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Posted: 1/27/2011 5:49:10 PM EDT
OK. . .this may be a really dumb question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway.

Is there any real reason why I couldn't build a .22-250 AR???

So far as I can see the only reason it would possibly not work is the OAL of the .22-250 vs. the .223. . .the .22-250 is 0.095" longer overall than the .223, but the rim diameter is the same as the .450 Bushmaster at 0.473". . .

. . .I did do a little checking and the .22-250 round won't fit into my 6.8 mags, the tip of the bullet just comes in contact with the front magazine wall, but is there any reason why you couldn't seat the bullet slightly deeper to achieve the same OAL as the .223??? I don't currently reload so I don't know if that would be a "bad" idea. . .

. . .true, the down side is that I would have to reload all the ammo, but since I've already got 6.8 and I'm thinking of building a .450 Bushmaster upper reloading is something that I'm going to be starting soon anyway. . .

. . .the reason I was thinking of this is that I already have a Weatherby Vanguard in .22-250 and I much prefer the .22-250 over the .223, and see no need for a .223 when I have a .22-250, but it would be cool to have a .22 centerfire AR as well. Shouldn't make much difference if you have the barrel blank headspaced for my ammo. . .I would have to make sure that I kept the Weatherby's ammo seperate from the AR's, but that would be relatively easy as well. . .the Weatherby shoots about 1/4 MOA at 100 yards and 1/2 MOA at 200 yards (5-shot groups) with el-cheapo Winchester USA Super-X 45 gr. JHP's ($20 per 50 round box so I have no intention of reloading for the Weatherby).

Anyway, I was just curious and wondering if someone with more knowledge in this area than I do would care to chime in on.

Thanks!!!
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:18:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:18:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2011 6:18:45 PM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:20:48 PM EDT
223 WSSM is out there in the Ar and faster than 22-250
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:53:57 PM EDT
No problemet, Get a 308 lower, good luck.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 7:19:40 PM EDT
It should be easy enough to get one made, it would just be an ar10 with a custom barrel... The easiest way I would think would be to buy an AR .243Win and sell the barrel on EE, use that money to get a barrel made in .22-250
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 7:22:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2011 7:24:24 PM EDT by cmeyer001]
22-250 parent case is .250-3000 savage, similar in size to 308, you would need to build this on an AR10 receiver.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 4:55:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2011 5:01:30 AM EDT by anesvick]
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 WSSM is out there in the Ar and faster than 22-250


^^^ What he said ^^^

and quite frankly, if you roll your own, you can get damn near the same performance out of .223, for a lot less money.

but if you want to go with something larger, I think a .243 makes a great long range varmint round and would also be very useful as a tactical/target round with just a switch in bullet weights.

22-250 is limited in use, and like the 308 and 30-06 it needs to go off into the sunset and never be heard from again.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 5:01:02 AM EDT
If you are going to go .22-250, you might want to the think about the .22-250 AI. I've chrono'ed rounds at 4400 fps with a 36 gr Barnes varmint grenade in a 1:12 barrel. I don't care who you are, that's cruising!!
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 5:22:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By anesvick:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 WSSM is out there in the Ar and faster than 22-250


^^^ What he said ^^^

and quite frankly, if you roll your own, you can get damn near the same performance out of .223, for a lot less money.

but if you want to go with something larger, I think a .243 makes a great long range varmint round and would also be very useful as a tactical/target round with just a switch in bullet weights.

22-250 is limited in use, and like the 308 and 30-06 it needs to go off into the sunset and never be heard from again.


LOL.. what? Are you referring to the same .308 and .30-06 that are the two of the most popular calibers in the US? Why on earth would they go off into the sunset?


Link Posted: 1/28/2011 6:02:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
DP.


Does "DP" stand for "dumb post"?

If so, I thought I covered that when I said that it might be a dumb question. . .
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 6:03:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 WSSM is out there in the Ar and faster than 22-250


I'll have to check the .223 WSSM out, thanks for pointing that out!

Link Posted: 1/28/2011 6:06:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By anesvick:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 WSSM is out there in the Ar and faster than 22-250



22-250 is limited in use, and like the 308 and 30-06 it needs to go off into the sunset and never be heard from again.


