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Posted: 6/3/2016 3:04:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2016 3:05:35 PM EDT by bradpierson26]
Let's get this going again!
I am enjoying mine, still unfired Til this Fall though
18" bead blasted barrel, 5/8x24 muzzle. 15" ALG V2 rail, vortex 2-7x
I'll be using my Recce 7 on it



2A Ti gas block to keep it light up front as it will be a hunting gun

Link Posted: 6/3/2016 3:08:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2016 5:55:20 PM EDT by Forest]
Thanks bud. I can't believe the other one got locked. Reserving this post to start all over again I guess.


IN THE MEANTIME, HERE'S A LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD WITH 32 PAGES OF TECHNICAL DATA THAT GOT LOCKED BECAUSE MULTIPLE PEOPLE ASKED HOW TO GET A BARREL AND I POSTED A LINK TO MY COMMERCIAL BUSINESS.


http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/636402__277_Wolverine__6_8_in_a_5_56_Case_.html


< Edited to tell the whole story - F >
Link Posted: 6/3/2016 5:10:32 PM EDT
my bad...
Link Posted: 6/3/2016 5:24:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2016 7:32:26 PM EDT by TheHomelandSoldier]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RLunyATL:
my bad...
View Quote


Not your fault - bad moderator decision.


Let's keep it technical folks:

FYI 1:7 twist barrels are running subs and supers both, just fine, and there are now 205 grain cast subs and 175 grain subsonic expanding bullets in .277 available.

What this means is that you can use a 1:7 twist barrel to do all the fun stuff you want to do. Hunt, plink, subs with a can, all good!



Link Posted: 6/3/2016 5:49:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2016 5:50:45 PM EDT by JSmithXYY]
Well,
I am glad that they let you have a good run for a few years w/o becoming an industry sponsor since you are a small start up and I hear the annual industry member cost is rather high, but let us make this thread for users to show their builds and ask/answer questions of eachother. Everyone can find their way to the MDWS site to inquire about ordering parts and such.
Link Posted: 6/3/2016 5:51:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2016 5:52:04 PM EDT by JSmithXYY]
Reserving this...post to later post up links to sources of current ammo Mfgs and such
Link Posted: 6/3/2016 9:21:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/3/2016 9:28:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/3/2016 9:30:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2016 2:34:04 AM EDT
Can't see where he posted anything linking to his shop in this thread. Why would you ban him for just linking to an old thread with tons of information? Seems kinda harsh and spiteful.

Unless there is other things going on behind the scenes we cannot see.
Link Posted: 6/4/2016 3:07:52 AM EDT
s*** you did not give him the banhammer did you?

I think he should consider himself lucky to have been able to have a run of it for so long without being made to get an industry membership or to stop sort of advertising in the technical forums. I hope he can continue to be here to provide technical input.

Link Posted: 6/4/2016 3:22:52 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:
s*** you did not give him the banhammer did you?

I think he should consider himself lucky to have been able to have a run of it for so long without being made to get an industry membership or to stop sort of advertising in the technical forums. I hope he can continue to be here to provide technical input.

View Quote



Seems he did. Without much reason either or so it appears.
Link Posted: 6/4/2016 5:35:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2016 10:07:45 AM EDT
The .277 Wlv is a great little round.

It is an AR Variant.

The man that spent a lot of money to develop it shared it with the largest AR forum in the world. It would be great to have the person that developed the cartridge to be able to give technical support.

Sure, a good many people asked where they can buy a barrel, but so do people looking for Grendel, Creedmoor, Blackout, and on and on.

I got in early in the development of the Wolverine(I am on pg. 2 of the closed thread). I was one of the first dozen or so people that loaded and shot this round back in July/Aug of 2014.

I have no business meddling in site business, but the original thread offers a huge amount of cartridge specific data and the thread should be reopened so that it does not become archived. New and existing members will continue to be interested in the round and availability of this data is necessary to this round. All other rounds have enjoyed similar success due to input from members.

Either way, I will continue to sing the praises of this round.

GO WOLVERINE!!





All Wolverines, and I have a pistol barrel being worked up now.
Link Posted: 6/4/2016 2:38:50 PM EDT
Doesn't really matter if the old thread archives does it? It will still be there for reference.
Link Posted: 6/4/2016 5:51:09 PM EDT
While I have read quite a bit of the Wolverine and from what I've gathered it seems to do just everything that the 300 BO wish's it could do and then some. What has surprised me that these two cartridges haven't been wildly debated like the endless threads of the 6.5g and 6.8, which makes me wonder if the Wolverine will make the 300 obsolete if it gets SAAMI approved?
Link Posted: 6/4/2016 6:58:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LastRites:
While I have read quite a bit of the Wolverine and from what I've gathered it seems to do just everything that the 300 BO wish's it could do and then some. What has surprised me that these two cartridges haven't been wildly debated like the endless threads of the 6.5g and 6.8, which makes me wonder if the Wolverine will make the 300 obsolete if it gets SAAMI approved?
View Quote


300 Blackout has such a foothold in the market and also in the psychology of so many gun owning Americans, it is sort of the katana of black rifles if you know what I mean. I suspect it is here to stay. I really wish it was 762 x 40 or even something with a slightly longer case and people would just have got over being able to use unmodified AR-15 magazines because blackout really does give up a lot of case capacityunnecessarily but it is what it is. I don't see any reason why Wolverine is going to Dethrone it even though I like it better in almost all respects technically.
Link Posted: 6/4/2016 7:54:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:


