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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/4/2005 12:34:18 PM EDT

Could I have a blank lower engraved with the Colt logo and trademark, etc? I'd like to have one of my own, without paying Colt prices.

I'm not sure if it would be copyright infringement, since I wouldn't be selling the product, just keeping it for personal use.

Anyone know? Thanks.

Link Posted: 7/4/2005 12:36:00 PM EDT
Why would you want to? The joy of having a Blank Lower is jus that, no S/N, no name, no nuttin. If i was to engrave a lower it would be something cool. not COLT for sure.
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 12:36:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 12:47:17 PM EDT
Even if it wasn't illegal due to Copyright or Trademark infringement, I am not sure the BATFE would like it very much. I know they are touchy about defacing serial numbers or manufacturers ids on factory produced firearms. I wouldn't be surprised if they would consider what you are talking about as something akin to counterfieting. Definitely I would consult them for a ruling before you do anything that might be questionable.
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 12:50:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Even if it wasn't illegal due to Copyright or Trademark infringement, I am not sure the BATFE would like it very much. I know they are touchy about defacing serial numbers or manufacturers ids on factory produced firearms. I wouldn't be surprised if they would consider what you are talking about as something akin to counterfieting. Definitely I would consult them for a ruling before you do anything that might be questionable.




He is talking about an 80% lower or less. You are allowed to build your Own Firearm, but you can not sell it. You are suppose to put a S/N on it and not sure whatelse. So, what you are talking about has nuttin to do with nuttin.
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 1:17:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
Could I have a blank lower engraved with the Colt logo and trademark, etc? I'd like to have one of my own, without paying Colt prices.

I'm not sure if it would be copyright infringement, since I wouldn't be selling the product, just keeping it for personal use.

Anyone know? Thanks.




Nothing will happen.

It would be a civil matter and not a criminal one if it ever came to that. And Colt wouldnt know unless you started selling them.
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 1:35:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By die-tryin:

Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Even if it wasn't illegal due to Copyright or Trademark infringement, I am not sure the BATFE would like it very much. I know they are touchy about defacing serial numbers or manufacturers ids on factory produced firearms. I wouldn't be surprised if they would consider what you are talking about as something akin to counterfieting. Definitely I would consult them for a ruling before you do anything that might be questionable.




He is talking about an 80% lower or less. You are allowed to build your Own Firearm, but you can not sell it. You are suppose to put a S/N on it and not sure whatelse. So, what you are talking about has nuttin to do with nuttin.



I realize he is talking an 80% or less lower and that you are allowed to build your own firearm provided it is not for resale. I sure wouldn't make an assumption that BATFE wouldn't have a problem with someone putting the logo from a commercial vendor on one. I would guess it might be worse if you put a serial number on it that was in a range that Colt has used, but the mere logo might be bad enough. What has to do with what according to BATFE doesn't always make sense, so better to be safe than sorry.
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 1:36:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2005 1:39:41 PM EDT by Szurgot]
Putting a colt logo on a lower, doesnt make it a colt. Dont be a poser.

Think of a custom logo, and put that on there. It will look original.
Be a leader, not a follower.

Lecture over
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 3:26:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2005 3:28:45 PM EDT by Big-Bore]
There are no legal requirements as far as the ATFE is concerned about logos. If you want to do it, it would be legal from the ATFE standpoint. As to copyright infringement, how would Colt know? Now, if you ever tried to sell it and Colt got wind of it, look out, they would have grounds to ream you a new one. I agree with the others, if you want the Colt logo, get a Colt lower and do the build. By the time you buy a 80% lower, finish it, then have the Colt engraving done you will be out about as much money as you would have spent just buying a Colt lower outright. Hoplite has Colt lowers in various stages of completion. If you are doing a 80% enjoy having one sans logos of any kind.
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 8:11:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Szurgot:
Putting a colt logo on a lower, doesnt make it a colt. Dont be a poser.

Think of a custom logo, and put that on there. It will look original.
Be a leader, not a follower.

Lecture over



That's true, but how many people own PRETEND Colt rifles? Really, when you think about it, I'd be a trend-setter, not follower.



Seriously, thanks for the advice everyone. I probably won't do it, just an idea I was kicking around.

Link Posted: 7/4/2005 10:12:18 PM EDT
I was kicking around the idea of using the Winchester, DWM, the old FN, or Mauser logo, or maybe something like that Mattel M16 logo.

I'll go for the Mauser banner, kal 5.56, and the colored H&K logos for safe, semi, and auto on a zero percent I finish to 100% done. Once a project gun, always a project gun.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 12:26:22 AM EDT
The Mattel idea is one I've been kicking around - that would be a good one; you could really get 'em going at the range with that one!

One thing someone else said here is in error - when a private citizen, as opposed to a commercially licensed manufacturer, completes a lower, there is no requirement to put a serial number or any other marking on it. The ATF suggests that some kind of identifying mark be put on it so that it may be identified if stolen, but again there is no requirement for an individual to do so.