I don't think the .22-250 needs to go off into the sunset at all. . .it's more useful than the .204 Ruger round that everyone is so gaga about.

In WA I can use my .22-250 for mountain lion as well as smaller varmints. . .would you trust a .204 Ruger to take down a 180 lbs. of angry cat???

Besides, I wasn't debating the viability of the round in general; I was just wondering if it would be possible/safe to do. . .sounds like it's not a good idea.



Link Posted: 1/28/2011 6:07:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tamarac:
If you are going to go .22-250, you might want to the think about the .22-250 AI. I've chrono'ed rounds at 4400 fps with a 36 gr Barnes varmint grenade in a 1:12 barrel. I don't care who you are, that's cruising!!



I've looked at this round in the past (when I first got my Weatherby) but I haven't looked at it since I took the .22-250 to the range the first time and it shot so well. . .I figured that was one rifle that I could leave well enough alone on. I'll go back and take another look at it though.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 6:19:30 AM EDT
I'd buy a 22-250 AR platform. 22-250 is one of my favorite rounds
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 7:18:48 AM EDT
Same here, that's why I'm asking. . .

. . .did you know that a .22-250 penetrates steel plate better than a .30-06???
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 9:33:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By anesvick:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 WSSM is out there in the Ar and faster than 22-250



22-250 is limited in use, and like the 308 and 30-06 it needs to go off into the sunset and never be heard from again.


.223 will do everything a 22-250 will out to 300 yards ––- past 300 , the .22-250 walks away from it big time. Not sure what your thinking is on the .308 and 'o6
though. Both cartridges are made to shoot things larger than 40 pound coyotes and prairie dogs. They even brought the dusty 'ol M-14 out to play in the sandbox a bit –– i'm sure they would have let them be if the 308 was obsolete . .30-06 is good for 150 more fps than the .308. Your shoulder may not know the difference, but that moose's shoulder at 250 yards might.

(unless your just trolling, and if so, troll away )
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 10:58:22 AM EDT
If you are going custom, the .22 BRX will fit in a standard AR15. It is just a bit below the .22-.250 and a lot more than .223 Remington.

The .223 WSM is a bit of a stretch in the standard bolt diameter. There are better bolts made for the .473" diameter case head for AR15 sized carriers. And the .22 BRX (a .22 BR blown out 0.100 in the shoulder) has plenty of room for longer bullet seating.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 5:51:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By streetstar:
Originally Posted By anesvick:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 WSSM is out there in the Ar and faster than 22-250



22-250 is limited in use, and like the 308 and 30-06 it needs to go off into the sunset and never be heard from again.


.223 will do everything a 22-250 will out to 300 yards ––- past 300 , the .22-250 walks away from it big time. Not sure what your thinking is on the .308 and 'o6
though. Both cartridges are made to shoot things larger than 40 pound coyotes and prairie dogs. They even brought the dusty 'ol M-14 out to play in the sandbox a bit –– i'm sure they would have let them be if the 308 was obsolete . .30-06 is good for 150 more fps than the .308. Your shoulder may not know the difference, but that moose's shoulder at 250 yards might.

(unless your just trolling, and if so, troll away )


Big fan of the M14/M1A. . .getting ready to start an M14 build and will be using the Troy M14 SASS chassis for it and rechambering it for .308. . .that's one of the reasons I don't want to go .308 on an AR platform and I have no desire to build an AR10, I'm fine with my AR15,

I'm a tool & die maker by trade and a bunch of the guys in my shop are gunsmiths/reloaders on the side and we started discussing this today. . .I may have something that will make this work for me, but I need to do a little more research before I post anymore.

Thanks for the help and info guys!!!

Link Posted: 1/28/2011 5:53:45 PM EDT
After looking into the .223 WSSM I don't think that's the route I would want to go with an AR. . .looks like it would be good for a bolt gun, but with that fat case and super steep shoulder I would think it would result in feeding problems in an AR!!!
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 6:15:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By streetstar:
Originally Posted By anesvick:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 WSSM is out there in the Ar and faster than 22-250



22-250 is limited in use, and like the 308 and 30-06 it needs to go off into the sunset and never be heard from again.


