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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/14/2006 6:12:57 AM EDT
Hey all I'm sure this has been covered extensively but when doing several searches I found absolutely nothing. So links to the discussions on why XM193 is better than M855 for SHTF scenario would be appreciated.

Short of that discussing it here would be great as well.

I've been recently somewhat active on this board and when trying to order some 7.62x39 and not being able to find it anywhere I decided to try and get some 5.56 and have done a lot of reading (and learning) on here as to which ammo is better than others and so on.

Anyway with all of what I've read so far I see a lot of folks here prefer Black Hills 75gr for SHTF but then go to XM193 when they run out of the expensive stuff. I'm just wondering why? Why not use M855, I ask this because it's AP and seems like it would perform better for SHTF than a regular FMJ. M855 seems like it would be more versatile in going through metal doors, concrete, bricks, etc. which I think would be rather important in a true SHTF scenario.

So again, why one over the other when it comes down to the dirty work?
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:34:05 AM EDT
AR15.com Ammo Oracle

It's all in there.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:37:53 AM EDT
[Rock7] Shakes head and mumbles "not this shit again"[/Rock7]
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:43:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:59:34 AM EDT
If your all wrapped around the axel about fragmentation range xm193 has on average about 25 more yards than m855 according to the frag chart. But xm193 is still seconds and it still could be lacking sealant or have other defects. In a post by the box o truth shooting into water jugs I remember reading that some of the xm193 didnt frag at all. So fragmentation is not a garantee. For a guarantee I would go with a 68+ grain SMK round thats sealed for SHTF. Remeber though... shot placement is always key. Dont depend on the bullet to do the work for you.

back to your question though.

So..IMHO If you just want to have some lead to throw down range. I like a good sealed bullet that has been shot...alot ....and known to be accurate in all my ARs. So something like m855 from ammoman in the cans still sealed from LC is perfect for a long term ammo storage solution, that will go bang, and in my experience plenty accurate for my needs. Im not going to be shooting ground hogs at 300+ yards with it... its SHTF and it will be plenty accurate for aliens, zombies and anything else mixed in between. Also in my experence with 5k+ rounds of xm193 its not any more accurate out of my guns than m855 plus if you have a little bit of a tight chamber you could start poping primers out on xm193 wich will disable your gun and require removing of your FCG to get it back in action.

And Im sure someone will be along shortly to tell me how wrong I am and that xm193 is the answer to everything, even that raise you should be getting.

Get good LCM855 from ammoman or adco. Its good stuff on the strippers meant for GI issue. I like xm193 and have shot alot of it. But its hard to get and "I" dont think its all its cracked up to be.

CG-AR
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:02:38 AM EDT
I think it's a valid discussion because everyone always just refers to the ammo oracle like it's the damn bible. It's great, don't get me wrong, and awesomely informative, but I think firsthand or differing opinions are valid as well.

That said, here's the deal: 193 fragments more reliably, but M855s failure to frag has been overhyped IMO. I've seen 855 put em down firsthand many a time with no effectiveness problems. I also like the superior penetration, and that combined with the good-enough frag makes me choose 855 in general. Plus, my guns seem to prefer it accuracy wise, which is unusual, but true. Now, given the choice of anything, I'd choose 77gr BH for my 1/7 twist and 69gr for my 1/9, but for surplus I tend to get 855. I also have plenty of 193 though
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:12:12 AM EDT
Delta-Swift,

Thanks for the link, that's what I was looking for.

As for the other posts (the ones that actually have content), thank you as well. The ammo oracle is a great site that I now need to completely read but discussion is always a good thing regardless.

One thing I noticed in the ammo oracle is that it discusses XM193 as being easy to get, that's not the case right now obviously but hopefully that changes soon and I can start stocking up on more of that as well.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:41:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:49:07 AM EDT
BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED FROM CIVILIAN USE!

Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:53:59 AM EDT
+1 Markm

Now Im getting ya
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:18:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Delta-Swift:
AR15.com Ammo Oracle

It's all in there.

Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:19:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Q3131A:

Originally Posted By Delta-Swift:
AR15.com Ammo Oracle

It's all in there.


Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:24:14 AM EDT
Here is some short and to the point information/reading:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=268283
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 3:33:13 PM EDT
Provided you read the Oracle and posted this in the nature of discussion, I would say M193 spec ammo would be the best choice for SHTF. M193 has increased penetration capabilites at typical defensive ranges due to increased velocity and fragmentation range is increased. M193 has excellent fragmentation capabilites, typically even or better than M855 and makes for an excellent multi-purpose round. M855 will have an edge at longer ranges, however SHTF/Defensive preperation pretty much exclude "longer ranges". Aquiring a large supply of M193 supplemented with 68 or 75grn HP's would be an excellent start for a SHTF cache. M193 is the best multipurpose round availible. It has an excellent mix of lethality, penetration and overall capability. With the exception of increased pentration capability at longer ranges, I can't think of any advantage that M855 enjoys over M193.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:11:23 PM EDT
I alternate XM193 and M855 in my magazines, and the last round is a tracer.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:27:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 6:10:08 PM EDT by King_of_All_Tyrants]
Like anything else it depends on the mission, in this case what "SHTF" means.

What's the scenario?

1. A post-atomic holocaust? In that case, any ammo I can get is good, even (gasp) Olympic.
2. A post-hurricane type situation where law and order breaks down for anywhere from a few hours to a few days?
3. a scenario where you will need to use deadly force to protect yourself/family?
4. a combination of the above?

What's the threat and the target?
My answer for #2: random marauders, possibly armed, possibly not
My answer for #3: some probably armed criminal type

What do I need to do to the target?
2. get 1-5 dudes to GTF away from me. At least a few shots - IF I'M IN REAL FEAR OF MY LIFE - are necessary. This is the one situation where I think a civilian may possibly need to expend several mags - depending on the situation.
3. essentially put down the dude ASAP.

How far away are they going to be from me?
Hain't that an interesting question.......... Let's put it this way, how likely is it that they'll be more than 100yd from me before I'm justified shooting at them?

What kind of ammo would I like to have?
2. at least several 100 rds. of something. For the scenarios listed above, I don't see any difference between XM193 and XM855

3. 30rds. worth of BH 75gr. Every shot has to count.

Bottom line: for #2, either XM193 and XM855 will probably be just as good. Keep several hundred rounds at least. If you're worried about #3, keeping a 30 rd. mag with BH 75gr. seems like a good idea.

[ETA: a few phrases and typos here and there]
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:35:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By King_of_All_Tyrants:
Let's put it this way, how likely is it that they'll be more than 100yd from me before I'm justified shooting at them?



Good point.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:54:06 PM EDT
I prefer M2 Ball or M2 AP.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:35:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Delta-Swift:

Originally Posted By King_of_All_Tyrants:
Let's put it this way, how likely is it that they'll be more than 100yd from me before I'm justified shooting at them?



Good point.



+1 great straightforward way to look at it
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:17:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phoebus:

Originally Posted By Delta-Swift:

Originally Posted By King_of_All_Tyrants:
Let's put it this way, how likely is it that they'll be more than 100yd from me before I'm justified shooting at them?



Good point.



+1 great straightforward way to look at it



-1 If they're far enough away. You won't need to justify it!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:03:49 PM EDT
M193 v M855.
i see it this way....

both are fine, so get what is available.....but if SHTF and some guy is walking backwards from you carrying your TV, and he gets out to a range of ~ 600m...then M855 should be your choice.

as far as i'm concerned, 5.56 pressures will not make a bit of difference in a SHTF scenario where the mission is self protection (and not actual battle) therefore a heavier match load would be a fine choice.

then again, i could be
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:03:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By viahj:
M193 v M855.
i see it this way....

both are fine, so get what is available.....but if SHTF and some guy is walking backwards from you carrying your TV, and he gets out to a range of ~ 600m...then M855 should be your choice.

as far as i'm concerned, 5.56 pressures will not make a bit of difference in a SHTF scenario where the mission is self protection (and not actual battle) therefore a heavier match load would be a fine choice.

then again, i could be



DON'T SHOOT! YOU'LL HIT THE TV!
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