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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:38:34 AM EST
I know, I know, this is another one of those which one is better threads, but seriously though, I have always thought of Armalite as a notch above Bushmaster. Both are great gun makers no doubt, but doesnt Armalite go the extra mile???
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 6:40:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 6:44:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jivana108:
I know, I know, this is another one of those which one is better threads, but seriously though, I have always thought of Armalite as a notch above Bushmaster. Both are great gun makers no doubt, but doesnt Armalite go the extra mile???



What SPECIFICALLY gave you that idea??
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 6:44:36 AM EST
I'd consider them about equal, a little bit under Colt.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 6:45:06 AM EST
I personally think so. I just like armalite, though, so I can't really say that one is better. BTW Rusty, how can you call BS on a question?
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 6:48:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar15zams:
I personally think so. I just like armalite, though, so I can't really say that one is better. BTW Rusty, how can you call BS on a question?



Because it's a BS question designed to draw a negative response.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:08:38 AM EST
Im sorry man, I did not ask the question trying to get any negative responses. I am purely going off what I have seen and felt myself. If you pick up an Armalite and look it over and play with it, then pick up a Bushmaster and do the same thing, I just felt in my opinion that the Armalite just felt like a more rugged, higher quality weapon. It seems like Armalite barrels were a higher standard all together too.... Now dont get me wrong, I OWN a Bushmaster and love it to death, but I have been keeping an eye on Armalites lately and was just curious what the common feelings were. Sorry if I offended you Rusty.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:15:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 8:31:23 AM EST by scottryan]

Originally Posted By Jivana108:
I know, I know, this is another one of those which one is better threads, but seriously though, I have always thought of Armalite as a notch above Bushmaster. Both are great gun makers no doubt, but doesnt Armalite go the extra mile???



Completely false. Bushmaster offers everything Armalite does as far as spec conponents and in addition, the following...

Milspec barrels with 4150 steel and chrome lined and 5.56 chambers
Lower that is RDIAS ready.
Dry lube in buffer tube
Government profile barrels


And what is the that stupid front site Armalite uses with the set screws?

When considering quality/most milspec it goes like this.....

1. Colt military
2. Colt commerical/Bushmaster (each brand has it's own quirks so I can't put one above the other)
3. Armalite
4. Rock River
5. Olympic


This is taking into consideration that all the rifles are assembled equally and not by a monkey.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:31:07 AM EST
I see. Thanks for clarifying that. This is why I asked the retorical question because here is how I had always thought the totem pole layed.....

1.Colt
2.Armalite
3.Bushmaster
4.Rock River
5.Olympic
6.DPMS
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:37:01 AM EST
Colt and BMI are THE best around IMHO.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:37:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:41:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By scottryan:
Completely false. Bushmaster offers everything Armalite does and in addition, the following...



Everything?
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:50:58 AM EST
Whatever you do decide to get, DON'T SHOOT IT UNDER WATER
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:51:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:55:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By scottryan:
When considering quality/most milspec it goes like this.....

1. Colt military
2. Colt commerical/Bushmaster (each brand has it's own quirks so I can't put one above the other)
3. Armalite
4. Rock River
5. Olympic



Is being "most milspec" like being almost a Navy SEAL?

How about LMT? Did the, now obsolete, Colt rifles with large FCG pins and front pivot screws make your list?
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:55:08 AM EST
YES!

And BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED!
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:57:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By scottryan:
When considering quality/most milspec it goes like this.....

1. Colt military
2. Colt commerical/Bushmaster (each brand has it's own quirks so I can't put one above the other)
3. Armalite
4. Rock River
5. Olympic



Olympic has NO spec. Each of their shit bombs is a 100% unique lop of shit.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:57:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By Jivana108:
I know, I know, this is another one of those which one is better threads, but seriously though, I have always thought of Armalite as a notch above Bushmaster. Both are great gun makers no doubt, but doesnt Armalite go the extra mile???



Completely false. Bushmaster offers everything Armalite does and in addition, the following...

Milspec barrels with 4150 steel and chrome lined and 5.56 chambers
Lower that is RDIAS ready.
Dry lube in buffer tube
Government profile barrels


And what is the that stupid front site Armalite uses with the set screws?

When considering quality/most milspec it goes like this.....

1. Colt military
2. Colt commerical/Bushmaster (each brand has it's own quirks so I can't put one above the other)
3. Armalite
4. Rock River
5. Olympic



Armalite has chrome line and chrome 5.56 chambers !!!
armalite is more milspec then COLT !!!!