.223 will do everything a 22-250 will out to 300 yards ––- past 300 , the .22-250 walks away from it big time. Not sure what your thinking is on the .308 and 'o6
though. Both cartridges are made to shoot things larger than 40 pound coyotes and prairie dogs. They even brought the dusty 'ol M-14 out to play in the sandbox a bit –– i'm sure they would have let them be if the 308 was obsolete . .30-06 is good for 150 more fps than the .308. Your shoulder may not know the difference, but that moose's shoulder at 250 yards might.

(unless your just trolling, and if so, troll away )


Not trolling, but I just feel that the 6mm and 6.5mm rounds offer better BC bullets than the popular 30 cal rounds, and for pure range are far better options. I mean, c'mon, how big of a pain in the ass is it to get a 308 out to 1000 yards accurately with it always going trans-sonic?

and than they work better than the 22s for varminting due to the aforementioned Ballistic coefficient benefits and better ability to deal with wind.

Give me a 6.5x55 or 260 remington and I can take anything in north america, at longer range than a 308 or 30-06

seriously OP, get what you want, I'm just throwing info out there.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 6:38:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By anesvick:
Originally Posted By streetstar:
Originally Posted By anesvick:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 WSSM is out there in the Ar and faster than 22-250



22-250 is limited in use, and like the 308 and 30-06 it needs to go off into the sunset and never be heard from again.


.223 will do everything a 22-250 will out to 300 yards ––- past 300 , the .22-250 walks away from it big time. Not sure what your thinking is on the .308 and 'o6
though. Both cartridges are made to shoot things larger than 40 pound coyotes and prairie dogs. They even brought the dusty 'ol M-14 out to play in the sandbox a bit –– i'm sure they would have let them be if the 308 was obsolete . .30-06 is good for 150 more fps than the .308. Your shoulder may not know the difference, but that moose's shoulder at 250 yards might.

(unless your just trolling, and if so, troll away )


Not trolling, but I just feel that the 6mm and 6.5mm rounds offer better BC bullets than the popular 30 cal rounds, and for pure range are far better options. I mean, c'mon, how big of a pain in the ass is it to get a 308 out to 1000 yards accurately with it always going trans-sonic?

and than they work better than the 22s for varminting due to the aforementioned Ballistic coefficient benefits and better ability to deal with wind.

Give me a 6.5x55 or 260 remington and I can take anything in north america, at longer range than a 308 or 30-06

seriously OP, get what you want, I'm just throwing info out there.


Hey man. . .I totally feel you. . .I'm a big fan of the 6mm and 6.5mm family. . .and I'm a HUGE fan of the 6.5-284 and the next bolt rifle I make (besides the .50 cal that I'm currently designing in SolidWorks) will more than likely be a 6.5-284. . .

. . .but tall of the aforementioned rounds are WAY too long for an AR!!!






Link Posted: 1/28/2011 6:48:51 PM EDT
OK. . .think about these facts:

-Olympic Arms offers a .223 WSSM conversion for the AR15 which includes a magazine

-the overall length of the .223 WSSM is 2.36"

-the overall length of the .22-250 is 2.35"

that makes the .22-250 0.100" shorter than the .223 WSSM, so if the .223 WSSM can be made to work in an AR15 why couldn't you use the .22-250 in an AR utilizing a .223 WSSM magazine with a different follower (I'm assuming that Olympic Arms must make the .223 WSSM magazines to the high side of the tolerance of the magazine fitting into the magazine well. . .I've checked and the .22-250 fits into the magazine well with room for magazine walls to spare)

More info that I've considered:

-the .450 Bushmaster rim diameter is 0.473" and a rim thickness of 0.054"

-the .22-250 rim diameter is 0.473", I don't know what the rim thickness of the .22-250 is (I haven't located that info yet), but I'm going to assume (for now) that it's the same as the .450 Bushmaster

. . .so one could use a .450 Bushmaster bolt for the .22-250 in conjunction with a .223 WSSM magazine (with a different follower if necessary. . .granted it's not a high capacity mag, but it's a mag that will fit a longer round and still fit the AR15). . .the only thing that leaves to do is get an AR15 barrel blank in .223 and ream the chamber to to the correct headspace for the .22-250 round (you could even go with a chrome lined bore if you're worried about barrel life). . .