300 Blackout has such a foothold in the market and also in the psychology of so many gun owning Americans, it is sort of the katana of black rifles if you know what I mean. I suspect it is here to stay. I really wish it was 762 x 40 or even something with a slightly longer case and people would just have got over being able to use unmodified AR-15 magazines because blackout really does give up a lot of case capacityunnecessarily but it is what it is. I don't see any reason why Wolverine is going to Dethrone it even though I like it better in almost all respects technically.
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Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:
Originally Posted By LastRites:
While I have read quite a bit of the Wolverine and from what I've gathered it seems to do just everything that the 300 BO wish's it could do and then some. What has surprised me that these two cartridges haven't been wildly debated like the endless threads of the 6.5g and 6.8, which makes me wonder if the Wolverine will make the 300 obsolete if it gets SAAMI approved?


300 Blackout has such a foothold in the market and also in the psychology of so many gun owning Americans, it is sort of the katana of black rifles if you know what I mean. I suspect it is here to stay. I really wish it was 762 x 40 or even something with a slightly longer case and people would just have got over being able to use unmodified AR-15 magazines because blackout really does give up a lot of case capacityunnecessarily but it is what it is. I don't see any reason why Wolverine is going to Dethrone it even though I like it better in almost all respects technically.


87% of gun owners have never heard of 300blk let alone consider it the Katana.
Link Posted: 6/4/2016 8:01:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2016 5:37:14 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LastRites:
While I have read quite a bit of the Wolverine and from what I've gathered it seems to do just everything that the 300 BO wish's it could do and then some. What has surprised me that these two cartridges haven't been wildly debated like the endless threads of the 6.5g and 6.8, which makes me wonder if the Wolverine will make the 300 obsolete if it gets SAAMI approved?
View Quote


The 300BLK does subs a lot better than the Wolverine. It can take heavier bullets and fit them into the magazine which with subs not being able to travel faster than sound heavier is better.

The difference between them supersonic was very minor also as any game the .277 could take so could the 300BLK.

The main complaint about the 300BLK is the cost of ammo. The .277 wolverine won't have access to all the milsurplus bullets that the 300BLK so it won't do as well with reloaders that can bring the costs way down with the 300BLK milsurp bullets. It will also mean that manufactures will not be able to sell cheap ammo as there are a lot less bullets that will work with the .277 than the .308. This is the largest reason it will never supersede or even come close to competing with the 300BLK
Link Posted: 6/5/2016 5:47:54 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:


300 Blackout has such a foothold in the market and also in the psychology of so many gun owning Americans, it is sort of the katana of black rifles if you know what I mean. I suspect it is here to stay. I really wish it was 762 x 40 or even something with a slightly longer case and people would just have got over being able to use unmodified AR-15 magazines because blackout really does give up a lot of case capacityunnecessarily but it is what it is. I don't see any reason why Wolverine is going to Dethrone it even though I like it better in almost all respects technically.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:
Originally Posted By LastRites:
While I have read quite a bit of the Wolverine and from what I've gathered it seems to do just everything that the 300 BO wish's it could do and then some. What has surprised me that these two cartridges haven't been wildly debated like the endless threads of the 6.5g and 6.8, which makes me wonder if the Wolverine will make the 300 obsolete if it gets SAAMI approved?


300 Blackout has such a foothold in the market and also in the psychology of so many gun owning Americans, it is sort of the katana of black rifles if you know what I mean. I suspect it is here to stay. I really wish it was 762 x 40 or even something with a slightly longer case and people would just have got over being able to use unmodified AR-15 magazines because blackout really does give up a lot of case capacityunnecessarily but it is what it is. I don't see any reason why Wolverine is going to Dethrone it even though I like it better in almost all respects technically.


I too wish we could cram more powder into the round but there are always compromises that have to be made. One it has to fit into a standard mag. As for the 7.62X40 even with modified mags it won't do the heavier 190gr+ subs in AR mags as the brass is too long for the bullets. This is why the 300BLK is the size it is as any larger it won't do heavier subs. It also stuck with a .308 as there are plenty of people familiar with it and there is a lot of variety and surplus of it.

As I said above the .277 won't do subs as well as the 300BLK, its plinking ammo will always cost more, no real cost savings for the reloader as compared to the great cost saving that the reloader have on the 300BLK and the differences in the supersonic are minimal enough to be like the .223 and the 5.56. Even though the 5.56 is faster and in this case the .277 has better BC it is not worth making it a standalone cartridge as the advantages are too minor to even come close to justifying the additional costs and lack of mil surplus and the wide variety of .308 ammo.
Link Posted: 6/5/2016 10:21:44 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Recoil737:


I too wish we could cram more powder into the round but there are always compromises that have to be made. One it has to fit into a standard mag. As for the 7.62X40 even with modified mags it won't do the heavier 190gr+ subs in AR mags as the brass is too long for the bullets. This is why the 300BLK is the size it is as any larger it won't do heavier subs. It also stuck with a .308 as there are plenty of people familiar with it and there is a lot of variety and surplus of it.

