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Posted: 9/21/2006 5:41:18 AM EDT
[#1]
OLDER PIC:
 MACHINED AFTER FORGING OF TOP QUALITY MATERIAL TO THE HIGHER, I.E., "TIGHT" END OF THE SPECIFICATIONS. MORE COMPLETE CONTACT UPON LOCK-UP WITH THE INSIDE OF THE UPPER RECEIVER. AND, YES, A TOP-NOTCH FINISH, TO BOOT. MAKE SURE THE KEY IS PROPERLY STAKED. HERE'S THE WAY WE'RE DOING THEM NOW:  PRIOR TO STAKING, THE MATING SURFACES BETWEEN THE CARRIER AND THE KEY SHOULD BE CLEAN AND DRY. RED LOCTITE PROVIDES EXTRA INSURANCE. THE TORQUE ON THE SCREWS IS 35 - 40 IN-LB. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 9/21/2006 9:04:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Wes,
How's the quality of the Young chrome plated bolt? Are they MP tested and how well are they holding up from breaking at the cam pin hole? Lastly, is it true that Les Baer BC groups are made by Young Manufacturing? |
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Posted: 9/21/2006 9:41:50 AM EDT
[#3]
Wes,
Is that the MOACKS? Justin |
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Posted: 9/21/2006 9:56:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Wes, I just read Pat Rogers article in SWAT on staking keys and I could have sworn he quoted a higher torque value, something like 50-58 inch-lbs IIRC. I also recall he quoted a TO on staking procedures, I assume that's where he got the data from. Are you sure the number you quoted is correct? That's a pretty decent difference. Just curious. |
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Posted: 9/21/2006 9:58:34 AM EDT
[#5]
I HAVE NEVER USED THEIR BOLTS, MYSELF. I AM CONFIDENT THEY WOULD BE TOP NOTCH, HOWEVER, LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE Y/M MAKES. CORRECT - YOUNG MFG ORIGINALLY DESIGNED, PATENTED, AND NOW MAKES THE LES BAER CUSTOM BOLT CARRIER. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 9/21/2006 9:59:56 AM EDT
[#6]
YES. |
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Posted: 9/21/2006 10:40:28 AM EDT
[#7]
Wes,
Thanks for the info! BTW, what bolt do you use with the Young Manf. chromed carrier?
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Posted: 9/21/2006 12:49:37 PM EDT
[#8]
WITH OUR CUSTOM PRECISION UPPERS, WE USE MP-TESTED FITTED BOLTS BY OUR BARRELMAKERS, NOVESKE RIFLEWORKS AND COMPASS LAKE ENGINEERING.
NOVESKE USES STAG. WE BUY STAG AND LMT MP-TESTED BOLTS AND PROVIDE THEM TO COMPASS LAKE TO USE IN THE BARRELS THEY MAKE FOR US. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 9/21/2006 1:52:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Do you sell these still Wes?
How much am I looking at for just a chrome carrier, be it young or les baer marked? Also, I seem to recall these carriers are lightened ... this true? |
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Posted: 9/21/2006 2:16:54 PM EDT
[#10]
WE SELL THE Y/M NAT'L MATCH CARRIER FOR $145 AND THE LES BAER CUSTOM FOR $195. BOTH ARE FULL M-16 WEIGHT. YOUNG MFG MAKES A LIGHTENED VERSION WE USE IN OUR COMPETITION UPPERS. WE DO NOT OFFER THAT CARRIER SEPARATELY.  WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 9/22/2006 12:27:28 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 9/22/2006 4:02:47 AM EDT
[#12]
HERE'S AN OLDER 1999 VINTAGE YOUNG MFG CARRIER:
 HERE'S A CURRENT LBC VERSION:  THEY ARE IDENTICAL. LBC PURCHASED THE PATENT FROM YOUNG MFG. YOU CAN SEE THAT THE PATENT NUMBERS ARE THE SAME.  LBC MAKES A LIGHTENED VERSION OF THIS CARRIER, WITHOUT FORWARD ASSIST NOTCHES. WE'VE NEVER BOUGHT ONE, AND I HAVE NEVER EVEN SEEN ONE, SINCE WE ALWAYS USE RECEIVERS WITH THE FORWARD ASSIST FEATURE. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 9/22/2006 8:10:03 AM EDT
[#13]
Thanks for posting the pictures. Is it the photo angle or does the rear of the carrier of the LBC have more cut away?