ARMALITE !!!!
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:59:41 AM EST
Fellas, fellas, Im sorry. I didnt realize this would turn into a shit stink fest. My bad.
Moderators if you feel it necessary go ahead and delete this thread. I honestly did not mean for this thread to go this route.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:02:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By Jivana108:
I know, I know, this is another one of those which one is better threads, but seriously though, I have always thought of Armalite as a notch above Bushmaster. Both are great gun makers no doubt, but doesnt Armalite go the extra mile???



Completely false. Bushmaster offers everything Armalite does and in addition, the following...

Milspec barrels with 4150 steel and chrome lined and 5.56 chambers
Lower that is RDIAS ready.
Dry lube in buffer tube
Government profile barrels


And what is the that stupid front site Armalite uses with the set screws?

When considering quality/most milspec it goes like this.....

1. Colt military
2. Colt commerical/Bushmaster (each brand has it's own quirks so I can't put one above the other)
3. Armalite
4. Rock River
5. Olympic



I pretty much agree with this except that BM doesn't offer a midlength. Plus he didn't really mention milspec in the original post.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:02:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jivana108:
Fellas, fellas, Im sorry. I didnt realize this would turn into a shit stink fest. My bad.
Moderators if you feel it necessary go ahead and delete this thread. I honestly did not mean for this thread to go this route.



YOU KNEW!
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:09:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By Jivana108:
Fellas, fellas, Im sorry. I didnt realize this would turn into a shit stink fest. My bad.
Moderators if you feel it necessary go ahead and delete this thread. I honestly did not mean for this thread to go this route.



YOU KNEW!



I certainly hope your joking.... Im not a troll and I did not intend for this to be a pissing match.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:17:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jivana108:

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By Jivana108:
Fellas, fellas, Im sorry. I didnt realize this would turn into a shit stink fest. My bad.
Moderators if you feel it necessary go ahead and delete this thread. I honestly did not mean for this thread to go this route.



YOU KNEW!



I certainly hope your joking.... Im not a troll and I did not intend for this to be a pissing match.





Don't take these guys too seriously! Dood, it's the internet!

COLT RULES!!!!! ARMALITE is sub-par compared to Colt!
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:21:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 8:25:18 AM EST by CJan_NH]

armalite is more milspec then COLT !!!!

I'm sorry, but something needs to be put to rest here once and for all. There is absolutely no such thing as a "milspec" or even "almost milspec" AR. The very term "milspec" as it relates to ARs has been bastardized into a bullshit marketing buzzword and nothing more.

Any manufacturer who regularly throws around terms like "milspec", "national match", "tactical", "SOCOM" etc should be looked upon with a weary eye at best. If you want to look purely at "milspec" construction materials used in ARs then Bushy, Colt, and LMT would get the nod.

-4150 steel
-MP tested
-Chrome-lined barrels and chambers (except for certain Bushy and Colt barrels)
-Proper finishes and sealcoating

Using the proper constructions materials is only half of the battle however. The processes used to manufacture, finish, and most importantly inspect/test the finished parts is just as important as the parts themselves. I'll gladly take a properly assembled RRA for example, with it's "inferior" barrel steel over an AR built with "milspec" materials that was assenbled with questionable (or non-existent) QA procedures.

Anyone who looks primarily at specs and not build quality deserves whatever problems they get.

Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:21:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 8:23:31 AM EST by scottryan]

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By scottryan:


When considering quality/most milspec it goes like this.....

1. Colt military
2. Colt commerical/Bushmaster (each brand has it's own quirks so I can't put one above the other)
3. Armalite
4. Rock River
5. Olympic




Bullshit. Prove it.

Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one.


Only the Colt military is MilSpec.



5sub



Ok here is fact to prove you wrong....

1. Obviously Colt military is the most milspec
2. Colt Commerical/Bushmaster are the next. Fact: Colt comercial uses funny pins sizes, blocks in lowers and plastic buffers in some rifles. Fact: Bushmaster doesnt parkerize under the FSB and doesn't use millspec buffer tubes on carbines. Both of these small issues make these two about equal.
3. Armalite is further down because fact----> they don't have a 4150 military barrel, use a FSB with setscrews, and have all the non-milspec componet parts a Bushmaster has.
4. Rock River is futher down because the have all the non-spec componets listed above and FACT: They do not have a bufffer tube with dry lube, the upper receiver doesn't have dry lube, no metal buttstock door, 4140 barrels
5. Olympic is further yet down as they have all the non-spec parts listed above and they do not have chrome barrels.