As I said above the .277 won't do subs as well as the 300BLK, its plinking ammo will always cost more, no real cost savings for the reloader as compared to the great cost saving that the reloader have on the 300BLK and the differences in the supersonic are minimal enough to be like the .223 and the 5.56. Even though the 5.56 is faster and in this case the .277 has better BC it is not worth making it a standalone cartridge as the advantages are too minor to even come close to justifying the additional costs and lack of mil surplus and the wide variety of .308 ammo.
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Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:
Originally Posted By LastRites:
While I have read quite a bit of the Wolverine and from what I've gathered it seems to do just everything that the 300 BO wish's it could do and then some. What has surprised me that these two cartridges haven't been wildly debated like the endless threads of the 6.5g and 6.8, which makes me wonder if the Wolverine will make the 300 obsolete if it gets SAAMI approved?


300 Blackout has such a foothold in the market and also in the psychology of so many gun owning Americans, it is sort of the katana of black rifles if you know what I mean. I suspect it is here to stay. I really wish it was 762 x 40 or even something with a slightly longer case and people would just have got over being able to use unmodified AR-15 magazines because blackout really does give up a lot of case capacityunnecessarily but it is what it is. I don't see any reason why Wolverine is going to Dethrone it even though I like it better in almost all respects technically.


I too wish we could cram more powder into the round but there are always compromises that have to be made. One it has to fit into a standard mag. As for the 7.62X40 even with modified mags it won't do the heavier 190gr+ subs in AR mags as the brass is too long for the bullets. This is why the 300BLK is the size it is as any larger it won't do heavier subs. It also stuck with a .308 as there are plenty of people familiar with it and there is a lot of variety and surplus of it.

As I said above the .277 won't do subs as well as the 300BLK, its plinking ammo will always cost more, no real cost savings for the reloader as compared to the great cost saving that the reloader have on the 300BLK and the differences in the supersonic are minimal enough to be like the .223 and the 5.56. Even though the 5.56 is faster and in this case the .277 has better BC it is not worth making it a standalone cartridge as the advantages are too minor to even come close to justifying the additional costs and lack of mil surplus and the wide variety of .308 ammo.


Really, you are going that route!?
I don't even shoot subs or suppress, but I know better.
Link Posted: 6/5/2016 10:42:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2016 10:43:41 AM EDT by Yama_Raja]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Recoil737:


I too wish we could cram more powder into the round but there are always compromises that have to be made. One it has to fit into a standard mag. As for the 7.62X40 even with modified mags it won't do the heavier 190gr+ subs in AR mags as the brass is too long for the bullets. This is why the 300BLK is the size it is as any larger it won't do heavier subs. It also stuck with a .308 as there are plenty of people familiar with it and there is a lot of variety and surplus of it.

As I said above the .277 won't do subs as well as the 300BLK, its plinking ammo will always cost more, no real cost savings for the reloader as compared to the great cost saving that the reloader have on the 300BLK and the differences in the supersonic are minimal enough to be like the .223 and the 5.56. Even though the 5.56 is faster and in this case the .277 has better BC it is not worth making it a standalone cartridge as the advantages are too minor to even come close to justifying the additional costs and lack of mil surplus and the wide variety of .308 ammo.
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Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:
Originally Posted By LastRites:
While I have read quite a bit of the Wolverine and from what I've gathered it seems to do just everything that the 300 BO wish's it could do and then some. What has surprised me that these two cartridges haven't been wildly debated like the endless threads of the 6.5g and 6.8, which makes me wonder if the Wolverine will make the 300 obsolete if it gets SAAMI approved?


300 Blackout has such a foothold in the market and also in the psychology of so many gun owning Americans, it is sort of the katana of black rifles if you know what I mean. I suspect it is here to stay. I really wish it was 762 x 40 or even something with a slightly longer case and people would just have got over being able to use unmodified AR-15 magazines because blackout really does give up a lot of case capacityunnecessarily but it is what it is. I don't see any reason why Wolverine is going to Dethrone it even though I like it better in almost all respects technically.


I too wish we could cram more powder into the round but there are always compromises that have to be made. One it has to fit into a standard mag. As for the 7.62X40 even with modified mags it won't do the heavier 190gr+ subs in AR mags as the brass is too long for the bullets. This is why the 300BLK is the size it is as any larger it won't do heavier subs. It also stuck with a .308 as there are plenty of people familiar with it and there is a lot of variety and surplus of it.

As I said above the .277 won't do subs as well as the 300BLK, its plinking ammo will always cost more, no real cost savings for the reloader as compared to the great cost saving that the reloader have on the 300BLK and the differences in the supersonic are minimal enough to be like the .223 and the 5.56. Even though the 5.56 is faster and in this case the .277 has better BC it is not worth making it a standalone cartridge as the advantages are too minor to even come close to justifying the additional costs and lack of mil surplus and the wide variety of .308 ammo.


At shot this year:
Blackout - Everywhere
6.8 - good representation although no where near the BO
6.5G - Only saw it at AA
24-45 Sharps - was there
.277 Wlv - didnt see one
I was all over that show for 4 days.

The Wlv is a decent little niche cartridge, and has a small fan base.
However there is a whole lot of industry push behind the .300 BO

And your right, the 300 BO was designed for subs, and it excels at them.

Link Posted: 6/5/2016 12:25:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2016 12:25:58 PM EDT by JSmithXYY]
Yes 300 blk can shoot heavier subs wch = >E. Yes it has more support, much more, and probably always will. But at least wlv doesn't rely on bullet crimp to keep from being chambered in 556 chamber.

