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Posted: 1/1/2005 9:19:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2005 12:19:23 PM EDT by No1Here]
.
Link Posted: 1/1/2005 9:41:22 PM EDT

I'm looking at Wolf.

The loose XM (at military presures) looks like a mishap/disaster waiting to happen.
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 12:59:54 AM EDT
the prices on reman black hills around my area isnt so bad
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 3:01:00 AM EDT
I live in the city where Black Hills ammo is produced. I can get it at very reasonable price. We can also get "seconds" which are scratched and slightly dendted. I dont know if these are available everywhere but they are very cheap and just as reliable and accurate as anything else. And there is no shortage of any kind here. Some of the best ammo i have ever had.
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 3:27:26 AM EDT
One of my local dealers seems to always have FAE 55 gr, and I and my 1x9 DPMS have always liked that ammo, so if worse comes to worst and that is all I can get, I'll be OK with that.

Meanwhile what XM193 and XM855 I do have is being reserved for SHTF or TITO (Terrorists In The Open).
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 4:06:21 AM EDT
If you look at the ammo FAQ, one of the most reliable and low cost ammunition available is Winchester white box, which is new production.

I have found the stuff to be moderately accurate (more so than Wolf, in my experience) and low priced. Latest Shotgun News had two vendors right around $169 per 1000.

My 0.02

Happy New Year,

Michael
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 4:07:48 AM EDT
No IMI?
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 10:33:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By akethan:
No IMI?



It's drying up too.
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 12:20:39 PM EDT
How about Georgia Arms reloads?
www.georgia-arms.com/canned_heat.htm
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 1:24:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR_prof:
If you look at the ammo FAQ, one of the most reliable and low cost ammunition available is Winchester white box, which is new production.

I have found the stuff to be moderately accurate (more so than Wolf, in my experience) and low priced. Latest Shotgun News had two vendors right around $169 per 1000.

My 0.02

Happy New Year,

Michael



+1
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 2:28:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 7:
How about Georgia Arms reloads?
www.georgia-arms.com/canned_heat.htm




I have picked up this ammo several times at the gun shows around here.

Always goes bang, is clean and seems to be fairly accurate.



Link Posted: 1/2/2005 6:12:05 PM EDT
What shortages?

Q3131a and Xm193 is just a click away.
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 6:16:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
What shortages?

Q3131a and Xm193 is just a click away.

not really. Most are out of stock
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 7:40:40 PM EDT

She is calling to me. She is calling to me...



Link Posted: 1/2/2005 8:16:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 7:
How about Georgia Arms reloads?
www.georgia-arms.com/canned_heat.htm



Does Georgia Arms crimp the necks on their .223 Canned Heat?
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 8:27:20 PM EDT
What about this stuff?

5.56
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 9:59:35 PM EDT
Well I have my stash of boxed XM193 for SHTF, but during the shortages I plan on shooting a bunch of Wolf 62gr FMJ as well as the 2000rds of Santa Barbara I have. I also picked up 3 cases of PMC 55gr FMJ-BT, which my guns really love. I'm thinking about giving some of the Igman/Hotshot SS109 a try too. I just dont want to dip into my SHTF stash.
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 10:38:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By medicmandan:
What about this stuff?

5.56



Supposedly not quite as hot as your standard 5.56, due to the fact that it is made to cycle just right in the British rifles.
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 11:50:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 1:01:02 AM EDT
UMC and American Eagle as i got 1000 rnds each on the way and going to Wal-Mart today to buy another 10 boxes of value pack 40 rnd
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 1:04:36 AM EDT
Well I got some Remington at a show really cheap awhile back, along with cleaning out sports athority on thier last ammo sale. I still got some S&B also.

Plus I still got plenty of Wolf sitting around.
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 1:29:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2005 1:47:33 AM EDT by marcoh]

Originally Posted By Robert2011:
She is calling to me. She is calling to me...




Yeah, that $99/1000 was a Siren Song to me too, and best of all, no rocky shoals.

ETA: I also have 2000 rounds of XM193 and 500 of XM855 that I'm keeping around for

(1) A rainy day

(2) Zombies

(3) To sell to the I-only-use-mil-contract-ammo crowd. I figure once prices skyrocket, I can pay off the Zombies and still have plenty of $$$ left over.

