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Posted: 10/23/2011 12:04:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2011 12:13:20 PM EST by CL1K_KL4C]
I recently aquired a new midlength upper from a company which I will refrain from mentioning. I took the rifle out for the first time today and after the first shot it never ejected the case.  

I then inspected the gas key which I thought may be loose it was fine, so I pulled off the handguards to check out the tube and it all looked fine also.  Then I noticed the gas tube never even makes it into the receiver.  I checked the roll pin in the gas block to make sure it was still there, indeed it was and the tube was solid, no movement.  

I thought I inspected the upper when I recieved it but I guess not, i feel like an ass.  I took a rough measurement and from the roll pin to where I think the gas tube ends (about halfway in the delta ring assembly) all signs point to the upper being built with the wrong gas tube. Do you all concur?



I only ask because I'm not entirely savy with the ar system.  It seem's pretty straight foward but I could be missing something which is why I ask.
Thanks everyone,
-Art

Link Posted: 10/23/2011 12:09:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2011 12:10:28 PM EST by glock24]
It looks like a carbine gas tube on a mid-length barrel to me . . .

Dodo occurs I suppose
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 12:13:55 PM EST
Why refrain?  That is some serious f***up.  You would have to be blind to buildit that way or just don't give a crab.  This is pass a honest mistake
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 12:16:31 PM EST
The gas tube needs to be covered by the bolt carrier key when the bolt is forward.



That will never happen with that gas tube.  The builder fucked up.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 12:21:49 PM EST
is the gas tube actually too short? or did the gas tube break? can't tell from the pics.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 12:26:56 PM EST
Indeed I thought it was a pretty big "goof" for a builder to make, especially if you understand how the system works.  I guess if you have novices (like myself) building something they know nothing about it could happen.

 I have sent the company an email and will attempt to call them on my lunch tomarrow afternoon.  I dont know if most companies test fire uppers after being assembled but I would think they would.  

Either way I feel I should have caught it myself before taking it out to shoot.  I'm deffinately dissapointed I didn't.  

When building a device that manages a controlled explosion mere inches from ones face where do you draw the line at petty bitching and a reasonable complaint published on a public forum..  I've seen this story before where someone mentions the company too soon and is "bashing" before the situation is made right.  So I hold my tounge at the moment.

-Art
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 12:29:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2011 12:37:56 PM EST by CL1K_KL4C]
Originally Posted By ma1775:
is the gas tube actually too short? or did the gas tube break? can't tell from the pics.


no signs of it ever breaking, but it is a thought I had.  I thought I verified the tube entered the receiever when I first got it.  Its hard to get a good look in the delta ring but the end appears to be faced and true at the end (no signs of cracks or tears).  Again when I tool the measurement from the front pin in ends up right around the 9 1/2-9 3/4 mark which made me presume it was a carbine tube.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 12:39:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2011 12:40:22 PM EST by Medicfrost]
If it really does have a carbine gas tube, which is what it appears to be, it also means that they didn't test fire it either.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 12:43:20 PM EST
Ya know, if that company is in the Industry section I would post it there and call em out on it. Basic QC should catch that. Not to mention the test fire.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 12:44:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
If it really does have a carbine gas tube, which is what it appears to be, it also means that they didn't test fire it either.


That's another aspect that irk'd me a little.  Again I don't know if this is common practice, but considering the magnitude of the product your selling I would hope all complete uppers by all companies would be test fired.

Link Posted: 10/23/2011 12:57:58 PM EST
That is a carbine gas tube(Didn't break) I just checked one of mine, and it would put it in the exact same spot.

Judging by that upper I have a strong feeling who I think it is. I would post it here OP. If it is who I think it is they've been having quite a few issue's lately. This is a bad fuck-up, and if this is passing QC I would hate to see what else is
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 12:58:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2011 3:34:47 PM EST by RCarter]
Thats a pretty big f*** up on their part . I doubt you want to send the rifle back so I would have them send you the correct tube & install it yourself if you can . If the manufacturer is who I think it is , I'm surprised they dont test fire & I would ask why .
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 1:06:30 PM EST
That's a new one for me!  Who doesn't test fire?  It wouldn't be a newish company that possibly grew too fast and is always running really good deals would it?  If so, there have been some issues, though they always get them corrected.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 1:07:58 PM EST
Wow, that would be hard to miss when assembling it.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 1:11:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By bsmith918:
That's a new one for me!  Who doesn't test fire?  It wouldn't be a newish company that possibly grew too fast and is always running really good deals would it?  If so, there have been some issues, though they always get them corrected.