. . .the other route I was initially considering was trimming the .22-250 case down in lenght by a little bit so the round will fit in a standard AR magazine, using the .450 Bushmaster bolt, and a barrel blanked reamed to the correct headspace for the slightly shorter .22-250. . .

. . either one of these routes seem viable (a little work, but definitely viable).
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 6:51:55 PM EDT
By the way. . .I'm getting ready to build a new upper/barrel assembly in .450 Bushmaster. . .so bonus for me if it would work for the .22-250. . .

. . .also, I just think that the .22-250 is a WAY better round than the .223; that and the fact that I already have a .22-250 are the reasons why I'm pursuing this.

I looked up the chamber pressures today as well (one of the guys at work thought that the .22-250 chamber pressures might be too high for the AR) and the .22-250 chamber pressure is rated at 65,000 psi which is in line with other calibers that the AR is already commercially chambered for.

Let me know what you guys think. . .
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 7:29:42 PM EDT
Interesting read, OP I hope that you can do it, that would be one smokin fast AR -
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 9:17:02 PM EDT
Right now I don't see a reason why it can't be done. . .

. . .that's not to say there isn't a reason, but right now a real reason hasn't presented itself.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 10:17:03 PM EDT
I haven't messed with 22-250 AR's... but from what I understand from a guy I know who had an AR-10 built in 22-250, the big issue is the case taper, the rounds don't like to sit more than 2-3 deep in a magazine, they start binding.

You could probably use the single stack VLD type magazines that put the bullets right in the center where the mags are longer(by a very small amount)

I believe armalite did a run of 22-250 AR-10s and they had the magazine issue as well... From where I'm sitting, if a large manufacturer can't get something to work, it's probably more trouble than it's worth to get it working right.

Maybe a curved single stack magazine similar to the 7.62x39 AR mags would work better, but you'd need to design your own followers and inserts to keep the bullets in the center

Good luck
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 10:20:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By anesvick:

like the 308 and 30-06 it needs to go off into the sunset and never be heard from again.





Link Posted: 1/29/2011 5:04:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Soggydoggy:

I believe armalite did a run of 22-250 AR-10s and they had the magazine issue as well... From where I'm sitting, if a large manufacturer can't get something to work, it's probably more trouble than it's worth to get it working right.




There you go.
With only being able to get 5 or 6 rounds in a magazine and still function, you'd be better off sticking to your bolt gun with 4 rounds in the blind mag.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 8:29:45 AM EDT
We'll see. . .doesn't sound like a legit reason to me. . .

. . .the .223 WSSM has a WAY steeper shoulder than the .22-250 and Olympic Arms is offering it for the AR's. . .

. . .so what if you can only fit 5-6 rounds in the magazine, that's still 3-4 more than I can fit in a bolt gun, and I'm getting ready to get some 10-round mag's for my 6.8 for at the range, because the long 25 & 30-round mags are too long for my bench rest. . .

. . .some states have limits on how many rounds can be held in a hunting rifle as well.

Not saying I don't like high-cap mag's, just saying depending on the application they aren't always necessary. . .unless I encounter an entire pack of ravenous coyotes who are bound and determined to not let the first 5 rounds downrange deter them from that single dying rabbit then 5 rounds should be enough.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 8:35:11 AM EDT
I agree that you don't need high cap mags in a hunting/target rig, I'm just pointing out that the round itself causes problems, I don't know if the 22-250 AI has straighter case walls, but if it does, that may help with the magazine/feeding issues.

In my opinion, anything is worth trying, but you might end up with a really expensive single shot, or it might work really nice.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 12:47:02 PM EDT
The WSSM offered for AR15 uses curved 30 round mags that single stack the rounds. The AR10 is a double stack straight mag.



Just went back and saw you want one in an AR15 package. There's probably a good reason it hasn't been done yet, plus seating factory rounds that much deeper could be catastrophic. You'd have to work loads up at that much shorter of an OAL. Then you have to figure out the gas port size, a much heavier buffer weight, and maybe an enlarged ejection door.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 7:25:38 PM EDT
Might check out the 22DTI and 6mmDTI.
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