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Posted: 12/17/2003 6:57:30 PM EDT
I am a newbee to this forum, but not to ARs. Is anybody familiar with the .50 conversion? I saw one at the Fort Myers gun show last Saturday. The unit was a complete upper with a short .50 barrel. The cartridge looks like a .45 Colt on steroids, although it has a smaller .223 sized rim. It uses 10 round single stack magazines that look a lot like .223 20 round mags. The price was about one grand and I can supply dealer info. to anybody interested.

I would really like to see a test article on this unit. Anybody??
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:38:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 7:40:21 PM EDT by DsrtEgl50]
I think what you are referring to is the .50 Beowulf from [url=http://alexanderarms.com/]Alexander Arms[/url]. The rebated case rim is the size of a 7.62x39 cartridge so that the 7.62 bolt could be used. ETA: [url=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=50+beowulf]Google[/url] will lead you to many many [url=http://www.gunblast.com/50Beowulf.htm]articles and/or reviews[/url]. Jonathan
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 4:50:07 AM EDT
Sounds more like the LW.499 if it has a 10 round mag.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 5:50:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AGEII: I am a newbee to this forum, but not to ARs. Is anybody familiar with the .50 conversion? I saw one at the Fort Myers gun show last Saturday. The unit was a complete upper with a short .50 barrel. The cartridge looks like a .45 Colt on steroids, although it has a smaller .223 sized rim. It uses 10 round single stack magazines that look a lot like .223 20 round mags. The price was about one grand and I can supply dealer info. to anybody interested. I would really like to see a test article on this unit. Anybody??
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Never saw anything like that. Maybe someone has some info on it. BTW Welcome to the board! [coffee]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 5:59:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HipFiredGun: Sounds more like the LW.499 if it has a 10 round mag.
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Yep, it the mag it used was a straight box mag holding ten rounds then it does sound like the Leitner-Wise .499. [IMG]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=12554[/IMG] [size=1]This is a member's 499LW rifle, can't remember which member though...[/size=1] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=15134[/img] [size=1]This photo was provided by HipFiredGun 499LW DMR[/size=1] Or you could look at the 458 SOCOM....using unmodified USGI mags: [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=8747[/img] [size=1]This photo is configured similar to mine, except I use an Aimpoint with an ARMS Cantilever mount[/size=1]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 7:22:37 PM EDT
It was .50 caliber, not .499 or .45. The Beauwolf discussion and ammo description sound right, but they don't show pictures, give prices or discuss magazines. Oh well, sooner or later one of the magazines will review the unit. Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 9:38:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AGEII: It was .50 caliber, not .499 or .45. The Beauwolf discussion and ammo description sound right, but they don't show pictures,
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[img]http://www.gunblast.com/images/50Beowulf/Mvc-005f-sm.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.gunblast.com/images/50Beowulf/Mvc-001f.jpg[/img] [img]http://a1460.g.akamai.net/f/1460/1339/6h/www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/22/57/33/i225733sq01.jpg[/img]
give prices
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$600-1000 depending on what you are looking at and from whom.
or discuss magazines.
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Standard 20 round AR mags hold 7. 30 rounders hold 12.
Oh well, sooner or later one of the magazines will review the unit. Thanks guys.
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Many have already. Jonathan
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 10:09:30 PM EDT
Here's a thought for you... Have you ever read a bad review in a gun rag? I don't trust a word they say. Instead, I'm more likely to trust reviews from consumers who have tried the product.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 4:03:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha: Here's a thought for you... Have you ever read a bad review in a gun rag? I don't trust a word they say. Instead, I'm more likely to trust reviews from consumers who have tried the product.
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I agree. [coffee]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:16:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 5:19:53 AM EDT by SHIVAN]
Originally Posted By AGEII: It was .50 caliber, not .499 or .45. The Beauwolf discussion and ammo description sound right, but they don't show pictures, give prices or discuss magazines. Oh well, sooner or later one of the magazines will review the unit. Thanks guys.