Nice try but you are wrong.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:25:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By tooly:


Armalite has chrome line and chrome 5.56 chambers !!!
armalite is more milspec then COLT !!!!



ARMALITE !!!!



But they dont make true military barrels. You need to reread my post.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:27:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Vector_Joe:

I pretty much agree with this except that BM doesn't offer a midlength. Plus he didn't really mention milspec in the original post.




That wasn't the point of my post. I am not talking about configuration. I am talking about the quality and milspec of components used in the rifle.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:31:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 8:33:52 AM EST by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
I'm sorry, but something needs to be put to rest here once and for all. There is absolutely no such thing as a "milspec" or even "almost milspec" AR. The very term "milspec" as it relates to ARs has been bastardized into a bullshit marketing buzzword and nothing more.



Thank you...........have a beer.....

My current favorite is the 4140 vs. 4150 steel.....a metallurgist analyzing the metal composition would have to test EXTENSIVELY to find the different elements -- but the AR shooter knows he's got it though.



Link Posted: 10/28/2004 9:03:08 AM EST
Think Bushmaster has very slight edge over Armalite regarding AR15s, but then Armalite has AR10 so they don't have any advantages over each other...
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 9:08:31 AM EST
Ok so several posts have made the point that Colt Military model rifles are of course the highest quality, but can civilians get their hands on an actual Colt Military rifle?
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 9:12:46 AM EST
You guys need to remember that even where colt is concerned. The U.S. Govt. does not buy quality. They solicit bids and purchase the cheapest price.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 9:43:51 AM EST
Don't kill yourself trying to sort out which is better.

Like snakes?...get a Bushy

Like Lions?......Armalite

Horses?...........Colt is for you
They're all good, they are all rugged enough, accurate enough and will last you a lifetime with reasonable care.

Link Posted: 10/28/2004 9:49:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rusty69:
You guys need to remember that even where colt is concerned. The U.S. Govt. does not buy quality. They solicit bids and purchase the cheapest price.



Exactly!!!

The idea that "MILSPEC" is somehow the highest quality, is a joke. BTW, FN is MILSPEC too.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 9:49:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 9:50:27 AM EST by CJan_NH]

Originally Posted By Rusty69:
You guys need to remember that even where colt is concerned. The U.S. Govt. does not buy quality. They solicit bids and purchase the cheapest price.


But you need to remember that there is an exhaustive set of required QA protocols, procedures, and proofs necessary for said weapon to meet the required military standard.

Those of us who like using Colt parts in our builds like them because our bolts, carriers, barrels etc have been subjected to the very same testing, and bear the same proof marks, as their mil counterparts.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 11:05:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:

Originally Posted By Rusty69:
You guys need to remember that even where colt is concerned. The U.S. Govt. does not buy quality. They solicit bids and purchase the cheapest price.


But you need to remember that there is an exhaustive set of required QA protocols, procedures, and proofs necessary for said weapon to meet the required military standard.

Those of us who like using Colt parts in our builds like them because our bolts, carriers, barrels etc have been subjected to the very same testing, and bear the same proof marks, as their mil counterparts.



Thats why I am getting a Colt this time. I had an Oly (POS IMHO) a few Bushies, liked them alot. This time its going to be a Colt. SAme reason as you, they are tested and proofed in the same place and manner the Govt issued ones are. And as I carried a few Colts while in the Army and used them in the most extreme of conditions, I can honestly say I trust them. Sure my bushies were great when I gave them civilian treatment, but I know for a fact my Colts have been there and done that with me. I know exactly what they can take. Not saying a Bushie cant do or take the same, I just have first hand experience with Colts in a tactical setting and it gave me the utmost confidence. And FWIW the H&R I had in basic training kicked ass. It took a beating there as well.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 11:13:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 11:15:41 AM EST
No not really no....
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 11:23:01 AM EST
I would say all three make equal quality ar's. However, Bushmaster and Armalite are part of our community. I don't just mean arfcom, but the black rifle community.

Colt just ain't there imo.

I will never buy a colt over one of the other two.

I own a Bushy -15 an armalit -10 and a RRA -15 (with a bushmaster ulw barrel).

All three rock.

TXL
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 11:28:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
I'm sorry, but something needs to be put to rest here once and for all. There is absolutely no such thing as a "milspec" or even "almost milspec" AR. The very term "milspec" as it relates to ARs has been bastardized into a bullshit marketing buzzword and nothing more.



Thank you...........have a beer.....

My current favorite is the 4140 vs. 4150 steel.....a metallurgist analyzing the metal composition would have to test EXTENSIVELY to find the different elements -- but the AR shooter knows he's got it though.




