the 1965 perry match shooting at those distances and I beleive the 7 people you mentioned could but I dont think this kids friend is one of them.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:26:03 PM EST
I was going to say there are people consistently putting rounds into the 10 ring at 1000yds with open sights so for 200 yds and 1/2 MOA why not...
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:39:10 PM EST
I had Compass Lake build me a Service Rifle Upper (DCM/CMP) with a Krieger barrel and 1/4" sights. With it. off sand bags at 100 yards, shooting Black Hills Blue Box 68gr (Hornady JHP), I can hold just under 3/4" shooting at a NRA 200 yard reduced 100 yard target. IMHO, the trick is the sand bag, or otherwise decent rest, and a target you can see. I'd like to think the 3/4" @ 100 would equal 1.5" @ 200, but only at a target I could reasonably see, i.e. an NRA 200 yard target. The black on that target is a bit bigger than a P Dog. Now, if I had a few shots at the little bugger.........I'd think I'd miss before he got his wits together, but he'd wonder WTF is going on..

Bill
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:44:11 PM EST
people need to stop building m4geries and start shooting highpower.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 6:49:58 PM EST
Prairie Dog at 200 yards is (as others have said) feasible, provided it can be seen.
I've hit bowling pins at 200 yards with a "Rifle No.4 Mk2" using Federal Classic 180gr. 'Hi-Shok' .303British ammuntion. I did not hit them 100% of the time.

One-half m.o.a. results at 200 yards is theoretically possible with a 3m.o.a. rifle. But your weirdometer would max out and start playing the theme from Twilight Zone.

Here's how I think it could happen.
Your rifle spits out bullets in a cone of probability measuring about 3 m.o.a. You would be lucky enough to have your barrel pointed in such a way that the random path of the current bullet would curve towards the point of impact of the previous shot.
Your first shot is the "center shot". On your next shot you squeeze the trigger while your barrel is pointed a little left of the first shot, but due to dumb luck, the path of the bullet curves to the right and makes a hole on the target that touches the hole of the previous shot. On your next shot you squeeze the trigger while the barrel is pointed a little right of your first shot, but the path of this bullet curves a little to the left and it makes a hole that touches the previous two holes made on the target. Consider the velocity variations from shot to shot and add vertical deviations to horizontal deviations.
Three shots putting holes on paper that touch each other due to environmental factors, random aiming errors and dumb luck.

Would you like to try hitting a 12ounce aluminum can of Coca-Cola at 300 yards? I've done it with a scoped rifle, but, again, not 100% of the time.

Your mileage may vary. Good luck.

~Craig
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 7:02:04 PM EST
I know a guy I would cover all bets for a one shot hit on a praire dog at 200 yards, with open sights.
I'd most likely have to walk a couple out to do it my self.
With a decent varmit gun and 12X glass piece o' cake. I'd really hope to find something out twice that distance.



mark
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 10:16:25 PM EST
Extend your front sight out about 80 feet and wear really thick glasses.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 2:50:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
people need to stop building m4geries and start shooting highpower.



Why?? Is seems that most here can shoot very well with their M4geries or whatever they have.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:43:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrCraigCraig:

Would you like to try hitting a 12ounce aluminum can of Coca-Cola at 300 yards? I've done it with a scoped rifle, but, again, not 100% of the time.

Your mileage may vary. Good luck.

~Craig



i don't think i could miss with a scped rifle at 300
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 5:28:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By mongo001:

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
people need to stop building m4geries and start shooting highpower.



Why?? Is seems that most here can shoot very well with their M4geries or whatever they have.hr


yeah, they totally 0wn the 50yrd range.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 5:43:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By mongo001:

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
people need to stop building m4geries and start shooting highpower.



Why?? Is seems that most here can shoot very well with their M4geries or whatever they have.hr


Yeah, They could all make Marksman. heMarksman Less than 84%
Sharpshooter 84% to 88.9%
Expert 89% to 93.9%
Master 94% to 96.9%
High Master 97%
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:20:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
that'd be about 1/2 MOA.

Possible? Maybe by Tippie or Hercules, but not by me



Wouldnt it be 1/4 MOA?
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 9:41:08 AM EST
Standard targets are a blur to me at 100yds, so I'd need a nice scope for 200 myself.
(yes I wear glasses)
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:04:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:29:28 AM EST
I think you guys have pretty much beaten this one to death.

As said, there is a big difference between hitting a prarie dog at 200yds and shooting 1/4MOA at 200. Thats all this thread comes down to.

A wise man once said..... there are 1/2MOA rifles, 1/2MOA ammo, and 1/2MOA shooters. Getting all three of those lined up shot after shot, consistently, just doesnt happen all that often.



Of course, when it does, its a beautiful thang.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:59:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By NEtracker:
Standard targets are a blur to me at 100yds, so I'd need a nice scope for 200 myself.
(yes I wear glasses)



Another one who doesn't know how to shoot with iron sights.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:59:51 AM EST
There are LOTS of people who can clean a 200 yard Highpower target (My best is a 99, but I'm working on it). That's a 7" (3.5 moa) 10 ring. The better of those folks can clean it with a high X-count in the 3" X-ring. That is about what it would take to hit a Prairie Rat on purpose at 200 yards.

That said, the problem is SEEING the little rat at that distance. Aiming at a 13" black circle is a lot easy than aiming at a 3" x 9" tan-colored fuss ball. Stand that little bugger up in front of the center of a taget bull and he's history. You don't have to see him to be able to hit him. If he's standing out in a field he wouldn't offer a very discernable aiming point. Maybe you could try a "Mound Hold".
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 12:22:23 PM EST
I once saw my Paw-In-Law snap shoot a groundhog off a boulder at 50 yards with a .25 Baretta. That does not mean a .25 Baretta shoots anything close to MOA, just that it was a damn lucky shot or it sure as hell was not the groundhog's lucky day.

Having been on several prairie dog hunts, the young ones are really stupid, they will sit out all day while you blast away at them. If you call it sport, you can eventually shoot one at 200 yards with a 10/22 if you desire. It is not that big of a challenge.

At any rate, consistant , repeatable 1/2 MOA on paper with any iron sighted firearm (not locked in a Ransome rest or something similar) is highly unlikely in my book. But I will stop just short of calling BS.

Link Posted: 8/19/2004 1:32:04 PM EST
I shot a small butterfly at 100yds once.... of course I had a heavy barrel .223 with an 8-32x44 scope on it sitting on a bipod and a sandbag. With that rifle I could do a 'dawg at 200yds no problem. However that shot with irons.... Is your friend in athens right now? He should be, that would be world class olympic shooting.
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