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.499 is .001 from .500.......... Only one of the bigbore uppers using a straight box mag for 10rd capacity is the Leitner-Wise rifle. Fort Myers, FL?? Could have been [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=165460&w=searchPop]Bandit-ExcaliberArms[/url] here on board. He sells the Leitner-Wise units -- yep .499.....and from Palm City, Florida...... [url]http://www.sr-25.com/new.htm#LW499[/url] He even refers to it as a "Mini-50"....[;)]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:18:29 AM EDT
Ok, Well if you are looking for an endorsement for the .50 Beowulf from someone who owns own, look no farther. I own one and it is the best gun I have ever shot. It is FUN and also quite useful for pretty much anything under 200M (it is still useful out to about 400-600M, but requires quite a bit of bullet drop correction) At 100M I can keep things within 1MOA and recoil is can be tamed quite nicely using a recoil pad. The effects of this round are devastating, because it is so "fat" it delivers it's energy rather than over penetrating targets like most rifle rounds(spinners are very entertaining, as it takes a while for them to "spin down" so you can take another shot ;) I have heard on this board that Beowulf is great with deer, dropping them where they stand vs. chasing blood into the thick. I just got some of the 334gr. full metal jackets but have not had a chance to shoot with them yet (These should provide sufficient penetration into just about anything "hard") The round I usually use is the 325gr hollow point which are right around $1 a piece (no worse than match grade 30-06) and like I said these rounds will hold 1MOA at 100M. If anyone has any questions about Beowulf I would be happy to answer. RGUARD
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:24:37 AM EDT
Haha......he was even at the Ft. Meyer's show on the 13th and 14th.... You saw a 499LWR. [bounce]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 6:49:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 7:45:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 9:55:29 AM EDT by rguard]
[red]I don't doubt that the .499 is a great weapon but you are not completely accurate on your assessment of the Beowulf, please see my comments inline [/red]
Originally Posted By Bandit-ExcaliburArms: Guilty as charged, I was there. The L-W 15.499 has several advantages over the Beowulf. First and foremost, the weapon has been thoroughly proven by military testing. [red] Beowulf was tested with the US military and so far reports have been very favorable[/red] Redesigns and enhancements found to be necessary during the testing have been accomplished. The Coast Guard has ordered 8000 standard rifles, and is buying a number of specialty rifles in the same calibur. The round is longer, thereby allowing for greater powder capacity, and greater velocity, which equals more energy downrange. The round is the same length as a .223, to enhance feeding capability [red] as can plainly be seen in the picture [img]www.gunblast.com/images/50Beowulf/Mvc-005f-sm.jpg [/img] Beowulf is also the same size as a .223 and the brass is not even close to full and so more powder could be added if you dare [/red] . The bolt and carrier are manufactured by Lewis Machine & Tool, the same design Lewis is now selling for .223, through MSTN. Advantages include greater strength, dual extractor springs, greater reliability, etc. [red] Beowulf uses the SAME bolt as a 7.62x39mm and so MANY MANY high quality bolts are readily available [/red] L-W sells "green" (no lead) frangible ammo (good for indoor ranges that don't allow solid .50 cal. bullets), hunting ammo, and has many more loads on the way. [red] Beowulf is a newer round and more weights/styles are coming [/red] If you compared ammo prices at the gun show, you would see a significant price difference between the L-W and Beowulf ammo. [red] yes, the significant difference is that .499 ammo is usually more expensive than Beowulf ammo of similar weight [/red] The L-W includes an integral muzzle compensator. No extra charge. [red] no argument there, I wish AA would offer one for Beowulf as is really needs one. However there is a 24" barrel that has one and there is "no extra charge" for it at that length [/red] The L-W is .499 caliber, not .50 cal. 001" may not seem significant, but if certain Congresspersons have their way, all .50 cal rifles will be banned. [red] Not so long as we remain diligent with our congressmen, with that attitude, you can think the AW ban will come back and ALL AR's will be illegal [/red] Think about it. I strongly believe in the future of the product, and have become the Florida distributor and a factory authorized service center. We offer dealer and LEO pricing to qualified buyers. I have shot the rifles extensively, and got a lot of feedback from customers. One buyer has burned a lot of ammo through his L-W upper mounted on his M16 lower. He loves it. More info and pictures on my web site.