You're just jealous because my AR's barrel is 10 better than yours.





10 what's better than who?

Link Posted: 10/28/2004 12:12:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 12:17:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 1:07:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 1:15:41 PM EST by scottryan]
For those arguing that the US Gov solicits bids, buys cheap, and doesn't care about quality.....


I have one questions for you.



Are you going to come out and say an Aimpoint M68, Trijicon ACOG, or a KAC RAS is a cheap, low bid, questionable qualitity item?

Scott
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 4:00:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By scottryan:
For those arguing that the US Gov solicits bids, buys cheap, and doesn't care about quality.....


I have one questions for you.



Are you going to come out and say an Aimpoint M68, Trijicon ACOG, or a KAC RAS is a cheap, low bid, questionable qualitity item?

Scott




Are you going to say that the M60 and M73/M219 MGs were high quality items?

"Checkmate" M9 magazines?

"Cooper" M16 magazines?

"Sioux Industries" PASGT helmets?

There's a long sordid history of the US government buying crap for the armed forces, basing decisions on which Congressional district or special interest group will benefit rather than on whether or not the item is going to serve the troops well.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 4:25:04 PM EST
better finish yes quality no.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 4:31:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 4:35:27 PM EST by CJan_NH]

Originally Posted By QCMGR:

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:

Originally Posted By Rusty69:
You guys need to remember that even where colt is concerned. The U.S. Govt. does not buy quality. They solicit bids and purchase the cheapest price.


But you need to remember that there is an exhaustive set of required QA protocols, procedures, and proofs necessary for said weapon to meet the required military standard.

Those of us who like using Colt parts in our builds like them because our bolts, carriers, barrels etc have been subjected to the very same testing, and bear the same proof marks, as their mil counterparts.



You cannot inspect Quality into a product. ArmaLite builds to their own drawings. They build Quality into their product.


As a QA technician with SigArms I am well aware of what it takes to build a quality firearm.

Your comment about Armalite building quality into their product doesn't square with the reality of FSBs secured with woefully inadequate fasteners, improperly torqued barrel nuts, and improperly reamed barrels. These are all indicative of half-assed assembly, not to mention an inadequate QA program that allows these fuckups to be released to an unsuspecting public. Building to your own drawings is wonderful, but only if you follow up your assembly with the due diligence in QA that the customer deserves.

If your own personal experience has not yet given you the opportunity to observe some of these disturbing trends that are rampant with many AR manufacturers-including Armalite, then perhaps you may want to reevaluate your sample size and relevant experience before attempting to speak with authority on the matter of quality control within the firearms industry.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 4:39:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 4:54:18 PM EST
If only FN sold to us.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 5:06:32 PM EST
Sorry, but I gotta do this........

Link Posted: 10/28/2004 5:23:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 5:25:48 PM EST by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:

armalite is more milspec then COLT !!!!

I'm sorry, but something needs to be put to rest here once and for all. There is absolutely no such thing as a "milspec" or even "almost milspec" AR. The very term "milspec" as it relates to ARs has been bastardized into a bullshit marketing buzzword and nothing more.

Any manufacturer who regularly throws around terms like "milspec", "national match", "tactical", "SOCOM" etc should be looked upon with a weary eye at best. If you want to look purely at "milspec" construction materials used in ARs then Bushy, Colt, and LMT would get the nod.

-4150 steel
-MP tested
-Chrome-lined barrels and chambers (except for certain Bushy and Colt barrels)
-Proper finishes and sealcoating

Using the proper constructions materials is only half of the battle however. The processes used to manufacture, finish, and most importantly inspect/test the finished parts is just as important as the parts themselves. I'll gladly take a properly assembled RRA for example, with it's "inferior" barrel steel over an AR built with "milspec" materials that was assenbled with questionable (or non-existent) QA procedures.

Anyone who looks primarily at specs and not build quality deserves whatever problems they get.




Quite possibly the most intelligent argument I ever saw in debating AR's
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 5:28:51 PM EST
I got to see my first RRA in action about two weeks ago and after 5 rounds it needs a new extractor and the gunwas brand new. My bud has had about 6 or 7 bushmasters which have always failed hardcore while we were doing or little CQB practice sessions with alot of brass flying while I have managed to keep up my Oly with ten times the rounds through it and replacing no parts. I wouldn't traded my oly for a new bushmaster. My Armalite won't even eat what my Oly will!
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 5:29:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 5:52:14 PM EST by QCMGR]
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