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Posted: 9/22/2006 8:33:43 AM EDT
[#14]
VERY OBSERVANT. YOU ARE CORRECT. WES |
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Posted: 9/22/2006 8:42:51 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 9/22/2006 9:08:01 AM EDT
[#16]
YOU GOT ME TO WONDERING THE SAME THING.
THE LBC CARRIER WEIGHS 9.4 OZ, JUST LIKE A FULL AUTO M-16 CARRIER. SURPRISINGLY, MY OLD YOUNG MFG CARRIER WEIGHED IN AT 9.6 OZ. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 9/22/2006 12:16:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Thanks for the info WES!
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Posted: 9/22/2006 12:33:28 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 9/22/2006 7:39:24 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 9/22/2006 8:03:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Just add the cost of a Bolt and you have a ballpark figure.. Ant |
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Posted: 9/23/2006 3:38:34 AM EDT
[#21]
AS STATED, $145 FOR THE YOUNG MFG CARRIER AND $195 FOR THE LES BAER CUSTOM CARRIER. WITH LMT MP-TESTED BOLT (WITH CRANE O-RING) PLUS CAM PIN, FIRING PIN, AND FIRING PIN RETAINING PIN, ADD $81. WITH STAG MP-TESTED BOLT (WITH CRANE O-RING) PLUS CAM PIN, FIRING PIN, AND FIRING PIN RETAINING PIN, ADD $70. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 9/23/2006 3:49:54 AM EDT
[#22]
damn those are pretty.
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Posted: 10/20/2006 10:15:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Brownells has the LBC version for $144 with the trade discount. They dont have the Young's MFG version.
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Posted: 10/21/2006 5:20:44 AM EDT
[#24]
WHILE THAT IS INDEED THE POSTED DEALER PRICE, FOR SOME ODD REASON HAS BEEN INCORRECT FOR YEARS. DEALER PRICE IS IN THE $165 RANGE. CALL AND ASK THEM, 800-741-0015. THIS IS PRETTY UNCHARACTERISTIC OF BROWNELL'S. ORDERING IN QUANTITY FROM LES BAER GETS YOU NO BETTER. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 10/21/2006 5:48:38 AM EDT
[#25]
Thank you for the info and pictures. I have been thinking of getting one.
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Posted: 10/21/2006 11:54:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Wes,
Why not use the Young bolt as well with the carrier? |
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Posted: 10/22/2006 3:55:20 AM EDT
[#27]
IT'S A SUPPLY ISSUE, REALLY. YOUNG MFG'S BOLTS ARE NOT ALWAYS AVAILABLE.
OUR CUSTOM PRECISION UPPERS COME WITH FITTED BOLTS FROM THE BARRELMAKERS WE USE (COMPASS LAKE AND NOVESKE). WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 10/22/2006 8:20:48 AM EDT
[#28]
Wes, I've always been curious what exactly a "fitted bolt" is. Has it indeed been fitted by removing material from an oversize part for optimal dimensions relative to the mating barrel/chamber (I'm thinking NO, since we're talking mass-produced CMT/Stag or LMT parts here)? Or, have multiple bolts perhaps been precisely measured and dimensionally categorized to mate with barrels/chambers within corresponding tolerance zones? I assume (something I hate to do less it make an a$$ of me) that we're not talking simply go/no_go checks here. Please elaborate if you can. Thanks! Aubrey |
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Posted: 10/23/2006 10:51:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Do either of these companies make a full auto version of these bolts or are they strickly for semi rifles?