Link Posted: 1/3/2005 5:43:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackeye:

Originally Posted By 7:
How about Georgia Arms reloads?
www.georgia-arms.com/canned_heat.htm




I have picked up this ammo several times at the gun shows around here.

Always goes bang, is clean and seems to be fairly accurate.






G.A. works good for me and as mentioned above get it at the gun shows and save shipping$
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 5:47:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By ColSanders:
Supposedly not quite as hot as your standard 5.56, due to the fact that it is made to cycle just right in the British rifles.



That's true of some lots, and not of others. Unfortunately, there's really no way to tell what you're going to get. I doubt the Brits even told the importer, and the importer certainly didn't pass that on to the distributers.

-Troy



Glad I found out before I ordered any.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 5:48:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A96HondaAccordEX:

Originally Posted By markm:
What shortages?

Q3131a and Xm193 is just a click away.

not really. Most are out of stock




Ammoman and Wholesale hunter both have it.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 6:07:12 PM EDT
I just checked Whole Sale Hunter and they are out.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 6:59:55 PM EDT
Where else can you get stripper-clipped, bandoleered, ammo-canned ammo?

The British stuff looks interesting, are there alternatives?

Regards all.

Dave
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 8:07:20 PM EDT
Are you guys looking for THIS??????

Lake City XM193 from Sportman's Guide - $179.97 (Member price $170.97)
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 8:44:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 3:11:40 AM EDT
WholesaleHunter just posted in another thread that he does have a few (<100) cases of XM193 in stock.
I'd love to say I ordered 10 cases.

The truth is, I have 500 rounds on the way.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 3:45:42 AM EDT
Eric at AMMOMAN.COM sent a note Tuesday that he had just received 400 cases of the XM193 in boxes. I ordered mine.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 4:05:24 AM EDT
I'm leaving the Q3131A in the closet and shooting Brown Bear. It works fine in my Bushmaster and my steel plates can't tell the difference.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 4:25:14 AM EDT
Be careful about ammo vendors gouging their XM193 prices just because the ammo is drying up. Refuse to pay the high price and shoot cheaper ammo in the meantime.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 7:01:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:
Where else can you get stripper-clipped, bandoleered, ammo-canned ammo?

The British stuff looks interesting, are there alternatives?

Regards all.

Dave



+ 1 million. Has anyone bought this stuff from Aim surplus? Is it any good?
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:09:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Be careful about ammo vendors gouging their XM193 prices just because the ammo is drying up. Refuse to pay the high price and shoot cheaper ammo in the meantime.



How long do you think the "cheaper ammo" will remain cheaper Metro?
This is a real and potentially long term shortage, not some vender generated panic.

I would expect to see the price of Wolf and all other .223 go up within the next few weeks/months.
This is simple supply and demand working as it should, not ". . . ammo vendors gouging" us.

Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:47:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 10:48:37 AM EDT by marcoh]

Originally Posted By BroncoMafia:

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Be careful about ammo vendors gouging their XM193 prices just because the ammo is drying up. Refuse to pay the high price and shoot cheaper ammo in the meantime.


How long do you think the "cheaper ammo" will remain cheaper Metro?
This is a real and potentially long term shortage, not some vender generated panic.
I would expect to see the price of Wolf and all other .223 go up within the next few weeks/months.
This is simple supply and demand working as it should, not ". . . ammo vendors gouging" us.



I agree completely with BroncoMafia. That's why I think it's time for all "cheaper ammo" buyers not only to let the I-only-shoot-mil-contract-ammo crowd say whatever they want about our ammo choices, but to agree wholeheartedly with whatever they have to say.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:09:43 AM EDT
Any if you will even find any within the next 6 months
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:20:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Robert2011:
She is calling to me. She is calling to me...


photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DispThumb.asp?sAccountUnq=37559&iGalleryUnq=1302&sThumbnail=wolfsiren.jpg



Awwwww. How could you do that to Waterhouse?!?

</hijack>
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 6:08:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 6:09:41 PM EDT by thompsondd]

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By thompsondd:
Are you guys looking for THIS??????

Lake City XM193 from Sportman's Guide - $179.97 (Member price $170.97)



No. The 500-round loose boxes are the XM193PD, which we know is still available. People are looking for the 20-round boxes (usually bought by the case), which aren't in stock at SG, and probably won't be for a long time.