I think the appeal of blk to reloaders is overplayed, most shooters are not reloaders, not even close and most people are content to plink w common mil chamberings. I just need enough ammo to sight in and function test & shoot a few animals or home invaders every year.

I would have a went 762x40 but the powders they use are not particularly fast burning, they are designed rather to wring as much value out of longer barrels. The guy that does the 277 ammo uses fast powder, probably lil gun.

If shooting subsonic was important to me I would have probably gone w 300 still though.

Link Posted: 6/5/2016 8:48:37 PM EDT
The .277 holds its own against the .300 in supersonic rounds in equivalent light for caliber bullets. From what I understand, the .277 also holds its own fairly well with heavy for caliber subs. If the guy that developed it were still here, I am sure he could provide specific ballistics(and he has in the past for similar detractors).

While you wont find factory 200+ grn bullets to load in the .277, it is not exactly cheap to load factory heavy .30 cal bullets for the BO so that takes some of the argue out of your argument.

The round was not developed to beat any other round, but rather to provide its own niche and options when compared to .300 BO, 6.8 SPC, and others. The guy that developed the .277 has explicitly stated that it was not to start a war over which round was "better". If you must insist that .300 BO is better than the .277, I will admit that it probably does in some ways, but not in others. So, please, do not make this thread into a my ____ is better than your ____. Build on a good thing that the .277 is and don't spread untruths because you may not like this option.

I have both .300 BO and .277, and I think the .277 does awesome at my intended use of deer hunting up to 150-200 yards. It is mighty fun to shoot at steel, paper, or tannerite as well! At the NC/SC shoot, I was easily pinging the 340 yard gong, and it was quite satisfying.
Link Posted: 6/6/2016 8:12:31 AM EDT
Comparing just what you can see at SHOT show to a cat is ridiculous.

When the 300 first came out I was interested til I looked at the numbers, when I did I decided to keep my 30-30.

I have 4 wolverines though.

Shot 3 deer last year with the 16" to make sure it worked good :P

I haven't tried subs yet though, but til then if I want to shoot something with a big slow bullet I'll use my .45.

I have a X40 WT I have to put together yet though to get back into the 30 cal game since I gave my nephew my 30-30 a while back lol
Link Posted: 6/6/2016 4:47:00 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheHomelandSoldier:
Thanks bud. I can't believe the other one got locked. Reserving this post to start all over again I guess.


IN THE MEANTIME, HERE'S A LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD WITH 32 PAGES OF TECHNICAL DATA THAT GOT LOCKED BECAUSE MULTIPLE PEOPLE ASKED HOW TO GET A BARREL AND I POSTED A LINK TO MY COMMERCIAL BUSINESS.


http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/636402__277_Wolverine__6_8_in_a_5_56_Case_.html


< Edited to tell the whole story - F >
View Quote
In all fairness, I didn't ask how to get a barrel, I simply asked when they would be in-stock, and he told me without including a link. Whatever, sorry I got the previous thread locked... I guess Mod's are gonna Mod...
Link Posted: 6/7/2016 6:30:03 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By lizARdman15:


Really, you are going that route!?
I don't even shoot subs or suppress, but I know better.
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Originally Posted By lizARdman15:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:
Originally Posted By LastRites:
While I have read quite a bit of the Wolverine and from what I've gathered it seems to do just everything that the 300 BO wish's it could do and then some. What has surprised me that these two cartridges haven't been wildly debated like the endless threads of the 6.5g and 6.8, which makes me wonder if the Wolverine will make the 300 obsolete if it gets SAAMI approved?


300 Blackout has such a foothold in the market and also in the psychology of so many gun owning Americans, it is sort of the katana of black rifles if you know what I mean. I suspect it is here to stay. I really wish it was 762 x 40 or even something with a slightly longer case and people would just have got over being able to use unmodified AR-15 magazines because blackout really does give up a lot of case capacityunnecessarily but it is what it is. I don't see any reason why Wolverine is going to Dethrone it even though I like it better in almost all respects technically.


I too wish we could cram more powder into the round but there are always compromises that have to be made. One it has to fit into a standard mag. As for the 7.62X40 even with modified mags it won't do the heavier 190gr+ subs in AR mags as the brass is too long for the bullets. This is why the 300BLK is the size it is as any larger it won't do heavier subs. It also stuck with a .308 as there are plenty of people familiar with it and there is a lot of variety and surplus of it.

As I said above the .277 won't do subs as well as the 300BLK, its plinking ammo will always cost more, no real cost savings for the reloader as compared to the great cost saving that the reloader have on the 300BLK and the differences in the supersonic are minimal enough to be like the .223 and the 5.56. Even though the 5.56 is faster and in this case the .277 has better BC it is not worth making it a standalone cartridge as the advantages are too minor to even come close to justifying the additional costs and lack of mil surplus and the wide variety of .308 ammo.


Really, you are going that route!?
I don't even shoot subs or suppress, but I know better.


What exactly do you know better? Can the .277 shoot 208gr subs? 220gr subs? 240gr subs? 258gr subs? Because the 300BLK can shoot them all and when you can't increase speed to get better ballistics you have to increase mass and the 300BLK can lob more mass downrange at subsonic velocities than the Wolverine. It also has about 20 times more subsonic bullets that have either been made for the 300BLK or can be used by the 300BLK. Considering there are no heavy regular .277 bullets that are not special order and will top out at around 180gr with just the bullets at that weight costing around .75 cents each. Unlike the 300BLK which can use the widely available .308 bullets such as the 208gr amax, 220gr berger/nosler/hornady/sierra matchkings, 225gr hornady, 240gr sierra matchking.