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[red] Let me finish the way I started, I believe in the .499 and am a big bore fan in general, but don't whip out the fuzzy math just to make one gun sound better than another, I understand you are trying to sell a product, but keep the facts straight and I am sure there will be enough buyers for everyone [/red] RGUARD
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 8:13:20 AM EDT
Yup, it was Excaliber Arms, I have their card. So I guess I was admiring the Leitner-Wise .499. It looked good, I would like to try one out and get a lot more ammo (also reloading) & magazine info. Bandit, will this thing work properly on a late (1993) Colt preban lower? What about pin size, etc. etc.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 8:15:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 9:04:50 AM EDT
Let me state for the record that there are NO Beowulf's in military service. A number of units have evaluated the weapon but none have taken them up. Further, the military are prohibited at this stage from purchasing and deploying this weapon. Sorry to disappoint you but this is the case. Whilst there may well be Beowulf's in private ownership, this is not authorized or official.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 9:38:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 9:39:46 AM EDT by rguard]
I did not mean to start the princeton debating society here, just stating the facts as I knew them. I am not saying I am the book of knowledge on Beowulf, these are just the facts as I have heard them. If I am incorrect about the current state of military deployment of Beowulf, I apologize and again, these are just the facts that have come my way. I do not Sell Beowulf's but I did do my homework before buying one, and I was just trying to point out the differences that I saw vs. the similarities. I don't mean to cause a ruckus, actually I was more trying to point out how similar these great weapons are. This is basically just like the PC vs. Mac thing, it's just personal preference for the most part. My $.02 RGUARD
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 9:47:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AGEII: I would like to try one out and get a lot more ammo (also reloading)
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Sorry. This is one of the biggest problems with the system. It is NOT reloadable. Thus the reason I chose the .458 SOCOM instead.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 9:51:53 AM EDT
Beowulf is a 7.62x39mm bolthead not .223 Where are the reloading dies and components for the .499 LW ?? They aren't there This is a reason I got a Beowulf.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 9:54:08 AM EDT
As we heard as of last week, LW will be launching loading dies at SHOT Show. We have a set of Beowulf dies but they don't support the LW case correctly. We like to check optimum performance, hence our interest. BTW, we understand that the reason LW is entering the reloading market is because customers are now reloading the ammunition anyway. We have also heard that one group is in the process of launching a 6 shot revolver in 499!
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 10:18:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 10:31:29 AM EDT
There is also a .50 BMG conversion, made by L&G. They describe it here [url]http://faxworldcom.com/lgweap/ad_sheets/50bmg.htm[/url], though unfortunately photos are from middle distance and don't show much detail.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 11:10:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rguard:
Originally Posted By Bandit-ExcaliburArms: Guilty as charged, I was there. The L-W 15.499 has several advantages over the Beowulf. First and foremost, the weapon has been thoroughly proven by military testing. [red] Beowulf was tested with the US military and so far reports have been very favorable[/red] [blue]They may have done some tests, but these were reportedly not that extensive.[/blue] Redesigns and enhancements found to be necessary during the testing have been accomplished. The Coast Guard has ordered 8000 standard rifles, and is buying a number of specialty rifles in the same calibur. The round is longer, thereby allowing for greater powder capacity, and greater velocity, which equals more energy downrange. The round is the same length as a .223, to enhance feeding capability [red] as can plainly be seen in the picture [url]www.gunblast.com/images/50Beowulf/Mvc-005f-sm.jpg [/url] Beowulf is also the same size as a .223 and the brass is not even close to full and so more powder could be added if you dare [/red].[blue]I believe of the three big bores {458 SOCOM, 50 Beowulf and 499 LW} the LW does carry the best ballistics. However, the 458 SOCOM will launch a 500gr projectile sub and supersonic...[;D][/blue] The bolt and carrier are manufactured by Lewis Machine & Tool, the same design Lewis is now selling for .223, through MSTN. Advantages include greater strength, dual extractor springs, greater reliability, etc. [red] Beowulf uses the SAME bolt as a 7.62x39mm and so MANY MANY high quality bolts are readily available [/red] [blue]From the maker of many big bore rifles, Tromix, that have been running for many years in full auto and other platforms the bolt redesign is a bunch of smoke and mirrors bullshit that is very unnecessary. FWIW, the 458 SOCOM's that I know of have had no issues with the bolt.[/blue] L-W sells "green" (no lead) frangible ammo (good for indoor ranges that don't allow solid .50 cal. bullets), hunting ammo, and has many more loads on the way. [red] Beowulf is a newer round and more weights/styles are coming [/red] [blue]This is a function of the uber-popular 500S&W which shares the same projectiles. This is not because of the marginally popular Beowulf. Sorry.[/blue] If you compared ammo prices at the gun show, you would see a significant price difference between the L-W and Beowulf ammo. [red] yes, the significant difference is that .499 ammo is usually more expensive than Beowulf ammo of similar weight. [/red] [blue]This is false from a "factory ammo" to "factory ammo" comparison. Where the Beowulf will gain the edge -- reloading. Where the 458 SOCOM gains the edge over both is reloading. The LW ammo was about $2 less per Beowulf box initially -- that may have changed though.[/blue] The L-W includes an integral muzzle compensator. No extra charge. [red] no argument there, I wish AA would offer one for Beowulf as is really needs one. However there is a 24" barrel that has one and there is "no extra charge" for it at that length [/red] [blue]Honestly, from most of the reports I hear of with "brakes" they don't do a whole lot in the large bore gas operated guns, except for make a lot more noise, and spray. Recoil is subjective and I guess if you are recoil adverse you'd like any help you can get.[/blue] The L-W is .499 caliber, not .50 cal. 001" may not seem significant, but if certain Congresspersons have their way, all .50 cal rifles will be banned. [red] Not so long as we remain diligent with our congressmen, with that attitude, you can think the AW ban will come back and ALL AR's will be illegal [/red] Think about it. I strongly believe in the future of the product, and have become the Florida distributor and a factory authorized service center. We offer dealer and LEO pricing to qualified buyers. I have shot the rifles extensively, and got a lot of feedback from customers. One buyer has burned a lot of ammo through his L-W upper mounted on his M16 lower. He loves it. More info and pictures on my web site.