I hope not im planning on getting an upper from them soon.

Care to tell us who it is op?
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 1:29:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By Logan09:

This is a bad fuck-up, and if this is passing QC I would hate to see what else is


Yea it has me a little un-easy I would hate to see someone get something more serious like a headspace issue.
-Art

Link Posted: 10/23/2011 1:45:55 PM EST
Wow. That's the first time I have ever seen that.
Somebody not only dropped the ball, they kicked it across the room.

I'm sure they'll fix it for you...
But it NEVER should have left their factory.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 1:55:59 PM EST
Well I guess their is a first time for everything.
Ive never seen that before.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 2:15:13 PM EST
Just cut a hardwood dowel to length, stick it inside your gas key and you'll have your own piston system.  

Link Posted: 10/23/2011 2:19:52 PM EST
As Adam says, "Well, there's your problem."  I too would like to know who did such careless work.  If the company fixes the problem without any hassles, including issuing a call tag, then they deserve due credit for that and we should be made aware, but they also deserve a little embarrassment for letting that abortion out the door.  If they don't get a little embarrassment for their oh-ohs then what will keep them from doing it again, especially if they believe they will not be called out on it?  Nobody ever hesitates to bust DPMS's or Rock River's chops when they screw up so if these more flavorful companies want to play in the big league then they need to take their lumps along with their kudos.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 2:21:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By k80clay:
Just cut a hardwood dowel to length, stick it inside your gas key and you'll have your own piston system.  



LOL touche, now the innovation begins. ALthough,  I was considering just rolling with the "straight-pull" bolt action ar that I seem to have now.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 2:23:55 PM EST
Can you give a picture of the front section of the tube in the gas block?
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 2:27:01 PM EST
Wow that really sucks hope whoever it is makes it right for you. Don't know how someone could manage to screw up that bad unless they were blind.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 2:30:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2011 2:30:42 PM EST by CL1K_KL4C]

Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Can you give a picture of the front section of the tube in the gas block?


Do you want to see a photo with the gas tube entirely, or just where it enters the gas block.....at the handguard cap.lol..
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 2:36:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2011 3:13:45 PM EST by Medicfrost]
Originally Posted By CL1K_KL4C:

Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Can you give a picture of the front section of the tube in the gas block?


Do you want to see a photo with the gas tube entirely, or just where it enters the gas block.....at the handguard cap.lol..


LOL, you caught it.  But the fact that you even mentioned it confirmed the manufacturer to me, plus the M4 written on the front of the upper receiver also hinted.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 2:59:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2011 3:00:13 PM EST by Grumple]
That right there is one of the most 8-up things I have ever seen. Besides horrible quality assurance , they never test fired that weapon after the build. If they did they would have known something was wrong. Either way this is a serious issue. You should call them out and tell us who you got this upper from.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 3:11:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Originally Posted By CL1K_KL4C:

Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Can you give a picture of the front section of the tube in the gas block?


Do you want to see a photo with the gas tube entirely, or just where it enters the gas block.....at the handguard cap.lol..


LOL, you caught it.  But the fact that you even mentioned it confirmed the manufacturer to me.


Not another PSA?
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 3:33:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By WI57:
Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Originally Posted By CL1K_KL4C:

Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Can you give a picture of the front section of the tube in the gas block?


Do you want to see a photo with the gas tube entirely, or just where it enters the gas block.....at the handguard cap.lol..


LOL, you caught it.  But the fact that you even mentioned it confirmed the manufacturer to me.


Not another PSA?


Yes , another . I would say their QC sucks . And , they dont test fire ? whats up w/ that shit .

Link Posted: 10/23/2011 3:40:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By RCarter:
Originally Posted By WI57:
Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Originally Posted By CL1K_KL4C:

Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Can you give a picture of the front section of the tube in the gas block?


Do you want to see a photo with the gas tube entirely, or just where it enters the gas block.....at the handguard cap.lol..


LOL, you caught it.  But the fact that you even mentioned it confirmed the manufacturer to me.


Not another PSA?


Yes , another . I would say their QC sucks . And , they dont test fire ? whats up w/ that shit .



