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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/14/2004 6:03:03 PM EST
Just curious as I'm looking to buy/build my first AR and am compiling a list of possibilities.

I did just see the new Bushie Desert Camo M4gery at a shop in Asheville for $895, and loved the two-tone look, but I wasn't sold right off. Can I get cheaper? Would this be a good first for a guy with no experience with the weapon platform?

The things I'm hearing about the standard gas system isn't that great, though it seems to be reliable if you really keep things clean. What about different systems? Are there many? Are they proofed?

Does ZMW sell just uppers?

This promises to be fun. Thanks for listening.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:29:43 PM EST
there is nothing wrong with the gas system on an ar, all of mine will do at least 1000 rds before needing cleaning


i think zm sells only complete guns, buti may be mistaken about it
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:41:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By VaughnT:
Just curious as I'm looking to buy/build my first AR and am compiling a list of possibilities.

I did just see the new Bushie Desert Camo M4gery at a shop in Asheville for $895, and loved the two-tone look, but I wasn't sold right off. Can I get cheaper? Would this be a good first for a guy with no experience with the weapon platform?

The things I'm hearing about the standard gas system isn't that great, though it seems to be reliable if you really keep things clean. What about different systems? Are there many? Are they proofed?

Does ZMW sell just uppers?

This promises to be fun. Thanks for listening.



You've been hearing alot of about the gas system...

Basically, it's the best gas system available for a semi-auto rifle. Anyone who says otherwise is either (a) full of it, or (b) an AK fan who doesn't care about hitting shit, so long as they can dump 200 drums at full auto, light their handguards on fire, and still be able to shoot untill the gun melts their thermal mitts...

The ZM upper uses the standard AR gas system, the difference is that it relocates the recoil spring from the buttstock to around the gas tube. It is still a direct gas system, and is the only 'alternative' AR upper design worth bothering with...

Of course, the only reason to get a ZM upper is if you want a sidefolding stock... There is no other advantage...
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:22:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 9:23:12 PM EST by clubsoda22]

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
...an AK fan who doesn't care about hitting shit, so long as they can dump 200 drums at full auto, light their handguards on fire, and still be able to shoot untill the gun melts their thermal mitts...



Booyah. To clear up the misconception, us AK guys are happy as long as the gun shoots minute of capitalist pig.

In all seriousness, i'm a big AK fan and thought about alternate gas systems for my first AR build and after doing a little research, it took very little persuading to convince me just to go with a standard AR gas system. Seriously, you can blast hundreds of rounds through it and all you'd need to clear out the gas system is a shot of CLP and you can then go hundreds more. No you can't leave the AR in the rice patty for 3 months, kick the rusted bolt open and go, but if you treat your rifle even slightly better than a communist guerilla fighter it shouldn't let you down.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 11:09:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

(b) an AK fan who doesn't care about hitting shit....



Yup, I would say so. I was also a big AK fan when I first got into firearms. The VEPR is the only AK type rifle I have left in my collection sold off all the rest. Reason being is that the more a shot rifles the more I loved accuracy in a rifle. The AK platform is just not a very accurate set up, and costs a lot of money to accurize. AR platform lends itself to accurizing fairly easily. Once I built my Bushmaster Heavy barreled rifle with a freefloat tube, Armalite scope mount, JP Gas block and trigger, I was hooked. Not one of my AKs could ever shoot like that rifle does. Same with the FALs, I own 4 of them at this point, but I'm just not happy with the accuracy and plan on selling most of them to get the money for an Ed Brown rifle.

AK is a great rifle for reliability. For accuracy, the AR all the way!
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 11:41:43 PM EST
I was wondering about the system on these. I've been told for awhile that one reason the FAL could not be as accurate as an AR is the piston system, now you are saying that this doesn't have a piston, but the recoil spring is around the gas tube. How does this effect accary as I was also told that A FAL could never truly be freefloated due to the gas system, it seems that the spring around the gas tube must be attached to the FSB, doesn't this effect anything?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:22:18 AM EST
there are some extremely accurate fal rifles out there, but cubic money is the word
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:17:57 PM EST
I get MOA outa my STG. As does my friend from his IZZY.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:00:41 PM EST
Thanks for your thoughts on the matter, gents. I've been pondering this something fierce and am very glad that everyone gives the thumbs up for the design.

Somehow, that side-folding stock on the ZM just doesn't look right. Now I can go with something else and not feel like I missed 'the coming thing'.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:59:26 PM EST
I own a ZM. Alan Zitta is the owner/manufacturer. You can buy pre-ban/post-ban uppers from him. Here's his website: http://www.zmweapons.com/lr-300ml.htm
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