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[red] Let me finish the way I started, I believe in the .499 and am a big bore fan in general, but don't whip out the fuzzy math just to make one gun sound better than another, I understand you are trying to sell a product, but keep the facts straight and I am sure there will be enough buyers for everyone [/red] RGUARD
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Some of your "facts" are not facts at all. You'd do well to take some of your own advice. Leave the marketing angles to AA and LW. I know this may sound horrible, but even though I am 458 SOCOM through and through that L-W HITRON or whatever on Bandit's site is calling my name..... [peep]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 11:27:50 AM EDT
Socom is an excellent weapon and the quality cannot be faulted, the HITRON is awesome and allows multi-caliber (223, 458, 50 Beo, 7.62 x 39, 50AE, 6.8 x 43?) choices by just changing barrels and if necessary, bolt heads. The LW bolt will run in the Beo and would be a good addition.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 11:56:45 AM EDT
Ok, truce already You are not getting my point, I am not saying anything about one "big-bore" being better than the rest, my point was actually to the contrary, saying that all were actually very similar (I use Beowulf as an example because it is the only one I own) Yes, Balistics and reloading are not exactally the same from one to the next but each has it's merrits and drawbacks, all I was going for was that there is no clear "better" gun. It comes down to what you want, what you will use it for and how much you want to pay. I am going to go sit in the corner now and take my "time-out" :p RGUARD.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 7:20:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rguard: ...my point was actually to the contrary, saying that all were actually very similar...
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Yes, I get it now.... The two "superior" traits I like about the 458 SOCOM uppers: 1. Totally custom....made to your spec from the ground up. Whatever you need or want you will get -- within reason. 2. 500gr and 600gr projectiles in SP, HP, solid, tungsten core, etc....subsonic and supersonic 500gr.....yum-yum. Other than those two things, they are within a whisker of each other.....really.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 4:32:20 PM EDT
Boy oh boy, I'll leave the debate behind and just sat GET ONE!!!!! WOOOOHOOOOO, just got back from my first trip to the range with my Beowulf. Man, what a gun! I am going to have fun with this one. The only minor disagreement I have with anything that has been said, is that I am NOT going to get a recoil pad. Yes, it kicks like a small mule, and yes a pad would help, but until I get the reloading press setup, I want a little pain to minimize my shooting time. If there wasn't some pain, I would spend an insane amount of money on amunition!! Anyway, if you didn't get the idea, I love it. Pic's as soon as I get all my accy's on it. Doc
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 7:15:06 PM EDT
You know what I [b]really[/b] love about this thread? Shivan and HipFiredGun are actually conversing and agreeing, and finding merit in the other's preferred system [;)] Must be the season, I feel Christmassy all over, guess I need to go shoot something In all seriousness, it is refreshing to read the fair and honest replies (and the tag team you two executed on the shotgun afficionado - there is a place for that weapon, but as we as stated, these rounds were developed for those instances where the shotgun is NOT the answer of choice) Happy Holidays all y'all M
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 3:47:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DocGP: Boy oh boy, I'll leave the debate behind and just sat GET ONE!!!!! WOOOOHOOOOO, just got back from my first trip to the range with my Beowulf. Man, what a gun! I am going to have fun with this one. The only minor disagreement I have with anything that has been said, is that I am NOT going to get a recoil pad. Yes, it kicks like a small mule, and yes a pad would help, but until I get the reloading press setup, I want a little pain to minimize my shooting time. If there wasn't some pain, I would spend an insane amount of money on amunition!! Anyway, if you didn't get the idea, I love it. Pic's as soon as I get all my accy's on it. Doc
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Glad to hear you are having fun with your Beowulf :). What rounds are you using? Have you shot at anything besides paper? I just got some 334gr full metal jackets but have not managed to get out and try them yet (they are just sitting there staring at me :o). I too have considered removing the recoil pad to better "feel" the respect this round deserves (I think I will leave it on when I shoot but remove it to "initiate" my friends ;) Well happy shooting and welcome to the family ;) RGUARD
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 5:10:10 PM EDT