So, yes in every conceivable manner the 300BLK is better at subs than the Wolverine.
Link Posted: 6/7/2016 8:13:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2016 8:27:08 AM EDT by 320pf]
Recoil737,

Your points are ALL correct. In support, I would also like to point out that the heavy .308 call have much better ballistic coefficients so they retain their velocity downrange better (higher retained energy downrange) and are less susceptible to wind drift. So the 300 300 Whisper/BO is a much better choice for shooting subsonic loads than the WLV.

Just a short historical note. The 300 BO is the commercial/SAAMI version of the 300 Whisper, which was designed by J.D. Jones of SSK Industries. One of Jones' designed uses for the 300 Whisper/BO was silhouette shooting. It was designed to minimize the windage correction for hitting the Ram (500 m). (Note: in long range shooting distance/bullet drop is a pretty straight forward correction, the windage correction is always the challenge, since high BC bullets require less windage correction they are preferred choice).

320pf
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Recoil737:


What exactly do you know better? Can the .277 shoot 208gr subs? 220gr subs? 240gr subs? 258gr subs? Because the 300BLK can shoot them all and when you can't increase speed to get better ballistics you have to increase mass and the 300BLK can lob more mass downrange at subsonic velocities than the Wolverine. It also has about 20 times more subsonic bullets that have either been made for the 300BLK or can be used by the 300BLK. Considering there are no heavy regular .277 bullets that are not special order and will top out at around 180gr with just the bullets at that weight costing around .75 cents each. Unlike the 300BLK which can use the widely available .308 bullets such as the 208gr amax, 220gr berger/nosler/hornady/sierra matchkings, 225gr hornady, 240gr sierra matchking.

So, yes in every conceivable manner the 300BLK is better at subs than the Wolverine.
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Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By lizARdman15:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:
Originally Posted By LastRites:
While I have read quite a bit of the Wolverine and from what I've gathered it seems to do just everything that the 300 BO wish's it could do and then some. What has surprised me that these two cartridges haven't been wildly debated like the endless threads of the 6.5g and 6.8, which makes me wonder if the Wolverine will make the 300 obsolete if it gets SAAMI approved?


300 Blackout has such a foothold in the market and also in the psychology of so many gun owning Americans, it is sort of the katana of black rifles if you know what I mean. I suspect it is here to stay. I really wish it was 762 x 40 or even something with a slightly longer case and people would just have got over being able to use unmodified AR-15 magazines because blackout really does give up a lot of case capacityunnecessarily but it is what it is. I don't see any reason why Wolverine is going to Dethrone it even though I like it better in almost all respects technically.


I too wish we could cram more powder into the round but there are always compromises that have to be made. One it has to fit into a standard mag. As for the 7.62X40 even with modified mags it won't do the heavier 190gr+ subs in AR mags as the brass is too long for the bullets. This is why the 300BLK is the size it is as any larger it won't do heavier subs. It also stuck with a .308 as there are plenty of people familiar with it and there is a lot of variety and surplus of it.

As I said above the .277 won't do subs as well as the 300BLK, its plinking ammo will always cost more, no real cost savings for the reloader as compared to the great cost saving that the reloader have on the 300BLK and the differences in the supersonic are minimal enough to be like the .223 and the 5.56. Even though the 5.56 is faster and in this case the .277 has better BC it is not worth making it a standalone cartridge as the advantages are too minor to even come close to justifying the additional costs and lack of mil surplus and the wide variety of .308 ammo.


Really, you are going that route!?
I don't even shoot subs or suppress, but I know better.


What exactly do you know better? Can the .277 shoot 208gr subs? 220gr subs? 240gr subs? 258gr subs? Because the 300BLK can shoot them all and when you can't increase speed to get better ballistics you have to increase mass and the 300BLK can lob more mass downrange at subsonic velocities than the Wolverine. It also has about 20 times more subsonic bullets that have either been made for the 300BLK or can be used by the 300BLK. Considering there are no heavy regular .277 bullets that are not special order and will top out at around 180gr with just the bullets at that weight costing around .75 cents each. Unlike the 300BLK which can use the widely available .308 bullets such as the 208gr amax, 220gr berger/nosler/hornady/sierra matchkings, 225gr hornady, 240gr sierra matchking.

So, yes in every conceivable manner the 300BLK is better at subs than the Wolverine.

Link Posted: 6/7/2016 8:27:01 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Recoil737:


What exactly do you know better? Can the .277 shoot 208gr subs? 220gr subs? 240gr subs? 258gr subs? Because the 300BLK can shoot them all and when you can't increase speed to get better ballistics you have to increase mass and the 300BLK can lob more mass downrange at subsonic velocities than the Wolverine. It also has about 20 times more subsonic bullets that have either been made for the 300BLK or can be used by the 300BLK. Considering there are no heavy regular .277 bullets that are not special order and will top out at around 180gr with just the bullets at that weight costing around .75 cents each. Unlike the 300BLK which can use the widely available .308 bullets such as the 208gr amax, 220gr berger/nosler/hornady/sierra matchkings, 225gr hornady, 240gr sierra matchking.

