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Posted: 4/14/2006 8:32:49 PM EST
Well, I just spent a week in a fantastic Patol Rifle School and I have some ammo observations.

The 2000 rounds of Federal XM193 that me and my partner brought had multiple primer failures, some falling in the fire control group and causing stoppages. My confidence in this round has fallen somewhat.

There was a variety of ammo for the other LEOs, but the most popular round by far was the Winchester white box .223 (not 5.56) USA223R1. No primer failures, no stoppages, good for practice and duty ammo.

A visual comparison of the rounds shows the Winchester to look new, while the XM193 looks very tarnished, but the real proof was in the stoppages in each. Now I need to get my department to change to USA223R1.

I was surprised to see the poplularity of the .223 vs the 5.56 ammo. Theres always something new to learn.

Can anyone confirm my limited observations?????????????????????
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 10:14:16 PM EST

What lot number was the XM193?



~nb
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:37:33 AM EST
Yikes. please give us the lot #

kevin
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:39:54 AM EST
Was in XM193PD or boxed?
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 7:47:07 AM EST
It was boxed XM193 and has "LOT-39" marked on the boxes.

I see no down-side to shooting .223 out of a 5.56 rifle. The reverse is a dangerous situation, but does anyone know of a down-side to shooting .223 out of a AR15 in 5.56?
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 7:54:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
It was boxed XM193 and has "LOT-39" marked on the boxes.

I see no down-side to shooting .223 out of a 5.56 rifle. The reverse is a dangerous situation, but does anyone know of a down-side to shooting .223 out of a AR15 in 5.56?

Thanks for the lot #. The downside of shooting .223 in a 5.56 may be not fully cycling. i'm shooting 5,56 thru my .223 shaw barreled upper with good results.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 8:11:18 AM EST
I have never had any problem with any 223 rounds in my AR's. I love the Wal mart value pack white box.....before the price increase.
All the rounds I have put through my two bushies have cycled. I bought some of the last batch of XM193 but only shot a couple of boxes and it worked well.
JR
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 9:24:13 AM EST
I use .223 for plinkin' to save wear and tear on my barrell.

The only gripe most will have about .223 vs. 5.56 is the whole "Fragmentation" issue that some get wrapped up in. Take it how you will.

You could always switch to Win. Q3131. Its a 5.56 round but the same quality as the WWB, just hotter
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 9:54:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By JRandyH:
I have never had any problem with any 223 rounds in my AR's. I love the Wal mart value pack white box.....before the price increase.
All the rounds I have put through my two bushies have cycled. I bought some of the last batch of XM193 but only shot a couple of boxes and it worked well.
JR



What white box are you refering to.. The Winchester USA 45 gr varmint (40 rd box) OR the 20 rd 55 (?) gr box?

just curious.. I really like the 45 gr for punching holes in paper and if i ever get the chance, to put one in a coyote..

thanks

Brian
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 11:04:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2006 11:06:27 AM EST by rsilvers]
I bet you had bolt bounce with the hotter ammo but it did not manifest itself with the underpowered .223. I would never use .223 ammo given a choice.

Try a heavier buffer. What is your exact rifle configuration (barrel, buffer, buffer spring, etc)?

Yes, the Winchester consumer ammo is shined up because consumers tend to think that means it is better and the military knows it does not matter.

It is more likely your rifles than the ammo.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 12:36:19 PM EST

XM193 is 55gr while I believe USA223R1 is 62gr... make sure your bbl. twist likes the 62 before dropping too much $$$. My BM 14.5 1/9 groups much tighter with 55 than 62 if group size is a concern. ymmv....
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 1:35:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By BrianInAustin:
XM193 is 55gr while I believe USA223R1 is 62gr... make sure your bbl. twist likes the 62 before dropping too much $$$. My BM 14.5 1/9 groups much tighter with 55 than 62 if group size is a concern. ymmv....




No it's 55gr.


.223 vs 5.56mm spec ammo.


Plinking go with which ever is cheaper. SHTF/storage XM193.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 2:02:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
I bet you had bolt bounce with the hotter ammo but it did not manifest itself with the underpowered .223. I would never use .223 ammo given a choice.

Try a heavier buffer. What is your exact rifle configuration (barrel, buffer, buffer spring, etc)?

Yes, the Winchester consumer ammo is shined up because consumers tend to think that means it is better and the military knows it does not matter.

It is more likely your rifles than the ammo.



The rifles in question are Armalite M15A2s with 16 inch barrels and fixed stocks with all factory parts. I can't find any markings on the barrel (like there should be) that shows the caliber of the barrel. Maybe Armalite uses .223 barrels? Why can't frikkin Armalite just stamp the caliber on the end of the barrel like Colt and Bushmaster? ARRGGGGGG!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 2:56:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
I bet you had bolt bounce with the hotter ammo but it did not manifest itself with the underpowered .223. I would never use .223 ammo given a choice.

Try a heavier buffer. What is your exact rifle configuration (barrel, buffer, buffer spring, etc)?

Yes, the Winchester consumer ammo is shined up because consumers tend to think that means it is better and the military knows it does not matter.

It is more likely your rifles than the ammo.



The rifles in question are Armalite M15A2s with 16 inch barrels and fixed stocks with all factory parts. I can't find any markings on the barrel (like there should be) that shows the caliber of the barrel. Maybe Armalite uses .223 barrels? Why can't frikkin Armalite just stamp the caliber on the end of the barrel like Colt and Bushmaster? ARRGGGGGG!!!!!!!!



Armalite's Website on chambers.



We use the NATO chamber in all moly (phosphated) and chrome-lined barrels.



If my rifle wouldn't eat XM193, I'd send it back and tell 'em to fix it.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 6:00:01 PM EST
I have gone throug about 3000 rounds of lot 39, and have about 2000 left, and never had a prob with it in any of my rifles, and that includes 2 classes...
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 6:14:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By R-32:
I have gone throug about 3000 rounds of lot 39, and have about 2000 left, and never had a prob with it in any of my rifles, and that includes 2 classes...



What rifle do you have?
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 6:16:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By King_of_All_Tyrants:

Armalite's Website on chambers.



Thanks for the website...............
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