-Troy



Yeah, that's what I just found out today. My two (2) 1000rd cases of Lake City "XM193" turns out to be four (4) 500rd boxes of loose packed "XM193PD".

Boy am I pissed.

SG clearly advertises this as "XM193". They never mention CRAP about it being "XM193PD".

I have already fired off an email to them. I doubt it will do much good as their return policy clearly states that they do not accept ammo returns due to safety reasons ( although they have no problem shipping it out ????).

I am already preparing the credit dispute form as we speak.

Right now, I have almost $400 worth of shit ammo that may blow up in my face. GREAT!!!
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 6:22:09 PM EDT
Wear you saftey glasses
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 6:44:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 6:45:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 6:46:37 PM EDT by Smitty59]


Yeah, that's what I just found out today. My two (2) 1000rd cases of Lake City "XM193" turns out to be four (4) 500rd boxes of loose packed "XM193PD".

Boy am I pissed.

SG clearly advertises this as "XM193". They never mention CRAP about it being "XM193PD".

I have already fired off an email to them. I doubt it will do much good as their return policy clearly states that they do not accept ammo returns due to safety reasons ( although they have no problem shipping it out ????).

I am already preparing the credit dispute form as we speak.

Right now, I have almost $400 worth of shit ammo that may blow up in my face. GREAT!!!




I thought it was quite clear that this was loose ammo. I ordered 1,000 online and had occcasion to speak to someone over the phone because something looked wrong on my e-mail confirmation. I spoke to 2 different people on 2 separate occasions and both pointed out that it was not boxed but loose ammo. It seems like it pops up on their screen when they pull it up.

I've had 1,000 boxed XM193 on order at Wholesale Hunter for some time. Still waiting. I'll put this on bandoleers in cans and use the loose XM193PD from SG for shooting. Based on posts I've seen this stuff is OK but should be inspected carefully for damage and improper seating of the bullet. From what I can tell the boxes are slightly over on the count and the fallout is minimal. YMMV.

Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:57:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By marcoh:

Originally Posted By BroncoMafia:

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Be careful about ammo vendors gouging their XM193 prices just because the ammo is drying up. Refuse to pay the high price and shoot cheaper ammo in the meantime.


How long do you think the "cheaper ammo" will remain cheaper Metro?
This is a real and potentially long term shortage, not some vender generated panic.
I would expect to see the price of Wolf and all other .223 go up within the next few weeks/months.
This is simple supply and demand working as it should, not ". . . ammo vendors gouging" us.



I agree completely with BroncoMafia. That's why I think it's time for all "cheaper ammo" buyers not only to let the I-only-shoot-mil-contract-ammo crowd say whatever they want about our ammo choices, but to agree wholeheartedly with whatever they have to say.



I completely disagree. LONG TERM STORAGE? The LC brass is marked 04 on a lot of my XM193 from Lot 075. How long term storage is that if it was stamped the same year?

Dealers are just gouging prices because of the "shortage" of ammo, just like dealers are selling mags for $20 when they should be selling at $10-$15.

I'm sure by the end of this year, .223 ammo will still roll in. Just give it time. The sheeple generally panic when ammo starts to slow down and the dealers see this and start jacking up prices.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 9:11:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 9:16:40 AM EDT by JJessup]
huh? he said "shortage" not 'storage'
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 5:22:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Dealers are just gouging prices because of the "shortage" of ammo, just like dealers are selling mags for $20 when they should be selling at $10-$15.



Do you understand anything about supply and demand Metro?

Honestly, I'm not trying to slam you or make fun of you, but I really wonder if you understand any of
my last post at all.

I understand your skepticism about ammo shortages. I have spent the last 6 years feeding a MAJOR surplus ammo addiction in multiple calibers (5.56, .308, 7.62x39, 5.45, 12 guage, 9mm, .45) and there have been times when people claimed "the sky is falling" for surplus ammo, and people had good reason to believe it just because of the nature of the market:
* importing ammo is difficult and timelines are unpredictable (customs delays, etc.)
* quality surplus ammo availability has never been regular.
* the UN small arms proliferation treaty forcing most of the best surplus ammo source countries out of the business completely.

All of these factors are still in place, but when it comes to Mil spec 5.56, we have a new unique factor in the market that is very real: The WOT is using more ammo than our favorite vendors can produce.
the shortage caused by this situation is real and the resulting price increase is predictable and justified (law of supply/demand).