So, yes in every conceivable manner the 300BLK is better at subs than the Wolverine.
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Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By lizARdman15:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:
Originally Posted By LastRites:
While I have read quite a bit of the Wolverine and from what I've gathered it seems to do just everything that the 300 BO wish's it could do and then some. What has surprised me that these two cartridges haven't been wildly debated like the endless threads of the 6.5g and 6.8, which makes me wonder if the Wolverine will make the 300 obsolete if it gets SAAMI approved?


300 Blackout has such a foothold in the market and also in the psychology of so many gun owning Americans, it is sort of the katana of black rifles if you know what I mean. I suspect it is here to stay. I really wish it was 762 x 40 or even something with a slightly longer case and people would just have got over being able to use unmodified AR-15 magazines because blackout really does give up a lot of case capacityunnecessarily but it is what it is. I don't see any reason why Wolverine is going to Dethrone it even though I like it better in almost all respects technically.


I too wish we could cram more powder into the round but there are always compromises that have to be made. One it has to fit into a standard mag. As for the 7.62X40 even with modified mags it won't do the heavier 190gr+ subs in AR mags as the brass is too long for the bullets. This is why the 300BLK is the size it is as any larger it won't do heavier subs. It also stuck with a .308 as there are plenty of people familiar with it and there is a lot of variety and surplus of it.

As I said above the .277 won't do subs as well as the 300BLK, its plinking ammo will always cost more, no real cost savings for the reloader as compared to the great cost saving that the reloader have on the 300BLK and the differences in the supersonic are minimal enough to be like the .223 and the 5.56. Even though the 5.56 is faster and in this case the .277 has better BC it is not worth making it a standalone cartridge as the advantages are too minor to even come close to justifying the additional costs and lack of mil surplus and the wide variety of .308 ammo.


Really, you are going that route!?
I don't even shoot subs or suppress, but I know better.


What exactly do you know better? Can the .277 shoot 208gr subs? 220gr subs? 240gr subs? 258gr subs? Because the 300BLK can shoot them all and when you can't increase speed to get better ballistics you have to increase mass and the 300BLK can lob more mass downrange at subsonic velocities than the Wolverine. It also has about 20 times more subsonic bullets that have either been made for the 300BLK or can be used by the 300BLK. Considering there are no heavy regular .277 bullets that are not special order and will top out at around 180gr with just the bullets at that weight costing around .75 cents each. Unlike the 300BLK which can use the widely available .308 bullets such as the 208gr amax, 220gr berger/nosler/hornady/sierra matchkings, 225gr hornady, 240gr sierra matchking.

So, yes in every conceivable manner the 300BLK is better at subs than the Wolverine.


Sure, it is cheap to shoot Bergers and Amax or any 200+ grn .30 bullet? That is a whole kind of Forrest Gump stupid

If you are so gung ho about the .300 BO being so much better, why don't you just stay out of this thread. Nobody ever said you should give the BO up and go strictly for the .277 Wlv.

The fact is that the Wlv is quite capable at subs that actually fit its caliber and there are heavy bullets available, albeit not as heavy as the factory .30 cal bullets(but you do understand that .277 is not as big as .308 right).

This is a variants sub-forum. All variants started life as a cat and so did the .300 BO. So, ease up on your "opinion" since most people that get into the Wlv do so because of its supersonic capability. Your judgement is not warranted if you can not be open minded.
Link Posted: 6/7/2016 8:42:13 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By lizARdman15:
Sure, it is cheap to shoot Bergers and Amax or any 200+ grn .30 bullet? That is a whole kind of Forrest Gump stupid

If you are so gung ho about the .300 BO being so much better, why don't you just stay out of this thread. Nobody ever said you should give the BO up and go strictly for the .277 Wlv.

The fact is that the Wlv is quite capable at subs that actually fit its caliber and there are heavy bullets available, albeit not as heavy as the factory .30 cal bullets(but you do understand that .277 is not as big as .308 right).

This is a variants sub-forum. All variants started life as a cat and so did the .300 BO. So, ease up on your "opinion" since most people that get into the Wlv do so because of its supersonic capability. Your judgement is not warranted if you can not be open minded.
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Did we loose freedom of speech and I missed it?

Link Posted: 6/7/2016 11:54:47 AM EDT
Freedom of speech has nothing to do with knowing when to when to shut up. If you have nothing to add, then by all means, stay within your level of comfort.

I have never and will never go into a .300 BO thread and smack talk the round. I never said it wasn't a good round. I have a pistol in it that I like a lot.

So, why go into a thread about a new round and trash talk it. The .277 Wlv is a fine round that offers options that no other round does. It is different, but very capable. Can you shoot a 6.8 SPC with a standard AR bolt or mags?

All I ask it that everyone keep it clean and about the specifics of the .277 Wlv. The round needs no defense, but support of the shooting community is a good thing for all of us.
Link Posted: 6/7/2016 2:15:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2016 3:01:41 PM EDT by Yama_Raja]
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Originally Posted By lizARdman15:
Freedom of speech has nothing to do with knowing when to when to shut up. If you have nothing to add, then by all means, stay within your level of comfort.

I have never and will never go into a .300 BO thread and smack talk the round. I never said it wasn't a good round. I have a pistol in it that I like a lot.

So, why go into a thread about a new round and trash talk it. The .277 Wlv is a fine round that offers options that no other round does. It is different, but very capable. Can you shoot a 6.8 SPC with a standard AR bolt or mags?