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Posted: 10/23/2006 10:53:46 AM EDT
[#30]
From my limited understanding there is no difference in the bolts between the AR and M16. As to fitted bolts, I know BigBore has posted before that when he recieves 10 barrels from WOA that he also gets a bag of 10 bolts. They are not fitted to one particular barrel.
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Posted: 10/23/2006 5:24:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Then what would they be fitted to? I'm not trying to be a smart a$$; it's just that this doesn't seem logical to me. |
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Posted: 10/27/2006 8:58:36 PM EDT
[#32]
What I meant to say was; Do either of these companies make full auto versions of these bolt carriers? Or would the advantages of the carrier be lost on a full auto weapon?
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Posted: 10/27/2006 10:11:05 PM EDT
[#33]
I too have been wondering about the "fitted bolts". My roommate just received his Denny's Recon barrel with "fitted bolt" but it looks pretty ordinary to me. Just like any other MPd Stag bolt out there. The receiver extension looks just like any "4" marked receiver extension out there.
On the YM bolt carriers, the same roommate just got one of those too. It looks incredible. I basically got wood when I held it. The machining is top notch. I'm thinking of switching to some of these as well. |
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Posted: 10/27/2006 11:43:41 PM EDT
[#34]
I had pretty much dismissed all super-dooper chrome plated carriers as a really bad idea. Supposedly the US Armed Forced quit using them and took them out of service during the Viet Nam era because they were found to cause excessive and premature wear to the forged aluminum uppers. Is this not so or is there some reason the Vietnam era chrome plated arriers caused this problem that has been somehow addressed with these carriers?
Lost in Arabia |
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Posted: 10/28/2006 11:15:41 AM EDT
[#35]
That's the first time I've ever heard that. Any of our more knowledgable members care to chime in? 
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Posted: 10/28/2006 2:06:08 PM EDT
[#36]
WHY WOULD EUGENE STONER HAVE SPEC'D HARD CHROME FOR THE BOLT CARRIERS IN THE EARLY AR-15'S, AND THEN AGAIN YEARS LATER IN THE KNIGHT'S SR-25?
WE USE HARD CHROMED BEST GRADE CARRIERS ALL OF THE TIME WITH NO SUCH WEAR ISSUES WHATSOEVER. I'M COMPLETELY SOLD ON THEM. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 10/28/2006 9:16:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Does the chromed carrier aid reliability because of the chrome's innate lubricity?
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Posted: 10/29/2006 10:06:45 AM EDT
[#38]
THE BEARING SURFACES ARE TAKEN TO A MUCH FINER LEVEL OF FINISH. MOST IMPORTANTLY, TIGHTER TOLERANCES ARE HELD. THIS IS ACCOMPLISHED IN LARGE PART BY DOING FINAL MACHINING AFTER TEMPERING. THE LBC AND YOUNG MFG N/M CARRIER EACH HAVE UNQUE PROPERTIES AS BOLT CARRIERS IN ADDITION TO THE FINISH, AS WELL. BOTH WEIGH AS MUCH AS A STANDARD FULL AUTO; NO OTHER SEMI CARRIERS DO. THE LBC HAS IN ITS FLUTED FORWARD PORTION MORE SURFACE FOR LUBRICANT, HENCE ITS PATENT. THE YOUNG MFG N/M HAS A FULLER BEARING SURFACE TO ITS FACE, IN THEORY GIVING BETTER ALIGNMENT TO THE CARRIER IN THE RECEIVER AT LOCK-UP. DOES ALL THIS SNAKE OIL WORK? ITS HARD TO TRULY QUANTIFY WITHOUT LOTS OF SCIENTIFIC TESTING. OUR RESULTS USING THESE PRODUCTS MAKE ME THINK BOTH BOLT CARRIERS DO WORK, AND WORK QUITE WELL. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 10/29/2006 12:27:24 PM EDT
[#39]
and the YM NM carrier a lot easier to clean, IMHO. ar-jedi    |
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Posted: 10/29/2006 9:32:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Wes, how do feel about Robar's NP3? I was thinking of getting one of the BCs in discussion and then getting this treatment done. Do you have any experience with it?