Sadly ive seen enough bad PSA threads lately to keep me from gettig an upper from them, what makes it worse is now we know they dont test fire
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 3:45:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2011 3:46:56 PM EST by warpig8654]
Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Originally Posted By CL1K_KL4C:

Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Can you give a picture of the front section of the tube in the gas block?


Do you want to see a photo with the gas tube entirely, or just where it enters the gas block.....at the handguard cap.lol..


LOL, you caught it.  But the fact that you even mentioned it confirmed the manufacturer to me, plus the M4 written on the front of the upper receiver also hinted.


There is more than one manufacturer that uses "M4" marked uppers. Yes OP, shou us a pic of the entire upper with gas tube installed.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 3:55:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
There is more than one manufacturer that uses "M4" marked uppers. Yes OP, shou us a pic of the entire upper with gas tube installed.


Just judging by what's been posted, that looks identical to my upper. The finish/color looks identical(Much different then others I have seen), and their "T" markings are also larger then any other upper I've seen. I will put my money on that it's a PSA upper.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 4:03:03 PM EST
OP Please let us know how this is resolved.  And who let that slip. I agree give them a chance to correct it though so there is a total picture with resolution, for those of us about to send our hard earned money off, to view.  

Link Posted: 10/23/2011 4:08:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2011 4:09:58 PM EST by SmokeWrench138]
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By RCarter:
Originally Posted By WI57:
Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Originally Posted By CL1K_KL4C:

Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Can you give a picture of the front section of the tube in the gas block?


Do you want to see a photo with the gas tube entirely, or just where it enters the gas block.....at the handguard cap.lol..


LOL, you caught it.  But the fact that you even mentioned it confirmed the manufacturer to me.


Not another PSA?




Yes , another . I would say their QC sucks . And , they dont test fire ? whats up w/ that shit .



Sadly ive seen enough bad PSA threads lately to keep me from gettig an upper from them, what makes it worse is now we know they dont test fire



I hope not. Was planning next assembly around one of their uppers



Link Posted: 10/23/2011 4:14:48 PM EST
After much deliberation I've decided to indeed verify this is a PSA upper. Although I'm sure most of you knew that after the first post

As I stated I have notified them via email and will call tomarrow, with hope of actually speaking to an individual and clearing up a few concerns of mine.

The biggest being right now, if this upper was even test fired.  Who knows it very well could have been. I mean if the "new guy" who used the wrong gas tube was the one test firing it, he may of not known that yanking back on the charging handle to eject the case wasn't how the ar system works.

There are too many if's to come to a conclusion without speaking with them.  Honestly, they never mention anywhere that they test fire the uppers (or i have missed it) This is something us as shooters just assume should be done (or at least I do)

The only certain thing is that QC is deffinately lacking. I understand that people make mistakes but the term "haste makes waste" comes to mind. I work QC for a living and the part's we put out protect the men and women that serve our country. However, if I don't do my job those same parts could indeed kill them so I take QC very seriously when it involves someones life.

I have no doubt in my mind that PSA will make this right, but I believe somewhere along the line something needs to give.  
I will let everyone know what happens from here. One things for sure I don't want this thread to take a turn and end up as a "bashing" thread, let's see what they have to say first.

-Arthur
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 4:21:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By CL1K_KL4C:
After much deliberation I've decided to indeed verify this is a PSA upper. Although I'm sure most of you knew that after the first post

As I stated I have notified them via email and will call tomarrow, with hope of actually speaking to an individual and clearing up a few concerns of mine.

The biggest being right now, if this upper was even test fired.  Who knows it very well could have been. I mean if the "new guy" who used the wrong gas tube was the one test firing it, he may of not known that yanking back on the charging handle to eject the case wasn't how the ar system works.

There are too many if's to come to a conclusion without speaking with them.  Honestly, they never mention anywhere that they test fire the uppers (or i have missed it) This is something us as shooters just assume should be done (or at least I do)

The only certain thing is that QC is deffinately lacking. I understand that people make mistakes but the term "haste makes waste" comes to mind. I work QC for a living and the part's we put out protect the men and women that serve our country. However, if I don't do my job those same parts could indeed kill them so I take QC very seriously when it involves someones life.

I have no doubt in my mind that PSA will make this right, but I believe somewhere along the line something needs to give.  
I will let everyone know what happens from here. One things for sure I don't want this thread to take a turn and end up as a "bashing" thread, let's see what they have to say first.