All I ask it that everyone keep it clean and about the specifics of the .277 Wlv. The round needs no defense, but support of the shooting community is a good thing for all of us.
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The Wlv is more accurate than the .300 BO in supers, thats just a fact, but the BO does subs better if thats all someone is after.
If I person wants to shoot subs and supers the Wlv might well suit them better.
Some seem to think I don't like the Wlv, which is not the case.
Its a fine caliber for those looking for something with its capabilities.

I dont like when anyone states any caliber is more than it is.


I'm going to ignore your 6.8 comments and not turn this into a caliber war.
After all the crap I've taken here in those caliber wars I never once said somebody should shut up if they dont agree with me.
Your kinda out of line sir in that aspect.
Link Posted: 6/7/2016 4:15:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/7/2016 7:16:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2016 7:18:52 PM EDT by Recoil737]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lizARdman15:


Sure, it is cheap to shoot Bergers and Amax or any 200+ grn .30 bullet? That is a whole kind of Forrest Gump stupid

If you are so gung ho about the .300 BO being so much better, why don't you just stay out of this thread. Nobody ever said you should give the BO up and go strictly for the .277 Wlv.

The fact is that the Wlv is quite capable at subs that actually fit its caliber and there are heavy bullets available, albeit not as heavy as the factory .30 cal bullets(but you do understand that .277 is not as big as .308 right).

This is a variants sub-forum. All variants started life as a cat and so did the .300 BO. So, ease up on your "opinion" since most people that get into the Wlv do so because of its supersonic capability. Your judgement is not warranted if you can not be open minded.
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Originally Posted By lizARdman15:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By lizARdman15:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By LastRites:
While I have read quite a bit of the Wolverine and from what I've gathered it seems to do just everything that the 300 BO wish's it could do and then some. What has surprised me that these two cartridges haven't been wildly debated like the endless threads of the 6.5g and 6.8, which makes me wonder if the Wolverine will make the 300 obsolete if it gets SAAMI approved?


300 Blackout has such a foothold in the market and also in the psychology of so many gun owning Americans, it is sort of the katana of black rifles if you know what I mean. I suspect it is here to stay. I really wish it was 762 x 40 or even something with a slightly longer case and people would just have got over being able to use unmodified AR-15 magazines because blackout really does give up a lot of case capacityunnecessarily but it is what it is. I don't see any reason why Wolverine is going to Dethrone it even though I like it better in almost all respects technically.

I too wish we could cram more powder into the round but there are always compromises that have to be made. One it has to fit into a standard mag. As for the 7.62X40 even with modified mags it won't do the heavier 190gr+ subs in AR mags as the brass is too long for the bullets. This is why the 300BLK is the size it is as any larger it won't do heavier subs. It also stuck with a .308 as there are plenty of people familiar with it and there is a lot of variety and surplus of it.

As I said above the .277 won't do subs as well as the 300BLK, its plinking ammo will always cost more, no real cost savings for the reloader as compared to the great cost saving that the reloader have on the 300BLK and the differences in the supersonic are minimal enough to be like the .223 and the 5.56. Even though the 5.56 is faster and in this case the .277 has better BC it is not worth making it a standalone cartridge as the advantages are too minor to even come close to justifying the additional costs and lack of mil surplus and the wide variety of .308 ammo.


Really, you are going that route!?
I don't even shoot subs or suppress, but I know better.


What exactly do you know better? Can the .277 shoot 208gr subs? 220gr subs? 240gr subs? 258gr subs? Because the 300BLK can shoot them all and when you can't increase speed to get better ballistics you have to increase mass and the 300BLK can lob more mass downrange at subsonic velocities than the Wolverine. It also has about 20 times more subsonic bullets that have either been made for the 300BLK or can be used by the 300BLK. Considering there are no heavy regular .277 bullets that are not special order and will top out at around 180gr with just the bullets at that weight costing around .75 cents each. Unlike the 300BLK which can use the widely available .308 bullets such as the 208gr amax, 220gr berger/nosler/hornady/sierra matchkings, 225gr hornady, 240gr sierra matchking.

So, yes in every conceivable manner the 300BLK is better at subs than the Wolverine.


Sure, it is cheap to shoot Bergers and Amax or any 200+ grn .30 bullet? That is a whole kind of Forrest Gump stupid

If you are so gung ho about the .300 BO being so much better, why don't you just stay out of this thread. Nobody ever said you should give the BO up and go strictly for the .277 Wlv.

The fact is that the Wlv is quite capable at subs that actually fit its caliber and there are heavy bullets available, albeit not as heavy as the factory .30 cal bullets(but you do understand that .277 is not as big as .308 right).

This is a variants sub-forum. All variants started life as a cat and so did the .300 BO. So, ease up on your "opinion" since most people that get into the Wlv do so because of its supersonic capability. Your judgement is not warranted if you can not be open minded.


It seems I made a well reasoned argument why the .277 wolverine wasn't as good as the 300BLK in subs pointing out the options that the .277 doesn't have and the reason that heavier subs make for better better ballistics. The only thing you had to answer with was calling me Forrest Gump stupid. Not quite the master debater on showing why I am wrong but OK.

That is just name calling because the .277 has no bullets that can compete so rather than say that you call me stupid. The fact that the 300BLK has manufactures that actually make heavy bullets didn't mean they were cheap but they are available and way cheaper than the heaviest 180gr .277 manufactures bullets. The 300BLK also has many manufactures like Berry Bullets and leatherhead making cheap subsonic plinking ammo that once again the .277 wolverine doesn't have.