Rguard, I shot 26rds of the 335gr HP. Still have to figure out what I want to do for sights. Mostly paper, but popped 3 bleach jugs full of water (really quite spectacular). Yep, sore shoulder today, but one of those pains that I LOVE. I am going to try one next trip. One of my frends said they used to fill empty paint cans with water (gal cans), hammer them closed, and take 2 concrete pads. Said you put one concrete block, a silver dollar, the can of water, and then another block. He said when you shoot, the can explodes, and the hydraulic pressure molds a perfect impression of the silver dollar in the bottom of the can. The top block just keeps the lid from blowing off too soon. Sounds like fun to try!! What did you use for sights? I am using a cheap red dot sight, but don't think it will stand up. Probably just going to go with the clamp-on irons. Have fun.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 5:14:26 AM EDT
Marty's getting all teary-eyed "sniff" must be the season. BTW Marty, I should get clearance to release the video to you shortly! Will e-mail you the other answers.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 6:25:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DocGP: Rguard, I shot 26rds of the 335gr HP. Still have to figure out what I want to do for sights. Mostly paper, but popped 3 bleach jugs full of water (really quite spectacular). Yep, sore shoulder today, but one of those pains that I LOVE. I am going to try one next trip. One of my frends said they used to fill empty paint cans with water (gal cans), hammer them closed, and take 2 concrete pads. Said you put one concrete block, a silver dollar, the can of water, and then another block. He said when you shoot, the can explodes, and the hydraulic pressure molds a perfect impression of the silver dollar in the bottom of the can. The top block just keeps the lid from blowing off too soon. Sounds like fun to try!! What did you use for sights? I am using a cheap red dot sight, but don't think it will stand up. Probably just going to go with the clamp-on irons. Have fun.
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I have GOT to try that paint can trick ;> I use a EOTech Holosight and love it, there is no magnification so you are kind of limited by how good your eyes are (keeps me to 100m ;p) but it stands up to the recoil fine. I have only been out to the range since I got Beowulf and so have not had a chance to see it in action on anything better than a spinner (which is very entertaining as it spins for a while ;) As for recoil, get a limbsaver, it slips on and off and so you can pull it anytime to "impress" your friends, but it cuts down on the bruising :o) I will let you know if the FMJ rounds are any fun as I am going to a ranch in west Texas this week and plan to "experiment" ;) RGUARD
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:43:13 AM EDT
All-- I know very little about .50 caliber rifles. I know a little bit about .50 caliber pistols. The latter led me to the following site... http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm Take a look at his .50ae Sledgehammer. (Is this already old news on this site?) I can tell the above link will not be "hot" because I cannot figure out how to turn my html code "on", yet. --Bill
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:48:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BillCnKC: All-- I know very little about .50 caliber rifles. I know a little bit about .50 caliber pistols. The latter led me to the following site... [URL]http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm[/URL] Take a look at his .50ae Sledgehammer. (Is this already old news on this site?) I can tell the above link will not be "hot" because I cannot figure out how to turn my html code "on", yet. --Bill
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Bill: Yes, Tony Rumore is a known quantity around these parts. He partnered with [url=www.teppojutsu.com]Teppojutsu[/url] to roll out the 458 SOCOM rifles I mentioned above. The glory of the systems {Beowulf and 458SOCOM} is that they can use unmodified USGI mags, with no custom followers. Ed
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 2:57:24 PM EDT
Yeah, I guess the 50AE may be considered "old news", but it is still BY FAR the best selling caliber in the entire TROMIX line-up, 10-1. Buying ammo off the shelf at any gun shop is a big plus and the thing is only about 100fps short of the Beowulf. It will launch a 325gr Speer at 1850fps from a 16.75" barrel....I don't believe any game animal that is hit with a 50AE rifle is going to shrug it off. There is only Beuwolf ammo on the shelf at a few gun shops in the country. I'll bet it's less than 5%. Tony Rumore Tromix Corp
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:02:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HipFiredGun: Marty's getting all teary-eyed "sniff" must be the season. BTW Marty, I should get clearance to release the video to you shortly! Will e-mail you the other answers.
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Nah, it's the Louisiana Chinese Red Pepper, jalapeno and tabasco the Mrs. put in the beans and sausage ("Go ahead honey, I can't have any because I am feeding the baby, but eat all you want, I made them for you") Roger on the video/Email
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 3:38:42 PM EDT
Tony-- My son wants one of your uppers real bad. I think it is because he knows he can then dive into the supply of .50AE for my Desert Eagle. --Bill
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