The ATF has the power to require licensing of manufacturers as well as set and enforce rules for them because of congress' power to regulate interstate commerce. You, as an individual citizen, are not engaging in commerce when you build your own gun, so they have no jurisdiction over you unless you violate some explicit statute such as the NFA. That's why you can build a semiauto but not a full-auto gun, (9th Circuit notwithstanding).
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 11:40:06 AM EDT
I would engrave this before Colt

Link Posted: 7/13/2005 1:40:29 PM EDT
I do not care if this is not legal, but let us all agree that this is dishonest. I find it far more injurious to a mans reputation to be dishonest then to know he did something not legal.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 5:40:11 PM EDT
Why not do a "faux" gun, with a totally made up "tongue-in-cheek" manufacturer name? I would love to be a mouse in your pocket when the blowhards try to make up stories about it at gunshows and ranges to prove they know more than they actually do.

More than just mildly entertaining, imho.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 9:54:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Even if it wasn't illegal due to Copyright or Trademark infringement, I am not sure the BATFE would like it very much. I know they are touchy about defacing serial numbers or manufacturers ids on factory produced firearms. I wouldn't be surprised if they would consider what you are talking about as something akin to counterfieting. Definitely I would consult them for a ruling before you do anything that might be questionable.





You're not from around here are you?
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 11:44:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 3-4CAV:
Why not do a "faux" gun, with a totally made up "tongue-in-cheek" manufacturer name? I would love to be a mouse in your pocket when the blowhards try to make up stories about it at gunshows and ranges to prove they know more than they actually do.

More than just mildly entertaining, imho.



Cult, Coat, Cort, Celt, Cunt, just a few examples for you.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:45:20 PM EDT
I talked to the ATF at the last SHOT show and asked them about this very subject. You can put anything you want on the lower. I had an old EA lower that was somewhat worn and had raised letter logo so I ground of the raised letters, left the serial # alone which was stamped anyway, and had " Property of US Govt" engraved on the side and "Restricted" on the other side. To be on the safe side I also engraved the original company name up by the safety selector. I also put a custom logo above the "Property of US Govt". I thought about putting the Colt logo there but my engraving company wouldn't do that because its a registered trademark. Any reputable engraver won't engrave a registered trademark.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 6:03:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Parrandero:

Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Even if it wasn't illegal due to Copyright or Trademark infringement, I am not sure the BATFE would like it very much. I know they are touchy about defacing serial numbers or manufacturers ids on factory produced firearms. I wouldn't be surprised if they would consider what you are talking about as something akin to counterfieting. Definitely I would consult them for a ruling before you do anything that might be questionable.



here



Where is "around here", I am from Texas.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:59:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Szurgot:
Putting a colt logo on a lower, doesnt make it a colt. Dont be a poser.

Think of a custom logo, and put that on there. It will look original.
Be a leader, not a follower.

Lecture over


jesus, just based on the above comment, you oughta engrave colt on both sides, forge sam colt's signature on the stock and have the logo tatooed on both cheeks of your ass!
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 7:16:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 9:58:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

He probably meant new to AR15.com. We've had numerous fights discussions for the legality of markings on lowers previously.
Who was having lowers marked "For Civilian Use Only"? I thought about getting one, but my poor ffl might be kind of at that.



Superior Arms


WIZZO
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 5:43:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 12:26:33 PM EDT
how easy would it be to engrave through the annodizing anyway? You may need to refinish it after your done...
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 10:21:30 PM EDT
According to ATF Online Firearms FAQs any engraving on the firearm (ie lower receiver) has to be done by a licensed gunsmith
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 4:02:28 AM EDT
So if I want to have something engraved on the ejection port side of my mag well (opposite side of the SN), it HAS to be done by a licensed gunsmith?
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 12:50:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2005 12:54:47 PM EDT by boltcatch]
Chill, people, you can put whatever the fuck you want on your AR-15, or your T-shirt, or your dog, or whatever. It's your shit, and it's a free country.

You just cant SELL rifles, t-shirts, or pets with people's trademarks or logos on them, or otherwise profit from them.


As for the engraving having to be done by a gunsmith -- I don't give a rat's ass what the BATF says about that. That's fucking ridiculous; again, it's my weapon, and if I want to engrave shit on it, I can (assuming I'm not destroying required markings or putting on a different SN, etc.). In any event, they have a bad habit of arbitrarily telling people they have to do things without having any legislation or authorization to back it up.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 1:40:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ironaria:
According to ATF Online Firearms FAQs any engraving on the firearm (ie lower receiver) has to be done by a licensed gunsmith



BS
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:18:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 12:19:15 PM EDT by Big-Bore]

Originally Posted By ironaria:
According to ATF Online Firearms FAQs any engraving on the firearm (ie lower receiver) has to be done by a licensed gunsmith



This is my understanding. If you take your lower in for engraving and they do it while you wait, they do not need to be a licensed GS because you are in possession of the lower the full time and it has not "changed hands." If you do leave the weapon in their possession, then they are taking delivery of the firearm and they should hold an FFL and it would have to be logged into their bound book (that is why GSs need an FFL). The same if you are shipping your lower to someone. You can only ship your lower across state lines if the receiving party is a FFL holder or the lower is being shipped back to the owner. That is where the licensed GS comes in to play.

Anyway, that is how I understand things to be.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:18:31 PM EDT

it has not "changed hands."


since in MY state, theres no registration or paperwork required when 'transferring' a firearm, i can leave it with whomever i please...

im sorry for you guys in the occupied territories...

david
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:34:04 AM EDT
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