I am theorizing the parts required for the ultimate reliability in a DI carbine. |
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Posted: 10/29/2006 11:25:56 PM EDT
[#41]
You gonna stake that carrier key? Thats the one big reason i havent bought one yet. Maybe after i get a MOAKS. |
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Posted: 10/30/2006 3:42:21 AM EDT
[#42]
at the time i bought it, ~ 2002, Young was using red Loctite on the key. it certainly hasn't moved in about 2000 rounds. nevertheless, next time i send off some parts i think i'll get it staked -- just in case. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/30/2006 5:45:05 AM EDT
[#43]
Is the Young BCG proof tested, MPI'ed, and shot peened?
Justin |
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Posted: 10/30/2006 5:55:32 AM EDT
[#44]
After shooting about a thousand rounds at the last AZ Big Sandy MG shoot through my MRP with a chrome carrier supposedly made by Smith Enterprise (has a D stamped on it, DMPS
 ) and an LMT chromed enhanced bolt, I agree it's easier to clean. I let a friend borrow a Colt carrier and bolt, he shot as many rounds as I did through his in full auto. Since I got to clean both carriers and bolts, I had an impromptu side comparison. During the shoot, the chromed carrier and bolt continued to function smoothly whereas the Colt carrier and bolt seemed to start to drag a little. I sprayed some CLP on the Colt unit, didn't touch the chromed b/c. The chromed parts were easy to take apart and clean, I had problems pulling the Colt bolt out of its carrier. I'm a believer of chromed b/c now, and in the process of replacing most of the b/c with chromed units. So far I have a tried and true Smith Enterprise (or DPMS ) carrier, a LB carrier made by YM (haven't shot it yet, but it's smoooooth inside the Vltor MUR as though it was rolling on ball bearing), and just ordered POF's chromed b/c  Was gonna take the LB/YM carrier to the Big Sandy shoot, to my dismay, I realized it wasn't a full auto carrier  Does YM make a full auto carrier?
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Posted: 10/30/2006 9:48:38 AM EDT
[#45]
I would like to know if they make a chromed full auto carrier as well...
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Posted: 10/30/2006 11:54:20 AM EDT
[#46]
What is the idea behind the lightened carrier? It seems like a lot of people are looking for heavier carriers, buffers, etc...
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Posted: 10/30/2006 1:32:45 PM EDT
[#47]
WE'RE ABLE TO PICK UP JUST A FEW YOUNG MFG STANDARD FORMAT HARD CHROMED FULL AUTO CARRIERS FROM TIME TO TIME, BUT WE ONLY OFFER THEM IN CUSTOM UPPERS. TOO HARD TO FIND TO SELL THEM ALONE. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 10/30/2006 1:35:20 PM EDT
[#48]
PRIMARILY FOR COMPETITION USE WITH LOADS THAT JUST MAKE USPSA "MINOR" POWER FACTOR. THE IDEA IS TO GET A GUN THAT GOES "BOOM" WITH A MINOR POWER FACTOR LOAD BUT DOES NOT MOVE WHEN IT DOES. YOU ALSO NEED TO HAVE AN ADJUSTABLE GAS BLOCK AND A GOOD MUZZLE BRAKE. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 10/30/2006 2:43:39 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 10/30/2006 5:59:15 PM EDT
[#50]
A buddy of mine used one of these (for the record, not purchased from MSTN) in a recent custom build with a CMT M4 upper receiver. The sucker was so tight, the rifle wouldn't function well at all for about 100 rounds. The carrier just wouldn't freely move back and forth in the upper.
After about 100 rounds of ammo, gratuitous amounts of lube, and some serious hand cycling, it finally runs well enough to actually use. After his experience...I certainly wouldn't buy one. |
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