You also have yet to explain how you know better. Because you don't shoot subs or suppressed but you know better than someone who does a lot?

If you would just stop making moronic statements about the 300BLK then the posters won't have to keep correcting you and we could move this thread along.

P.S. I didn't bring up the 300BLK I just responded to a comment made about the .277 supplanting the 300BLK.
Link Posted: 6/7/2016 9:56:34 PM EDT
This talk of BCs of subsonic bullets is silly. The BC values do not really apply at 1000 fps. The differences between a 45 230g fmj and a 220 g SMK at the same velocity at 200 yds is like nothing. It is is not even worth considering at any kind of practical range a guy might actually shoot something at with a sub.
Link Posted: 6/8/2016 7:06:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2016 7:09:32 AM EDT by Recoil737]
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Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:
This talk of BCs of subsonic bullets is silly. The BC values do not really apply at 1000 fps. The differences between a 45 230g fmj and a 220 g SMK at the same velocity at 200 yds is like nothing. It is is not even worth considering at any kind of practical range a guy might actually shoot something at with a sub.
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You do know I was talking about the energy that the bullet has right not the Ballistics Coefficient. As in the difference in a 240gr bullet traveling at 1050fps vs. a 180gr bullet traveling at 1050fps. The heavier bullet traveling at the same speed can create a lot more damage to whatever it hits.

I know someone did mention the BC between the two and they are not very far apart. As for the BC of a 230gr .45 and a 225gr .308. It actually is quite a difference between the two at 200 yards.

With both bullets starting out at 1000fps the .45 will have 359 FT-LB of energy while the .308 will still have 446 FT-LB of energy at 200 yards. Or to put it another way the .308 retains 28 percent more energy at 200 yards even though the .45 is heavier.

At 200 yards the .45 will be traveling at 839fps while the .308 is traveling at 945fps. The .45 will also drop an additional 5 inches at 200 yards. So BC actually is a big deal in energy down range and drop.

I tend to keep the subs shooting within 150 yards but with the 300BLK it is very easy to hit man sized targets with subsonics all day at 200 yards.
Link Posted: 6/9/2016 12:06:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2016 12:11:18 AM EDT by boltcatch]
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Originally Posted By Talenel:

When the 300 first came out I was interested til I looked at the numbers, when I did I decided to keep my 30-30.

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The 30-30 isn't going to work nearly as nice out of an 8" barrel, though.

In my experience, people who took the plunge and tried .300 are then much more likely to try other new chamberings. Especially if it got them into reloading. It's pretty much a win for everyone as people realize they can find rounds that better suit their purposes than 5.56 or .308.


What I see about the .277 that I like is greater range and better projectiles while keeping a standard bolt.
Link Posted: 6/9/2016 7:49:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By boltcatch:


The 30-30 isn't going to work nearly as nice out of an 8" barrel, though.

In my experience, people who took the plunge and tried .300 are then much more likely to try other new chamberings. Especially if it got them into reloading. It's pretty much a win for everyone as people realize they can find rounds that better suit their purposes than 5.56 or .308.


What I see about the .277 that I like is greater range and better projectiles while keeping a standard bolt.
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Originally Posted By boltcatch:
Originally Posted By Talenel:

When the 300 first came out I was interested til I looked at the numbers, when I did I decided to keep my 30-30.



The 30-30 isn't going to work nearly as nice out of an 8" barrel, though.

In my experience, people who took the plunge and tried .300 are then much more likely to try other new chamberings. Especially if it got them into reloading. It's pretty much a win for everyone as people realize they can find rounds that better suit their purposes than 5.56 or .308.


What I see about the .277 that I like is greater range and better projectiles while keeping a standard bolt.


The std bolt/mag and greater range with supers was what has piqued my attention as I was considering a <250 yd hunting gun, just hadn't really found solid evidence of the differences.
Link Posted: 6/9/2016 10:53:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/10/2016 10:23:12 AM EDT by Forest]
< Not relevant to the discussion at hand - F >
Link Posted: 6/12/2016 8:05:44 AM EDT
I installed a new scope on the rifle I build for my wife (20" savage axis barrel) the original scope was used and we found out it was junk.

I forgot to bring my crony for velocities, but a side by side comparison of the same load (21.5 gr 5744) loaded the same length of 90 gr gold dots and 90 gr nosler bonded reveled:

This load is pretty much same max in my barrel.

The gold dot had slightly less pressure signs presumably from slightly less engraving force needed.

The gold dot also had a better grouping. 1/2" 4 shot group with 1 called flier opening it up to about 1.5" (5 shot total)

Nosler bonded had 3 shot go into the same location at about 3/4" group but the last two shot next to each other an inch to the left.

LAst time at eh range the Nosler bonded were going over 2800 FPS I don't remember the exact number but I need to remember to bring my chrony next time

My 16" AR barrel averages 2725 fps with the same load and Nosler bonded.

I've shot 5 deer in the last couple years with there projectiles and none of them went far.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:03:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2016 9:04:06 PM EDT by Talenel]
My wife has a new PINK accented scope arriving tomorrow so I have to sight it in Friday.

I will bring my Chronograph and maybe do a few odd loads to test >.>

eta: spelling >.>
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