-Arthur


Sadly, people who have no idea how something works need proper instruction before assembling it.
The gas tube it kinda the heart of an AR, no gas, no work.

Not bashing the mfg, but they do need better QC checks.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 4:24:33 PM EST
as someone who lives 4 minutes from PSA, i can offer my services test firing, hell even assembling rifles, for a nominal fee.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 4:42:43 PM EST
All of this PSA QC stuff makes me wonder where they hired their new QC guys from... Why does Sig USA come to mind?
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 5:26:03 PM EST
I'm sure PSA will make this right.
In the meantime I will spend my money elsewhere.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 5:27:13 PM EST
Well that sucks to hear it was a PSA I had planned on picking one up this week but now I think I will stick with Spikes or BCM. I really hope they get it together and start really paying attention to what they are doing. Sounds like to me they need to do some firing and I don't mean from the gun.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 5:41:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2011 5:41:35 PM EST by sinlessorrow]
Originally Posted By DBC5150:
Well that sucks to hear it was a PSA I had planned on picking one up this week but now I think I will stick with Spikes or BCM. I really hope they get it together and start really paying attention to what they are doing. Sounds like to me they need to do some firing and I don't mean from the gun.


agreed, because of this ill wait for BCM to get their upper back in stock cause i know itll be right

i remember one PSA said they had alot of packages go out wrong because alot of their workers are not really gun people.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 5:46:46 PM EST
All I can say is WOW!!!! If youre installing a gas tube and you don't have to feed it into the upper receiver, that SHOULD throw up a red flag and realize that their is something that's not matching up! WTF?!!
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 5:53:26 PM EST
I really dont want to bash the company but that is just freaking unbelievable.  Wow.

I have one complete upper from them. It was perfect in every way. This really takes away any positive thoughts I had about the company. Truly amazing. Damn.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 5:59:52 PM EST
the not test firing the Upper would be a concern to me.
There is no way that this upper was ever tested - if it was tested they should have noticed this error except they only fired one round.

that sure is a shame

TAG for update
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 6:04:01 PM EST
I can say this is suprising but won't stop me from buying a PSA upper in the future. It's very high value stuff, they can't simple do the exact same thing as Colt/BCM/DD for in some cases $100's less.

Mistakes happen, I'm sure they don't test fire them, but they do use high quality parts. I guess when you save a bunch, a few hiccups are to be expected, but in the end I'm sure a fine gun will come.

I hope this thread stays unlocked as Palmetto's response will be key to me, high value kit will have a few bad one's sneak thru Q&A but if they failed to provide customer service then my $ really will go else wear
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 6:41:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2011 6:42:13 PM EST by broham25]
Originally Posted By CL1K_KL4C:
Indeed I thought it was a pretty big "goof" for a builder to make, especially if you understand how the system works.  I guess if you have novices (like myself) building something they know nothing about it could happen.

 I have sent the company an email and will attempt to call them on my lunch tomarrow afternoon.  I dont know if most companies test fire uppers after being assembled but I would think they would.  

Either way I feel I should have caught it myself before taking it out to shoot.  I'm deffinately dissapointed I didn't.  

When building a device that manages a controlled explosion mere inches from ones face where do you draw the line at petty bitching and a reasonable complaint published on a public forum..  I've seen this story before where someone mentions the company too soon and is "bashing" before the situation is made right.  So I hold my tounge at the moment.

-Art


Good luck sir.  I hate to see this.

Link Posted: 10/23/2011 7:57:42 PM EST
Wrong size gas tube...

I got one too...
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 9:45:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 9:55:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By M82Assault:
All of this PSA QC stuff makes me wonder where they hired their new QC guys from... Why does Sig USA come to mind?


Quality Control belongs to the guy assembling it and the assembly process. The inspector can only assure quality was properly controlled
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 10:55:04 PM EST
Well I was going to buy a PSA upper next week.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 11:37:38 PM EST
I'm sure they'll be by shortly to explain themselves.

In the mean time, post up a thread in their industry forum with links to both these threads if someone hasn't already.

I'm curious as to their response
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 11:44:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By DanNH:
I'm sure they'll be by shortly to explain themselves.

In the mean time, post up a thread in their industry forum with links to both these threads if someone hasn't already.

I'm curious as to their response


aimless did
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