The problem is NOT the dealers.
If you were down to your last case of XM193 and knew you couldn't get more for a long long time, would you sell it to a stranger for the same price you paid for it when it was plentiful?
Of course not.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 11:44:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 7:
How about Georgia Arms reloads?
www.georgia-arms.com/canned_heat.htm

All of my .223/5.56 rifles, bolt action or other, just love it to bits.

I'm planning a major (5K ±) buy from them soon.

As soon as I figure out just how much SS109 I need I'll be placing a call to them.

So far 2K of subsonic 9mm lead, 1k or 2K of 55 grain FMJBT, and I don't know how yet of SS109.

But I'll figure it out.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:06:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 10:06:34 AM EDT by kensteele]

Originally Posted By BroncoMafia:

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Dealers are just gouging prices because of the "shortage" of ammo, just like dealers are selling mags for $20 when they should be selling at $10-$15.



Do you understand anything about supply and demand Metro?

Honestly, I'm not trying to slam you or make fun of you, but I really wonder if you understand any of
my last post at all.

I understand your skepticism about ammo shortages. I have spent the last 6 years feeding a MAJOR surplus ammo addiction in multiple calibers (5.56, .308, 7.62x39, 5.45, 12 guage, 9mm, .45) and there have been times when people claimed "the sky is falling" for surplus ammo, and people had good reason to believe it just because of the nature of the market:
* importing ammo is difficult and timelines are unpredictable (customs delays, etc.)
* quality surplus ammo availability has never been regular.
* the UN small arms proliferation treaty forcing most of the best surplus ammo source countries out of the business completely.

All of these factors are still in place, but when it comes to Mil spec 5.56, we have a new unique factor in the market that is very real: The WOT is using more ammo than our favorite vendors can produce.
the shortage caused by this situation is real and the resulting price increase is predictable and justified (law of supply/demand).

The problem is NOT the dealers.
If you were down to your last case of XM193 and knew you couldn't get more for a long long time, would you sell it to a stranger for the same price you paid for it when it was plentiful?
Of course not.



Don't waste your breathe. In the past, I have found that explaining business practices, the laws of supply and demand, pricing strategies, and capitalism to anyone outside of a formal classroom setting is almost an impossible task. Mainly because the classroom setting builds upon concepts that you learn over time that allows this all to make sense and also because if you're in the classroom, you probably WANT to learn it. You can tell by his last statement which included the word "gouging" and his characterization of "shortage" that he's not getting it.

I have eight 500 rd cases of XM193 boxed on my floor right now. They can be had for no less than $299 per 500...plus shipping*. That's not gouging, not even close. You can't gouge ammunition at ANY price. There's no catastrophy, I'm not the only convenient seller, it's not unlawful, ammo is not a necessity. I'm sure potential buyers will vote with their dollars, when I don't get any bids, the message to me is "the price is too high." So I lower the price or I just end up keeping my ammo. However if someone pays me for it, it's a win-win situation, believe it or not.

*Disclaimer: Currently I have no such ammo for sell, I'm keeping everything I have for now. It was only a hypothetical example of what I would price it at IF I even thought about selling it, which I'm not.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 9:02:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:
Where else can you get stripper-clipped, bandoleered, ammo-canned ammo?

The British stuff looks interesting, are there alternatives?

Regards all.

Dave





would also like to know if there are decent ammo like this out there
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 9:45:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:

Originally Posted By 7:
How about Georgia Arms reloads?
www.georgia-arms.com/canned_heat.htm

All of my .223/5.56 rifles, bolt action or other, just love it to bits.

I'm planning a major (5K ±) buy from them soon.

As soon as I figure out just how much SS109 I need I'll be placing a call to them.

So far 2K of subsonic 9mm lead, 1k or 2K of 55 grain FMJBT, and I don't know how yet of SS109.

But I'll figure it out.




why isnT this ammo not as popular as the rest of THE .223 out there? is it becasue its reloaded? also is this canned heat 5.56 or is it commercial .233?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:14:45 AM EDT
I can get my hands on PMC or AE.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 4:20:38 PM EDT
I really like the Georgia Arms canned heat reloads and the Black Hills remanufactured, but I don't know the true velocity of either and I really would like to know before relying on either for more than plinking.
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